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Marcus Hardison had a reported 4.7 forty coming out of JUCO at 290lbs. Today he's 311lbs. Assuming some exaggeration to that time and some slow down because of his additional bulk, if we assume he'll run in the late 4.8s early 4.9s at the combine, only three DTs between 310 and 320 lbs have run sub 4.5 at the combine since 1999. Three interesting comparisons:

Ra'Shede Hageman - 310 lbs, 5.02 (Hageman had exceptional jumps though)
Sylvester Williams - 313 lbs, 5.03 (went first round to Denver)
Muhammad Wilkerson - 315lbs, 4.96 seconds
Marcel Dareus - 319lbs, 4.93

When you start looking at DTs under 300b, you are looking at the likes of Fletcher Cox (4.77), Corey Liuget (4.97), Kendall Reyes (4.82), Sharif Floyd (4.92), Derek Wolfe (4.93)

**Please note that whilst DTs rarely run forty yards and whilst there's no definite correlation between forty times and general athleticism, by and large a faster forty time usually suggests a better level of all round athleticism:

I am not for a minute saying he'll be as good as these players. What I'm saying is that his athleticism provides him with a potentially high ceiling, especially when you consider that he's about as quick at the snap as Dominique Easley was.

I'm looking forward to seeing what he could do at the combine. I have a hunch he could be one of the winners.
 
Great job Manx!!! I'm still trying to get over our superbowl win lol, but it's never too early to prepare for next year and get familiar with the prospects. I always look forward to reading your thoughts on the draft. Last year was my first year learning and studying some of the pro prospects. Soooo much fun.
I still want Hageman instead of Easley lol, but hopefully Easley will turn out to be really good.





This is my early version of trying to apply value to prospects I like that I feel are good Patriot fits and where I would draft them. Part of that is based upon how I think they'd be valued by the Patriots/NFL. As with Mayo, this is a limited board and is only version 1.o. For now my 'scouting' has been very targeted and there are plenty of prospects I've yet to watch. After the SB, I hope to really attack watching prospects and hope to update this BB on a weekly basis. There will be additions, redactions and changes in position still to come.

Anyway, here it is. I'd love to know what you think:

Big Board (25th Jan, 2015)


Tier 1 (Worth a trade up in first)


1. Dante Fowler Jr, EDGE, Florida
2. TJ Clemmings, OL, Pittsburgh
3. Brandon Scherff, OL, Iowa

I’m discounting prospects that I feel have no chance falling to us. It’s unlikely that I’d consider using more than a 3rd to trade up and I’d feel uncomfortable using a 2nd.

I feel Dante Fowler is the perfect fit for our defensive system, hence his inclusion at the top of the list. It’s unlikely he falls within range but he’s too ideal to ignore. Clemmings, despite his poor Senior Bowl is still one of my top prospects as a potentially elite OG and a potential future LT. Brandon Scherff will be an elite OG.


Tier 2 (First Round)

4. Bud Dupree, EDGE, Kentucky
5. La’el Collins, OL, LSU

As someone who could be a potentially dominant OG, Collins falls just behind Clemmings and Scherff. Whilst I don’t think Dupree will be a true Edge rusher, his elite athleticism makes him a very intriguing chess piece that could be used at DE, OLB and even ILB at times.



Tier 3 (Top 40)

6. Cameron Erving, OL, FSU
7. Carl Davis, DL, Iowa
8. Todd Gurley, RB, Georgia
9. Sammie Coates, WR, Auburn

these are prospects that I’d rather draft by trading back but I’m comfortable picking them at 32 if necessary.

I think Erving would make an excellent LG, he’s a tremendous run blocker and he also offers versatility at OT and OC. Maybe not the most exciting pick but an excellent value one. Carl Davis was my first round pick in my very first mock. At the time I thought he had the strength to be a potentially dominant DT. He’s been inconsistent this year and hadn’t flashed much threat to the QB and so he dropped off my radar. The Senior Bowl, however, reminded me why I liked him so much in the first place. I’d consider him a definite upgrade on Alan Branch (who I like) and a great long-term partner for Easley. Fits the 5-2 and sub 4-2 perfectly. Hurley and Coates are here because whilst I have questions about the floor, both have top 5 in the draft, best in the NFL upside and I find that hard to resist.


Tier 4 (Top 50)

1
0. Owamagbe Odhigizuwa, DL, UCLA
11. Tevin Coleman, RB, Indiana
12. Maxx Williams, TE, Minnesota
13. Malcom Brown, DT, Texas

These are prospects I’d draft by trading up from 64 and would be happy to do so. I’d far rather they were our second pick in the draft rather than the first.

Rightly or wrongly, I place a great deal of emphasis on a DE that can defend the run whilst generating some pass rush but that can then kick inside and be a definite threat to the QB. Obdighizuwa is my favourite prospect at providing just that. To me, Coleman is a potential franchise RB that combines the ability to run inside and over people but also the threat to break one big on a regular basis. Max Williams might not be much of an inline threat (although he can be played there) and he’s not an outstanding athlete but he has outstanding hands and isn’t just a threat down the seam. He’d be a terrific compliment to Gronk and would be a reasonable back up in Gronk’s absence.


Tier 5 (2nd Round Pick)

14. Jake Fisher, OL, Oregon
15. Jeremiah Poutasi, OL, Utah
16. Eddie Goldman, DL, FSU
17. Preston Smith, DL, Mississippi State
18. Arik Armstead, DL, Oregon
19. Paul Dawson, LB, TCU

A step behind Jake Long in terms of strength and athleticism, Jake Fisher is very much in Long’s mould as an athletic OG prospect that excels at getting to the 2nd level. But where Fisher has value to me is as value insurance against Solder not re-signing. Poutasi is a huge body with good enough movement skills to play LG. Goldman reminds me of Timmy Jernigan and I like that value at the end of the second round. I’m not convinced he offers enough all round skills to go higher (although I might move him up a notch) and Smith and Armsted are in the Obdighizuwa mould as outside DEs that can shift inside in sub packages. Dawson is Mayo mkII and would be a great replacement should Mayo be moved on.


Tier 6 (3rd Round)

20. Ameer Abdullah, RB, Nebraska
21. Devin Smith, WR, Ohio State
22. Jacquiski Tartt, SS, Samford
23. Marcus Hardison, DL, Arizona State
24. David Johnson, RB, N. Iowa
25. Hauoli Kikaha, EDGE, Washington
26. Laken Tomlinson, OG, Duke
27. Eric Rowe, CB/FS, Utah
28. Duke Johnson, RB, Miami
29. TJ Yeldon, RB, Alabama


Because he’s not an every down runner, I can’t put Abdullah any higher than this, despite how much I think he excels at what he does do. Both Abdullah and Smith are just that, limited in some areas but outstanding at what they do well. Both could be real offensive weapons in limited roles. Tartt is only on here because I wonder how much BB plans to duplicate what Seattle does on defense. If he’s planning a like for like defense then Tartt is an excellent Kam Chancellor type. On admittedly limited viewing, I think Tartt is too limited a coverage safety to be worth this high a pick however. Harrison might be as quick as Easley at the snap and pressures interior linemen from the snap. However, for now, he’s limited at what he does post-snap playing the 3-tech because he primarily played outside at Arizona State. I do think as a one gapping 5-tech, 3-tech and a base LDE Harrison has real upside and will be one of the combine stars.


Tier 7 ( Early Day 3)


30. Ladarious Gunter, CB, Miami
31. Quinten Rollins, CB, Miami (OH)
32. Tre McBride, WR, William & Mary
33. Lynden Trail, DE/OLB/TE, Norfolk State
34. Jamil Douglas, OL, Arizona State
35. Nick Marshall, CB, Auburn
36. Grady Jarrett, DL, Clemson
37. John Miller, OG, Louisville
38. Clive Walford, TE, Miami
39. Corey Crawford, DE, Clemson
40. Anthony Chickillo, DL, Miami
41. Josh Shaw, CB, USC
42. Zach Hodges, LB, Harvard
43. David Cobb, RB, Minnesota


Tier 8 (Solid Day 3)

44.Shaq Mason, OG, Georgia Tech
45. Ali Marpet, OG, Hobart
46. Tony Lippett, WR/CB, Michigan St.
47. Mario Edwards, DL, Florida State
48. Donovan Smith, OL, Penn State
49. DeAndre Smelter, WR, Georgia Tech
50. Terry Williams, DT, E. Carolina
51. Stephone Anthony, LB, Clemson
52. Steven Nelson, CB, Oregon State
53. Darrian Miller, OL, Kentucky
54. BJ Finney, OL, Kansas State
55. Max Garcia, OL, Florida
56. Adrian Amos, FS, Penn State
57. Jean Sifrin, TE, UMass
58. Maurice Falls, OLB, E. Carolina
59. Ben Heeney, LB, Kansas
60. Antwan Goodley, WR, Baylor
61. Rakeem Nunez-Roches, DL, Southern Mississippi

Tier 9 (Borderline Draftable/UDFA)

62. Ryan Delaire, EDGE, Towson
63. Blake Bell, TE, Oklahoma
64. Jeff Luc, LB, Cincinnati
65. Cassius Sendish, FS, Kansas
66. Tyler Varga, RB, Yale
67. Thurston Armbrister, LB, Florida
68. Rannell Hall, WR, UCF
69. Dezmin Lewis, WR, Central Arkansas
70. Donald Celiscar, CB, Western Michigan
71. Zach Zenner, RB, S. Dakota St.
72. Damarious Randall, FS, Arizona State
73. Deon Long, WR, Maryland
74. Quatshawne Buckley, DL, Idaho
75. Andrae Kirk, LB, Florida Atlantic
76. Andre Monroe, DL, Maryland
77. Leon Orr, DL, Florida
78. Mike Reilly, DL, William & Mary



Note


Because we’re still waiting to see what is happening with McCourty and Revis, I’ve stayed away from early DB consideration because if both re-sign, I don’t see the need to draft one during the first two days.

Some notables I’ve yet to watch or form an opinion on:

Jordan Phillips
Devin Funchess
Melvin Gordon
Shaq Thompson
Max Valles
Danielle Hunter
Eli Harold
Jeff Heuerman
Tyler Kroft

Among others...
 
Great job Manx!!! I'm still trying to get over our superbowl win lol, but it's never too early to prepare for next year and get familiar with the prospects. I always look forward to reading your thoughts on the draft. Last year was my first year learning and studying some of the pro prospects. Soooo much fun.
I still want Hageman instead of Easley lol, but hopefully Easley will turn out to be really good.

Thanks Ashley. Good to have you in the draft room, the more the merrier.
 
I was doing a little bit of research on Sammie Coates.

Consider this: AJ Green is 6'4", Sammie Coates 6' 1.5". But, AJ Green's wingspan was 78" whilst Sammie Coates' is 78.5". Add that to a reported 40" vert and you have a guy who should be able to 'go and get" a bunch of balls.

Coates both excites and terrifies me. His upside is a genuine no 1 receiver and true impact guy but his floor is Stephen Hill.

"Stephen Hill" What a perfect way to describe him
 
Marcus Hardison had a reported 4.7 forty coming out of JUCO at 290lbs. Today he's 311lbs. Assuming some exaggeration to that time and some slow down because of his additional bulk, if we assume he'll run in the late 4.8s early 4.9s at the combine, only three DTs between 310 and 320 lbs have run sub 4.5 at the combine since 1999. Three interesting comparisons:

Ra'Shede Hageman - 310 lbs, 5.02 (Hageman had exceptional jumps though)
Sylvester Williams - 313 lbs, 5.03 (went first round to Denver)
Muhammad Wilkerson - 315lbs, 4.96 seconds
Marcel Dareus - 319lbs, 4.93

When you start looking at DTs under 300b, you are looking at the likes of Fletcher Cox (4.77), Corey Liuget (4.97), Kendall Reyes (4.82), Sharif Floyd (4.92), Derek Wolfe (4.93)

**Please note that whilst DTs rarely run forty yards and whilst there's no definite correlation between forty times and general athleticism, by and large a faster forty time usually suggests a better level of all round athleticism:

I am not for a minute saying he'll be as good as these players. What I'm saying is that his athleticism provides him with a potentially high ceiling, especially when you consider that he's about as quick at the snap as Dominique Easley was.

I'm looking forward to seeing what he could do at the combine. I have a hunch he could be one of the winners.

Yes it does. I believe we are a team who can develop extremely athletic D-lineman. I don't think there is a team that can bring out the best of raw talent at the position. Some teams have areas where they excel and developing talent and DT is one of our strengths.
This goes back to what I was saying about B.J Raji in another post we were talking about. He ran a 5.12 40 at the combine at 337lbs. Now thats athletic.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/green-bay-packers/09000d5d81e0cde5/Raji-vs-Rich-40-yard-dash

The same goes for Hardison. Im all for bringing in a extremely athletic DT. ill be watching him throughout the draft process.
 
I was doing a little bit of research on Sammie Coates.

Consider this: AJ Green is 6'4", Sammie Coates 6' 1.5". But, AJ Green's wingspan was 78" whilst Sammie Coates' is 78.5". Add that to a reported 40" vert and you have a guy who should be able to 'go and get" a bunch of balls.

Coates both excites and terrifies me. His upside is a genuine no 1 receiver and true impact guy but his floor is Stephen Hill.
We don't need a deep threat that high, much rather add front 7 talent early, then grab a guard with starter potential, then start thinking about luxuries

Aaron Dobson had the greatest rookie WR year for BB in a while if not ever, don't give up on him
 
I really love the idea of getting Gurley at 32, getting a dynamic RB obviously helps Brady and we don't need him to be the starter next year. I really like maxx Williams but Idk if he is the TE prospect that the patriots will look at. We all thought they would grab a tight end last year and they smartly didn't reach for one
 
I really love the idea of getting Gurley at 32, getting a dynamic RB obviously helps Brady and we don't need him to be the starter next year. I really like maxx Williams but Idk if he is the TE prospect that the patriots will look at. We all thought they would grab a tight end last year and they smartly didn't reach for one

Let's face it, before we get through the first stage of FA, all this is whistling in the wind. There's going to be a lot of subjectivity at this stage: For now, I have five offensive skill position prospects I'd be happy taking before pick 64: Gurley, Coates, Williams, Abdullah, Coleman but those are personal choices. I can certainly see arguments for and against each.
 
Just in terms of fun tape to watch, Ameer Abdullah is one of my favourite prospects in the draft. So this is interesting:

SOURCES TELL US
"He has the highest overall character grade I've ever given to a prospect, and includes both football character and off-the-field. Aside from (Melvin) Gordon and (Todd) Gurley, I think he's the third best running back in this draft." -- AFC North scout

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/ameer-abdullah?id=2552374

Anyone getting rave reviews for their character can't be discounted s a potential future Patriot.
 
I really love the idea of getting Gurley at 32, getting a dynamic RB obviously helps Brady and we don't need him to be the starter next year. I really like maxx Williams but Idk if he is the TE prospect that the patriots will look at. We all thought they would grab a tight end last year and they smartly didn't reach for one
Don't discount Tim Wright. He has already proven he can get open and catch against NFL DBs. A full off-season of bodybuilding and a full Training Camp will afford him a much better fit in the Patriot Offense.
 
Don't discount Tim Wright. He has already proven he can get open and catch against NFL DBs. A full off-season of bodybuilding and a full Training Camp will afford him a much better fit in the Patriot Offense.
Wright is a reason I dont think the Pats will target a TE early, if they draft one I expect they will look at a player who is more of a true tight end
 
Don't discount Tim Wright. He has already proven he can get open and catch against NFL DBs. A full off-season of bodybuilding and a full Training Camp will afford him a much better fit in the Patriot Offense.

If Tim wright works out with Jonas gray, hell be fine. Gray looks like a moving block of granite. But in all seriousness, I see Tim wright being able to fill AHerns role after a full offseason and training camp. I would like a replacement to Hooman tho.
 
If Tim wright works out with Jonas gray, hell be fine. Gray looks like a moving block of granite. But in all seriousness, I see Tim wright being able to fill AHerns role after a full offseason and training camp. I would like a replacement to Hooman tho.

I believe in Colt. That is all I have to say
Colt, Colt, Colt. Of all the trouble prospects in the NFL. He is the best bet
 
I've decided to re-work my Big Board based upon this grading system from the Patriot Reign book:

Scouts are also asked to put players into a specific box, and they have eight groupings from which to choose:

1. Starter: A+9.00-9.99, A8.00-8.99, and Q (height deficient) 8.00-8.99

2. Circumstantial starter - a first year NFL starter whose production has been restricted by circumstance - NCAA rule violation, problems with an agent, personal/family conflict. C7.00-7.99

3. Make It + - a player who won't start right away in his first season but is expected to contribute in year one and an eventual starter: 6.50-6.99

4. Dirty starter- could start, but something about the player is restrictive (maybe not enough speed/athleticism). The manual says this could be the category for over and under achievers 6.00-6.49

5. Make it - a backup who won't win or lose a game for you. 5.50-5.99

6. Free agent - not expected to make the team but could rise to 'make it'. Practice squad or [now defunct] NFL Europe: 5.00-5.49

Note: There are two other grades that I've left, one for "Pats reject" and one for "Reject".

We aren't told how this sorts into rounds, but I'll work to the following:

Starter:

There are effectively three grades here:

  1. A+ - This is a future hall of famer and is someone who goes in the top 5 and could be taken with the first pick.
  2. A - A first year starter. A lock to be taken in round one.
  3. A (Q) - The same as no 2 but height deficient. A prospect like this would get taken behind a Starter (A) grade but before any player in the next tier.

Circumstantial Starter

Think Gronk (back injury) or Jamie Collins (Smaller school, lack of experience). This is a first round prospect you should be able to draft by trading back into the first half of the second round.


Make It Plus


Round Two - Early Round Three


Dirty Starter


Could go at the end of day three or 4th round.


Make It

Rounds 5 and 6

Free Agent

Round 7 and UDFA



See the following link for more details

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=301992
 
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@Wilfork#75 brought him up a few days ago, but don't sleep on DJ Humphries of Florida. Looks like he might be slotting into that top 40 slot at the moment and is getting some good reviews now that his tape is starting to get evaluated. Solder's future with the Pats is up in the air at the moment. He'll be going in to my next big board update.
 
I saw a couple people mention him but I really like Eli Harold from Virginia. He might not hold up against the run too well but he's so explosive rushing the passer and seems to fall into the trend of BB drafting more athletic defenders (Easley and Collins).
 
I saw a couple people mention him but I really like Eli Harold from Virginia. He might not hold up against the run too well but he's so explosive rushing the passer and seems to fall into the trend of BB drafting more athletic defenders (Easley and Collins).

I haven't done much scouting on him, but does he win off of explosion and speed alone or is he good with his hands? If he has moves to go with the explosion then I think him being a liability in stopping the run isn't too bad.
 
Just watched a Jamil Douglas vid (tier 7 from Manx's list) and came away impressed, particularly his pass protection.
 
Just watched a Jamil Douglas vid (tier 7 from Manx's list) and came away impressed, particularly his pass protection.


He's one of my favoured options if we're picking OL late. His LT experience helps him in pass pro and he has good athleticism for the LG role. Played all four guard and tackle positions in college. Good eye.
 
I haven't watched him much but Houston's DT Joey Mbu is interesting:

1. Good size - 6024, 315b, 34.5" arms. Like Wilfork does in our system, with those arms he could play the nose or the 5-tech if necessary.

2. Outstanding character. from his nfl.com scouting card:

Football and personal character are sky-high, according to regional scouts.
...
"The coaches at Houston can't stop talking about how good the kid is and what kind of leader he is." -- AFC defensive line coach

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/joey-mbu?id=2552284

3. Impressed the Senior Bowl staff with his attitude:

POTENTIAL 'STARTER' UPSIDE:
DT #96 JOEY MBU/HOUSTON (South) 6026/315 34 ½” Arm | 9 ½” HandJoey flashed every day against the run and pass. He has raw size, strength and natural ability, and with his attitude, should develop nicely for a team that will work with him. He took the most reps of anyone in pass rush and simply never gave up.

http://www.seniorbowl.com/news-highlights-detail.php?news=287

A development prospect for sure, but sounds like the type of rookie BB would like.
 


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