Boy, LD, you really ARE pissed off about this topic. Given the apparent state of the OL (which I think will be pretty good by October......barring injuries of course), and you have a RIGHT to be; NO one is happy about the OL on this date, but you simply CANNOT predict injuries and sickness. You cannot judge Bill's team building and his choices of OT's until he gets a healthy group together. The 2 trades yesterday proves he is at least TRYING. (at least to me). Can you at least admit that the injuries and sickness has been a CRITICAL factor in the OL's performance?
Thanks Ken and sorry for belated answer. Not that it matters but still to show respect.
As far as building tackle depth im comfortable with what i wrote. It has nothing to do with the unpredictable (injuries etc - which you better account for anyway) and all to do with lack of investment, urgency (on time decision making etc) and poor coaching (incl choices) after Dante. The mere facts of how little they invested in this critical position and how poorly they have grown own talent says enough.
Anyhow let's look, with perfect 20-20 hindsight, at what Bill was looking at to build his OL prior to the draft (warning - some of this I have stated in other posts) He was very solid in 4 starting positions with Brown, Strange, Andrews. and Owenu. So the obvious goal this off season was to come out of camp with a starting RT, a decent swing back up, improve the depth of the interior OL which should include finding a guy who can replace DAndrews in 2 or 3 years. Can we agree on that?
I dont need the hindsight, Ken, everything i posted on this topic is on record. In principle we could agree here but i would never call Brown a solid option simply bc of his inconsistency (lack of focus on the field, weight issues, injuries..). So if you're willing to bet on him you better have a good backup/swing option.
FA- on my car ride today this factoid came out of my radio and I found it interesting. I THINK it was WEEI. Walter Football rated the top OT tackles in FA. The top one was Orlando Brown Jr. He got a 4 yr $65MM deal, Next was Mclinchey who got a 5 year $84MM deal. Then they mentioned a guy who I forgot, but he got a similar deal just a bit lower, and #4 and #5 on this list (and this is what made it interesting were Elumanor and Wynn.
So basically there were 3 guys out there that, if healthy would improve your team and probably got overpaid because of the lack of OT numbers this FA season , and after that you get Elumanor and Wynn types. In other words unless you were willing to break the bank on an OT, FA additions were a shot in the dark. And the Pats TOOK a shot with Anderson.
I really dont recommend relying on WEEI or WF if you're looking for facts : )
Unlike most FA this one actually had some choice at starting tackle and the prices were not too steep esp for NE cap situation (with loads of future cap to spare). Among tackles with enough starting tackle experience, prime age and solid play you had at least O.Brown, McGlinchey, Taylor, McGary and Dillard.
Taylor went for 4y/80/60g/40fg (fg=fully guaranteed) which is indeed steep considering his performance but guess who didn't find it too expensive? The SB winners with QB that many people think doesn't need OL. So the team with the best QB (very mobile, doesn't mind to play out of pocket etc) and the team that already invested huge resources in OL last season didn't mind paying the price. Despite going into tighter cap stretch. They learned their lesson a few years ago didn't they.
Ok, back to facts: McGlinchey went for 5y/87.5/52.5g/35fg which is steep but well below top of the market while cap is expanding every year by 5-10%. Brown went well below expected contract at 4y/64/31g. McGary and Dillard went for peanuts in starting tackle terms with limited commitment at c. 3y/30/15g.
Apart from Dillard these are young experienced dependable players wo serious inj history.
Pats went after Dillard - prob most talented but also most injured - and i liked the choice despite inj q. The fact that they lost to Titans at relatively low price tag is just beyond me. They clearly identified the need and the quality they need to go after yet left the bidding for starting tackle (who can play both sides) at 3y/29 with only 10 fully guaranteed ??
After that they signed Reiff for 1/5/4.15g - 34yo vet who didint play a full season since 2020 and his play deteriorated significantly over last 3 years. Who could've predicted how that could play out?
I liked the Anderson pick up as a swing tackle and in combo with Dillard that would be good enough for me. Was that asking too much?
There were some other options as well (DAL tendered Steele only at second round tender f.e.)..
They invested #15 in pocket QB, they have a ton of cap (easy to borrow from the future), yet they refuse to give him half the protection the top teams with much less cap and mobile QBs are giving them?
And if you think next FA will have better options at better prices - you better think again (or see for yourself).
Draft - The consensus prior to the draft was there were 2 MAYBE 3 OT's that were worth a first round pick. In the draft 4 were taken ALL before the Pats #15 pick. The Pats chose a consensus top 10 pick who fell. In the second they got a guy many thought would be a first rounder. In the 3rd they got a mystery man, who has, so far, shown he was WELL worth the pick. In the 4th they got a kicker and the potential depth guy at C/G and neither has proven their worth SO FAR.
Yeah, I wanted an OT in the draft just like everyone else. I knew about the Pitt guy and the Maryland guy, the Syracuse guy, etc. But at that point EVERYONE is a shot in the dark and Bill or his draft team thought they could get a bargain making Sow an OT, knowing it would take a few years.
I was very happy with Pats Draft and almost prayed they dont go tackle bc none of them was worth a 1st round pick let alone IMO and i wouldn't bet on anyone to solve Pats starting tackle issue in 2023. I also liked they went heavy on OL on Day3 to groom them behind solid starters.
I was especially happy they punted on tackle bc next Draft is probably best tackle class in a long time. Deep and incredible quality at the top.
But im not getting my hopes up - Bill punted on two very good OT classes recently..
PLUS at the time of the draft Bill had a ROOMFUL of OT prospects who at one point or another flashed competence. Murry, Stuber, Anderson, McDermott, and a couple more that I cannot recall at the moment. Why wouldn't you expect at least ONE of them would fill one of the roles we needed. But during camp ALL of them lost at least some time to injury limiting their development and find out out who would stand out and win the 2 jobs we need at OT. During FA and the draft you COULDN'T predict what has happened to the Pats. You make those decision based on the knowledge you have AT THE TIME!
Sorry, i had to laugh here. Can you send me one flash of competent starting tackle by Murray, Stueber and McDermott? Combined?
It has nothing to do with injuries - M&M were drafted low as possible backups at best or decent camp bodies and Murray is DT converted to training camp/PS guard.
Anderson - who missed all preseason and was likely signed as top swing tackle - is now the only chance Pats have at serviceable starting RT presuming they will keep being reluctant to move Onwenu there.
Don't you think Bill would have selected differently IF he knew in advance about the OL injury situation? But that is the beauty of 20-20 hindsight; isn't it.
no
I agree that Bill doesn't often go after OT's early. I THINK he believes that colleges are turning quality OT's at the same rate as WR and you can find gems all over the draft.
you seriously believe this?
I also believe, ( and this is just between you and me) that Bill believes this was never going to be a team that would contend for a superbowl. Contend for a playoff spot....maybe, but not a trophy. It will be next year when he has a potful of money (top 5 IIRC) and there will be a better class of OT's to choose from.
maybe. but what happened to trying to build best team possible, best competition for TC possible etc. You never know who is SB contender in March. Who bet on Philly outside of Philly a year ago? With OL like Philly or KC and some health this Patriots team with BB as HC might just be a contender. Now we might never know. And its just one position for a few M of cap more..
btw - due to punting on improving this years team in FA - Pats are #1 in Cap space in both 2024 and 2025. BY FAR.
and make no mistake - they will “overpay“ many players not just OT : )
They will prob need to get two starting tackles next year (unless Anderson explodes). Unfortunately the OT market doesn't look too promising. One could hope for a trade - but since that almost def includes 1st rd pick im not too hopeful - esp if i want to remain hopeful for a 1st round tackle in 2024 Draft..
Yes, the future of this team looks promising, but it could've started this year. Mac deserved it with what he showed his first year and the rest of the team deserved it as well esp those who might not be here when the fun begins..
-.-
