My question to those ready to crown the Bills

[sb1]

Wrong. From 2001-2019, afce is right in the middle of the pack. Even when you subtract the Patriots. Another fallacy.

not really. The AFC East (Least?) minus the Pats has been absolute trash over a sustained period of time. The number of head coaches and starting QBs that other Least teams have churned through over the last 2 decades vs ours says it all. Until this year and with the exception of the Cassel season no other Least team was a serious threat to us in the division and for good reason.

 

[juny]

not really. The AFC East (Least?) minus the Pats has been absolute trash over a sustained period of time. The number of head coaches and starting QBs that other Least teams have churned through over the last 2 decades vs ours says it all. Until this year and with the exception of the Cassel season no other Least team was a serious threat to us in the division and for good reason.

The AFC East isnt as terrible as everyone thinks.

The Myth of the Easy AFC East, the Definitive Guide | Patriots Dynasty

 

[sb1]

The AFC East isnt as terrible as everyone thinks.

The Myth of the Easy AFC East, the Definitive Guide | Patriots Dynasty

Eh I don’t think cherry picking like “Chad Pennington was pretty good for the Jets and that means the gap between us and them is closer than you’d think” is a very compelling argument.

The division has stunk. Our rivals have been an organizational mess a lot more often than not. Coach, QB churn like I said and even GM too. There has never been a time when the Pats had to build a roster to counter a rival in their division like other teams have. Sure other teams can pick us off here and there but as far as consistency... the competition hasn’t been there. No other division in the NFL is like that on a consistent basis from year to year.

Where the haters are wrong is trying to connect an inferior division to the Patriots success or that they’re only good because they are in the AFC East. If that was the case then they’d be exposed very quickly in the playoffs. Pats this century have won 9 AFC championships, 6 Super Bowld and only been one and done 3 times since 2001. So its obvious to me they are legit and would be no matter what division they are in.

 

[TheRainMaker]

There has never been a time when the Pats has to build a roster to counter a rival in their division like other teams have.

For the posters in denial thinking that AFC East was competitive, need to reread this sentence.

 

[TB_Helmet]

Eh I don’t think cherry picking like “Chad Pennington was pretty good for the Jets and that means the gap between us and them is closer than you’d think” is a very compelling argument.

The division has stunk. Our rivals have been an organizational mess a lot more often than not. Coach, QB churn like I said and even GM too. There has never been a time when the Pats has to build a roster to counter a rival in their division like other teams have. Sure other teams can pick us off here and there but as far as consistency... the competition hasn’t been there. No other division in the NFL is like that on a consistent basis from year to year.

Where the haters are wrong is trying to connect an inferior division to the Patriots success or that they’re only good because they are in the AFC East. If that was the case then they’d be exposed very quickly in the playoffs. Pats this century have won 9 AFC championships, 6 Super Bowld and only been one and done 3 times since 2001. So its obvious to me they are legit and would be no matter what division they are in.

I mean...the numbers don’t lie man. If you read that article it talks all about how the Bills/Jete/Fish hold up against most other “bottom 3” teams in the NFL. I agree there haven’t been any dominant QBs or anything, but W-L record is the final answer and the AFCE is definitely not the worst in that regard.

The only real argument you can make is that no other team in the AFCE really had a sustained run, it was just a lot of mediocrity. But that’s better than the dregs of the NFC North, AFC South, etc. Also probably due to having the Patriots in their division, where your team building is overly biased to beat a certain team but not to beat all teams.

 

[libra957]

I never bought into the Bills being legit. There's no reason why we shouldn't sweep them again, even with Stidham as our QB.

 

[Sicilian]

I never bought into the Bills being legit. There's no reason why we shouldn't sweep them again, even with Stidham as our QB.

Sweep is always tough inside a division (for most teams that don't have a HC/QB duo like we've had). Even with them, it was not unheard of to lose a game to the Jets or Dolphins in years they weren't nearly as good as the Bills were last year.

That said, where I'll agree with you is that there have been numerous seasons where one of the division rivals looks good for a year (maybe two, in the case of the 09/10 Jets), but none have been able to sustain it long term. Maybe the Bills have another good year, but going by recent history, the better money is on one of the Jets or Dolphins having a better season.

 

[Wozzy]

The Bills will be a dangerous team if Jacob Fromm can win the starting QB job and pass decently.

Josh Allen will potentially be a good player once Buffalo realizes he isn't a QB, the Pat's should give him a try at TE once he gets cut.

Fans latch on to running QB's who can't pass accurately from the pocket like Allen or Lamar Jackson, they're really good in the regular season, fantasy football and Tecmo Bowl... but in the real world not so much.

In the playoffs these QB's will face better defense's who can contain them to some degree and force them to beat them with his arm.

Tom Brady was arguably the worst running QB to ever play, and he is the greatest QB of all-time.

Passing IS the job... at least if your goal is to win Super Bowls.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

The Bills will be a dangerous team if Jacob Fromm can win the starting QB job and pass decently.

Josh Allen will potentially be a good player once Buffalo realizes he isn't a QB, the Pat's should give him a try at TE once he gets cut.

Fans latch on to running QB's who can't pass accurately from the pocket like Allen or Lamar Jackson, they're really good in the regular season, fantasy football and Tecmo Bowl... but in the real world not so much.

In the playoffs these QB's will face better defense's who can contain them to some degree and force them to beat them with his arm.

Tom Brady was arguably the worst running QB to ever play, and he is the greatest QB of all-time.

Passing IS the job... at least if your goal is to win Super Bowls.

Young, Wilson, Mahomes ... All pass first with great arm talent but all mobile that uses their legs to win SB's.

Game has changed. Very soon this all you'll see. Look at this years playoffs.

Speaking of ...

Also comparing Allen to Jackson is a big IDK, IDK .... The disrespect continues for a guy who lead the league in passing TDs and did things almost no modern QB has done ... Passing TD% and check out his age compared to the others on the list. Allen is a lot closer to Trubisky.

 

[Brewskies]

Arent, the Jets, going to be the top dog?

There fans think so, just ask them.


Go Pats

 

[Uptown]

The AFC East hasn’t been any worse than any other “bad division” since 2001 (absolutely, there were years where certain teams had dreadful seasons). It’s just that NE dominated the division/league unlike any other team in NFL history, for the longest stretch in NFL history. In no way am I insinuating BUF, MIA or NYJ would have been SB contenders, but if you remove NE from the that 20 year equation, who knows how things play out.

 

[Wozzy]

Young, Wilson, Mahomes ... All pass first with great arm talent but all mobile that uses their legs to win SB's.

Game has changed. Very soon this all you'll see. Look at this years playoffs.

Speaking of ...

Also comparing Allen to Jackson is a big IDK, IDK .... The disrespect continues for a guy who lead the league in passing TDs and did things almost no modern QB has done ... Passing TD% and check out his age compared to the others on the list. Allen is a lot closer to Trubisky. View attachment 27519

All QB's you named are "pass first," they can pass accurately. Nobody said the ability to run isn't a good thing, if you can't pass it's meaningless in the big (super bowl) picture.

Look at this year's playoffs? A year prior Tom Brady won, so you're saying the game changed over the course of one season... The game hasn't changed, prior to the invention of the forward pass all QB's did was run.

What makes Lamar Jackson dangerous beyond his incredible speed is scheme, Harbaugh and Roman have created an offense to make him efficient. He still isn't an accurate passer.

He ranked 26th in passing attempts for a reason, they protect him from himself. The Titans (playoff caliber defense) did a good job corralling him and forcing him to beat them from the pocket, made him play with a deficit... he threw 2 INT's and fumbled the ball away.

In two playoff games Lamar Jackson is 0-2, has thrown 3 INT's, fumbled it 4 times and completed 51% of his passes... but he's great in the regular season, in fantasy and Madden.

This year teams will have film on him and will have crafted defenses to stop the jumbo RPO offense they run. Someone will also get a hard lick on him and slow him down, when that time comes he'll be about as useful as Cam Newton with less athleticism.

 

[archstanton543]

Tom Brady was arguably the worst running QB to ever play, and he is the greatest QB of all-time.

Tom Brady is a freakin' gazelle compared to Drew Bledsoe, the actual worst running QB of all time.

 

[Wozzy]

Tom Brady is a freakin' gazelle compared to Drew Bledsoe, the actual worst running QB of all time.

Yeah, I don't understand all these fans getting a chubby over Stidham's ability to run, he's more mobile than Brady, but so is a zamboni... he's still not some burner.

He'll run for first downs, Matt Cassel did the same thing. It's his ability to pass that has me intrigued.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

All QB's you named are "pass first," they can pass accurately. Nobody said the ability to run isn't a good thing, if you can't pass it's meaningless in the big (super bowl) picture.

Look at this year's playoffs? A year prior Tom Brady won, so you're saying the game changed over the course of one season... The game hasn't changed, prior to the invention of the forward pass all QB's did was run.

What makes Lamar Jackson dangerous beyond his incredible speed is scheme, Harbaugh and Roman have created an offense to make him efficient. He still isn't an accurate passer.

He ranked 26th in passing attempts for a reason, they protect him from himself. The Titans (playoff caliber defense) did a good job corralling him and forcing him to beat them from the pocket, made him play with a deficit... he threw 2 INT's and fumbled the ball away.

In two playoff games Lamar Jackson is 0-2, has thrown 3 INT's, fumbled it 4 times and completed 51% of his passes... but he's great in the regular season, in fantasy and Madden.

This year teams will have film on him and will have crafted defenses to stop the jumbo RPO offense they run. Someone will also get a hard lick on him and slow him down, when that time comes he'll be about as useful as Cam Newton with less athleticism.

I'm sorry but this post reads like you just started watching football.

The game hasn't changed? Honestly this is a silly and ignorant statement. Football, basketball, hockey ... Yes the game has changed.

What do you say about shotgun/spread and how much that has increased? Up about 30-40%, maybe more depending on if you go back to 2000 or the 90's. RPO/Misdirection. Directly influenced from college. Putting the best athletes at QB. Directly influenced from high school college. Spacing. College.

So again saying the game hasn't changed is sticking your fingers in your ears and head in the sand.

Also from the first sentence in my post ... "All pass first" QB's but the players playing the position are a lot more athletic. Again this is a result of hs/college putting their best athletes at position.


Regarding Jackson he obviously has a ways to go passing but he's shattered almost everyone's expectations. Brought his team to the playoffs in his first 2 years and lead the league in TD passes. His team completely imploded this year in the playoffs as well. And he is the scheme. Doesn't take a genius to figure out how to make him work. He was successful running a variation of the EP in college and had no problems running Roman's.

You can get to the same place doing different things. Soon all we'll see is mobile QB's. But to deny that game hasn't changed is just ignorant and wrong. Again go watch other sports and you'll see the same thing.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

Like Brady, he will use the chip on his shoulder (1 college scholarship- Wyoming) to propel him to a long career as a starter .

Allen tries hard. That's about all he has in common with Brady talent-wise.

Allen may evolve into a competent quarterback. But let's not go throwing him a parade for aspiring to mediocrity.

 

[Vatahala]

Allen tries hard. That's about all he has in common with Brady talent-wise.

Allen may evolve into a competent quarterback. But let's not go throwing him a parade for aspiring to mediocrity.

I disagree. He has Brady's likeability factor, his teammates will work harder for him someone they respect unlike teammates in Pittsburgh or GB.

 

[Wozzy]

I'm sorry but this post reads like you just started watching football.

The game hasn't changed? Honestly this is a silly and ignorant statement. Football, basketball, hockey ... Yes the game has changed.

What do you say about shotgun/spread and how much that has increased? Up about 30-40%, maybe more depending on if you go back to 2000 or the 90's. RPO/Misdirection. Directly influenced from college. Putting the best athletes at QB. Directly influenced from high school college. Spacing. College.

So again saying the game hasn't changed is sticking your fingers in your ears and head in the sand.

Also from the first sentence in my post ... "All pass first" QB's but the players playing the position are a lot more athletic. Again this is a result of hs/college putting their best athletes at position.


Regarding Jackson he obviously has a ways to go passing but he's shattered almost everyone's expectations. Brought his team to the playoffs in his first 2 years and lead the league in TD passes. His team completely imploded this year in the playoffs as well. And he is the scheme. Doesn't take a genius to figure out how to make him work. He was successful running a variation of the EP in college and had no problems running Roman's.

You can get to the same place doing different things. Soon all we'll see is mobile QB's. But to deny that game hasn't changed is just ignorant and wrong. Again go watch other sports and you'll see the same thing.

For the last forty years or maybe longer, someone has been declaring that the golden age of running QB's had arrived… and every year a team has to pass well against tough playoff defenses to win a championship.

I never thought I’d see the day an option offense like Baltimore would win as many regular season games and score as much as they did, but until they win the championship I remain skeptical. They would need to draw three bad defenses to win a ring, the odds are stacked against them.

Their defense could be good enough to beat anyone, especially if that defensive front comes together, they’re as talented as any team in the league from 1-53.

The more the game changes, the more it stays the same.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

For the last forty years or maybe longer, someone has been declaring that the golden age of running QB's had arrived… and every year a team has to pass well against tough playoff defenses to win a championship.

I never thought I’d see the day an option offense like Baltimore would win as many regular season games and score as much as they did, but until they win the championship I remain skeptical. They would need to draw three bad defenses to win a ring, the odds are stacked against them.

Their defense could be good enough to beat anyone, especially if that defensive front comes together, they’re as talented as any team in the league from 1-53.

The more the game changes, the more it stays the same.

I initially responded when you compared Jackson with Allen. I just think its a lazy comparison.

Jackson lead his team to the playoffs 2 years in a row and made a huge jump in one of the 2 most important years for a QB development. Years 2 & 3. He was one of the highest graded passers inside & outside the pocket.

66% 36/9
ANY/A 8.19 Y/A 7.8 TD% 9.0

Allen didn't complete 59% of his passes. Was sacked more and fumbled more. ANY/A 5.71. Y/A 6.7 TD/ 4.3

Again Just a lazy comp with all due respect Wozz. Too much bias and not enough objectivity and facts when it comes to Jackson. This has been the case ever since he burst on the scene. Even draftniks couldn't be objective. Definitely a problem when it comes to credibility. Again with all due respect.

Next you tried saying the game hasn't changed. Again just completely false in every sense.

From era to era. You can easily breakdown the significant time periods and things we remember from them. Forward pass, OL not being at a disadvantage for decades, salary cap ...

I mean look at the types of players. They've changed significantly as well. Look at the LB position and the athletes we look for now. Completely different type of player.

The best athletes are being put at QB, starting from HS. Completely changed how we and what we look for.

The slot position has been revolutionized. From "big slot" to RB/WR hybrids.

The amount of shotgun has gone up 35-40% I believe from 10-20 years ago.

There's just no denying the changes. Specifically from college.

Why do you think Bill is constantly on the phone with Nick? Checking out Riley and his practices at OK in person? Picking Meyer's brain?

NFL has changed, just like the NBA, MLB & NHL. There's no denying it. We can debate if it's for the better but all 4 have changed dramatically overall or some way shape or form.