NFL News NFL Cap Increases by $22M for 2025

[Real fan 02]

I think the problem of developing WRs in NE was a multi-headed problem: Bill's scoring system of WRs coming out, valuing coachability over athleticism, JMcDs system geared to run at a Tom Brady level, and Brady's late career lack of patience with young guys not being able to keep up. Now, to your point, it's set to be run at Maye's level, and everyone starts at the ground floor.

You summed it up best. That Eardhart-Perkins system brady mastered it and made it the "brady" offense. Yes, Bill was heavily reliant on coaching over Athletic ability. In the NFL you need both. Being able to be coached and have the physical talent. The talents are what gets you to the NFL the Coach ability is what will keep you. I'm eager to see how the offense takes shape.. I bet most people don't really realize Drake had over 400 rushing yards last season..

 

[TheRainMaker]

The nba does not have a hard cap…

The nfl has the hardest cap of the 3 major leagues…

I mixed up the term.

The NBA is on the hook for contracts signed. NFL has outs.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Ok got it.. so we Don't have the assumed amount of 150 in real cap space?

They have somewhere around $130M to $135M. Spotrac and OTC have it closer to the former, Patscap closer to the latter.

Regardless of the exact number they start with, it'll be about $30M more than any other team.

 

[Real fan 02]

I mixed up the term.

The NBA is on the hook for contracts signed. NFL has outs.

It's said the NBAPA is the strong union of all the major sports...

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think the problem of developing WRs in NE was a multi-headed problem: Bill's scoring system of WRs coming out, valuing coachability over athleticism, JMcDs system geared to run at a Tom Brady level, and Brady's late career lack of patience with young guys not being able to keep up. Now, to your point, it's set to be run at Maye's level, and everyone starts at the ground floor.

Yep.

Amazing how from 2000 until 2023 they drafted ONLY FIVE WRs in the top two rounds.

Deion Branch
Bethel Johnson
Chad Jackson
Aaron Dobson
Tyquan Thornton

Additionally over those 24 years, after their first couple of years only five home -grown WRs (Branch, Givens, JE11, Dobson, Malcolm Mitchell, and Pop Douglas) showed any potential for long-term success.

I put Dobson in there as if it wasn't for his foot injury he would have (projecting) a 59 catch, 836, 5 TD year as a rookie. He would have been the talk of the town. Ultimately his body and mind were not built for the NFL life.

Brady's demanding standards and the complexity of the offense had a lot to do with rookie WR success rate but they clearly didn't think rookies could make it. It took a smart, special talent like Malcom Mitchell to break through.

 

[mgteich]

One key thing to remember is that the Patriots’ roster is already full of guys that won’t actually make the roster, but are taking up $1M or so per player of cap space right now. As they are replaced by veterans, you’re effectively able to shave $1M off of the cap hits of those acquisitions because those players’ cap hits are displacing someone else already rostered.

This means that their $128M or so of cap space is a bit deceiving, as many mid-level players they sign will have first year cap hits of around $2-3M but will displace someone else’s $1M so they will only lower the cap space number by $1-2M.

This is in contrast to other teams who often have a lot of cap space but 45 or less rostered players, so the effect is not as significant.

Yes, every player signed has a NET cost. The easy way to consider this is to subtract $1M off the 2025 cap hit of a signing.
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Personally, I don't see any of this as misleading. Yes, it costs nothing to replace a $1M with a $1M player, or to replace a $3M player with a $3M player. And, yes, a $15M player ONLY has a net cost $14M.

 

[Real fan 02]

Yep.

Amazing how from 2000 until 2023 they drafted ONLY FIVE WRs in the top two rounds.

Deion Branch
Bethel Johnson
Chad Jackson
Aaron Dobson
Tyquan Thornton

Additionally over those 24 years, after their first couple of years only five home -grown WRs (Branch, Givens, JE11, Dobson, Malcolm Mitchell, and Pop Douglas) showed any potential for long-term success.

I put Dobson in there as if it wasn't for his foot injury he would have (projecting) a 59 catch, 836, 5 TD year as a rookie. He would have been the talk of the town. Ultimately his body and mind were not built for the NFL life.

Brady's demanding standards and the complexity of the offense had a lot to do with rookie WR success rate but they clearly didn't think rookies could make it. It took a smart, special talent like Malcom Mitchell to break through.

It's alarming. Of those 5 only branch was the guy who really had a nice career here and connected with brady.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It's alarming. Of those 5 only branch was the guy who really had a nice career here and connected with brady.

It goes without saying the BB era NEP teams' philosophy was to invest and to build from the inside out - OL and DL especially.

You can make the same case for drafting high-quality CBs. They just didn't do it often or well.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Yep.

Amazing how from 2000 until 2023 they drafted ONLY FIVE WRs in the top two rounds.

Deion Branch
Bethel Johnson
Chad Jackson
Aaron Dobson
Tyquan Thornton

Additionally over those 24 years, after their first couple of years only five home -grown WRs (Branch, Givens, JE11, Dobson, Malcolm Mitchell, and Pop Douglas) showed any potential for long-term success.

I put Dobson in there as if it wasn't for his foot injury he would have (projecting) a 59 catch, 836, 5 TD year as a rookie. He would have been the talk of the town. Ultimately his body and mind were not built for the NFL life.

Brady's demanding standards and the complexity of the offense had a lot to do with rookie WR success rate but they clearly didn't think rookies could make it. It took a smart, special talent like Malcom Mitchell to break through.

That’s why I’ve been saying that Bill being bad at drafting WR’s is overblown.

He rarely does it.

 

[Steve102]

Brady's demanding standards and the complexity of the offense had a lot to do with rookie WR success rate but they clearly didn't think rookies could make it. It took a smart, special talent like Malcom Mitchell to break through.

I think this is a real valid point. Bill certainly preferred to take WRs later in the draft. As a rule, they didn't draft a chit ton. From 2000-2022, here's the list:

2000: none
2001: none
2002: R2 Deion Branch R7 David Givens
2003: R2 Bethel Johnson
2004: R4 P.K. Sam
2005: none
2006: R2 Chad Jackson
2007: none
2008: R5 Matthew Slater
2009: R3 Brandon Tate R7 Julian Edelman
2010: R3 Taylor Price
2011: none
2012: R7 Jeremy Ebert
2013: R2 Aaron Dobson R4 Josh Boyce
2014: R7 Jeremy Gallon
2015: none
2016: R4 Malcom Mitchell R7 Devin Lucien
2017: none
2018: R6 Braxton Berrios
2019: R1 N'Keal Harry
2020: none
2021: R7 Tre Nixon
2022: R2 Tyquon thornton
2023: R6 Kayshon Boutte R6 Pop Douglas

I think you can throw out Slate,. he's a career STer. I think you can throw out Jules, too. They had no idea what they were going to do with him, other than he was a football player. Looking at the rest, that's really poor development, and even poorer recognition of talent UNLESS you just look at it thru the lens of what you said, that rookies don't get it. Belichick has said that rookies come in and have no idea, and perhaps he just didn't want to even bother with them. It's almost as if he instead opted for vets who had shown the aptitude to grasp NFL level offenses, had the work ethic to make it and a proven ability to be coached.

It's mind blowing to me, because you could look at the opposite side of the ball and their success with guys in the secondary and just scratch your head.

To @TheRainMaker point, they certainly didn't draft a lot of guys to man the position.

 

[Real fan 02]

It goes without saying the BB era NEP teams' philosophy was to invest and to build from the inside out - OL and DL especially.

You can make the same case for drafting high-quality CBs. They just didn't do it often or well.

You absolutely correct... on the CBs Duke Dawson, Cyrus Jones, Darius butler, I remember I met Terrance Wheatley one time when he was here.. he told me that it's so demanding and mentally draining to play for Bill.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

One key thing to remember is that the Patriots’ roster is already full of guys that won’t actually make the roster, but are taking up $1M or so per player of cap space right now. As they are replaced by veterans, you’re effectively able to shave $1M off of the cap hits of those acquisitions because those players’ cap hits are displacing someone else already rostered.

From the start of the league year through cutdowns, only the top 51 salaries count against the salary cap. So, for example, the FB they signed recently counts for essentially $0 against the salary cap. [If they gave him a signing bonus, that does count against the cap.]

 

[RobertWeathers]

That’s why I’ve been saying that Bill being bad at drafting WR’s is overblown.

He rarely does it.

Not only that but the league wide success rate drafting starters in the 2nd round is 33%.

Pats were 25% on a smaller sample.

 

[Triumph]

Chase had 1,600 yards... our entire WR'S combined. I want a complete team. We have the QB, we have the coaching now get the entire roster up to NFL standards.

The Pats would be in better shape if those 2 dunces just took Mconkey last draft.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You absolutely correct... on the CBs Duke Dawson, Cyrus Jones, Darius butler, I remember I met Terrance Wheatley one time when he was here.. he told me that it's so demanding and mentally draining to play for Bill.

What does it say when the of the top 5 home grown CBs in the NEP era 2/3rd were UFAs.

1. Asante
2. Malcolm UFA
3. Gonzo ...and climbing
4. Jonathan Jones UFA
5. JC Jax UFA

@Steve102 ...such a crapshoot.

 

[Triumph]

Yep.

Amazing how from 2000 until 2023 they drafted ONLY FIVE WRs in the top two rounds.

Deion Branch
Bethel Johnson
Chad Jackson
Aaron Dobson
Tyquan Thornton

Additionally over those 24 years, after their first couple of years only five home -grown WRs (Branch, Givens, JE11, Dobson, Malcolm Mitchell, and Pop Douglas) showed any potential for long-term success.

I put Dobson in there as if it wasn't for his foot injury he would have (projecting) a 59 catch, 836, 5 TD year as a rookie. He would have been the talk of the town. Ultimately his body and mind were not built for the NFL life.

Brady's demanding standards and the complexity of the offense had a lot to do with rookie WR success rate but they clearly didn't think rookies could make it. It took a smart, special talent like Malcom Mitchell to break through.

Harry Karry was a # 1.

# 1 in relation to 5hit.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Harry Karry was a # 1.

# 1 in relation to 5hit.

LOL

 

[Triumph]

LOL

Poor Brady was forced to play with him.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Poor Brady was forced to play with him.

Yea i've cancelled him.

 

[TheRainMaker]

What does it say when the of the top 5 home grown CBs in the NEP era 2/3rd were UFAs.

1. Asante
2. Malcolm UFA
3. Gonzo ...and climbing
4. Jonathan Jones UFA
5. JC Jax UFA

@Steve102 ...such a crapshoot.

This is going to shock people with this list. My top 5 drafted/undrafted CB's in the BB era:

1. JC Jackson. He lead the league in INT's and pass breakups since his time as a Patriot. Made the Pro Bowl and was 2nd team All Pro in 2021. He was a very good CB before he opted for surgery right before the season he signed with LA. That was a big mistake for him waiting so long. Then the Chargers used him as the scapegoat when the team doctors botched his rehab clearing him way too early. I didn't need to be a Doctor to figure that out when Mac Jones took just as long on sprain as JC later did surgery. He could barely run and was never the same.

2. Asante Samuel. He was good as a reserve in 2003 and 2004, but he was horrible as a starter in 2005 regularly getting torched by the better WR's in the league. 2006 and 2007 were his breakout years. He'd easily be #1 and have the keys to the city if weren't for a few plays late in SB42.

3. Christian Gonzalez. Made 2nd team All Pro in his first full season as a starter. He will probably end up #1 soon.

4. Malcolm Butler. He was really solid as Revis' replacement in 2015. His biggest issue was that he couldn't make plays. He had the Ellis Hobbs syndrome where he'd be in position to break up a pass or even get an INT, but the opposing player would outmuscle him for the ball.

5. Logan Ryan. Very solid #2 CB. His best moment was getting flagged for the crotch crab celebration on an INT return for a TD.

Honorable mention: Jonathan Jones.