Moss's ex coaches rip him...

[Gumby]

Jury is still out on Moss in my book.

There are a couple of coaches and opposing defensive players who have categorically stated they 'knew if Moss ran ful tilt the play was to him; otherwise he would usually take the play off and run half speed.'

If he half steps on plays and ruins them; on ones that are designed for him to take the FS deep with him and TB hit the underneath guy........woe be unto him.

He is saying all the right things and acting like Cory II. But I'll wait and see what happens come game time.

 

[Rob0729]

Anyone catch the segment on the NFL Network? I didnt catch the whole thing because I just had woken up... But Art Shell was saying something along the lines of " Moss is lazy.." , "We wanted him to take an MRI on his knee but he always refuses because he was scared of what it would find", "He teases all of us with a little speed and brilliant plays, but hes getting old fast"...

No class from Art Shell..very scummy move. Even if this all does come to be true ( i am pretty sure it wont), you don't say or do that.. I hope come winter Belicheck and Patriot Nation stuff Art Shell's fat face with crow..all day.

Moss had it coming. Moss threw Shell under the bus when he told the radio station he appears on every week during the season that the team basically quit on Shell. This wasn't after the season, this was in season.

If it was a scummy move by Shell, then it was definitely a scummy move by Moss. If Shell was acting as an analyst on the NFL Network, he has the right to say what he said. It is still worse for a players to basically call out a coach while he is playing for him than a coach airing sour grapes when he isn't even coaching in the league.

 

[bakes781]

I have a lot disdain for players who take plays off. For example to this day I still have no respect for Gary Sheffield who admittingly dogged it in Milwaukee to get traded. So I will not defend Randy Moss, but I take what ex coaches say with a grain of salt, especially ones that have little to no success in their own profession.

 

[Born_a_Patriot]

Come on guys Moss is a bad player. He is the kind of player we would have let go. Talented yes, but not the type we have become accustomed to. Lets not turn him into what he isn't just because he is a Patriot now. We can only hope he wants to win a ring bad enough to overcome himself.

 

[DarrylS]

Do not ever remember BB saying anything but good about a former player, as fans all we ever get are rumors.. this may another reason that players want to come here, if they do not make it no one will ever know why. Consider Doug Gabriel, there were all kinds of suspicions, but no confirmations.

 

[bakes781]

this may another reason that players want to come here, if they do not make it no one will ever know why. Consider Doug Gabriel, there were all kinds of suspicions, but no confirmations.

Doug Gabriel was essentially a nobody. The media will do everything in their power to find out what Randy Moss is doing every minute.

 

[Rob0729]

Do not ever remember BB saying anything but good about a former player, as fans all we ever get are rumors.. this may another reason that players want to come here, if they do not make it no one will ever know why. Consider Doug Gabriel, there were all kinds of suspicions, but no confirmations.

Let's wait and see what Belichick says about players after he leaves the game. Shell is basically done with the NFL. A lot coaches do give more honest assessment of their players after they leave the game.

Everyone is saying that Shell is saying bad things about Moss because it is just sour grapes, but he isn't trashing Al Davis, Mike Lombardi, or Tom Walsh. Maybe some of what Shell is saying is the truth. He might be embelishing a bit because he is bitter, but what if his assessment of Moss is more accurate than a lot of the people who are saying Moss is an elite WR who just was in a bad situation the last three years.

 

[Alk]

Could you please provide links to the quotes from the coaches who still have jobs in Oakland who are ripping Moss? I ask because I have only see Shell and the Old OC rip Moss and neither of them have a job currently.

I don't have a link, I heard it on ESPN radio yesterday. Belitnikoff made a comment one particular play last season. It was a play action pass and Moss was supposed to run a particular route on the dirt part of their field. Moss didn't run the route and the play blew up. Biletnikoff asked him what happened and Moss basically told him he didn't want to run that route on that part of the field. He also said there were somewhere around 30+ plays last season that blew up because of Moss not doing what he was supposed to do.

 

[mgcolby]

Moss had it coming. Moss threw Shell under the bus when he told the radio station he appears on every week during the season that the team basically quit on Shell. This wasn't after the season, this was in season.

If it was a scummy move by Shell, then it was definitely a scummy move by Moss. If Shell was acting as an analyst on the NFL Network, he has the right to say what he said. It is still worse for a players to basically call out a coach while he is playing for him than a coach airing sour grapes when he isn't even coaching in the league.

Do you need a defibrillator every time Moss' name is mentioned?

You may want to avoid Moss threads, they appear to be bad for your health.

 

[mgcolby]

Let's wait and see what Belichick says about players after he leaves the game. Shell is basically done with the NFL. A lot coaches do give more honest assessment of their players after they leave the game.

You mean the NFL is done with Shell...right?

 

[mgcolby]

I don't have a link, I heard it on ESPN radio yesterday. Belitnikoff made a comment one particular play last season. It was a play action pass and Moss was supposed to run a particular route on the dirt part of their field. Moss didn't run the route and the play blew up. Biletnikoff asked him what happened and Moss basically told him he didn't want to run that route on that part of the field. He also said there were somewhere around 30+ plays last season that blew up because of Moss not doing what he was supposed to do.

We both know he won't get away with that crap here. He would be benched and most likely cut if that happens more than once. Not to take away from Moss' behavior but why was he on the field then? The coaches should have put his ass on the bench!

This situation only highlights the differences between the two organizations, IMO.

 

[Rob0729]

You mean the NFL is done with Shell...right?

Yeah. Either way he will never coach again. Too bad. In the right situation, I think he could be a good coach. Not on a team with a crazy, senile owner and a bunch of malcontents on the team.

 

[Rob0729]

Do you need a defibrillator every time Moss' name is mentioned?

You may want to avoid Moss threads, they appear to be bad for your health.

Well, considering every third thread seems to be about Moss. It would be hard to avoid the threads.

I don't need difibrillator. Aparently, I need some rose colored glasses that a lot of people on this board are using. You know the one who has turned Randy Moss from a selfish, premadonna into a misunderstood victim of circumstances.

 

[mgcolby]

Yeah. Either way he will never coach again. Too bad. In the right situation, I think he could be a good coach. Not on a team with a crazy, senile owner and a bunch of malcontents on the team.

I'm not so sure, because 31 other teams disagreed with you for 12 years. If you look back he only had two decent seasons as a head coach and one of them ended with a 51-3 beating in the AFCC game.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm not so sure, because 31 other teams disagreed with you for 12 years. If you look back he only had two decent seasons as a head coach and one of them ended with a 51-3 beating in the AFCC game.

He got to the AFCCG and you consider it a bad season because he got blown out? Besides, Shell won Coach of the Year for that season. He also only had one losing season as Head Coach his first time around. That is better than a lot of coaches who kept on getting jobs in that timeframe.

Well you are wrong about 31 teams because there weren't 32 teams 12 years ago, but I get your point. But you could have said the same thing **** Vermeil before the Rams hired him. He went on and won a Super Bowl. He went 15 years between jobs and only had 4 winning seasons in his first go round with the Eagles.

Shell had taken his name out of the candidate pool for a number of years when he took a cushy job in the league front office. It was only in recent years that he had thrown his hat into the ring for head coaching jobs and that was only because the Rooney Rule required teams to interview African American candidates and he did Jerry Jones a favor and "interviewed" with him so Jones could hire Parcells. After that teams kept calling and probably renewed his interest.

 

[TheSeymonsta]

I could really care less what one washed up coach and another bed and breakfast manager think.

We shall see what happens on the field.

If he plays well he has a home.

If not he doesent get paid.

 

[mgcolby]

He got to the AFCCG and you consider it a bad season because he got blown out? Besides, Shell won Coach of the Year for that season. He also only had one losing season as Head Coach his first time around. That is better than a lot of coaches who kept on getting jobs in that timeframe.

Well you are wrong about 31 teams because there weren't 32 teams 12 years ago, but I get your point. But you could have said the same thing **** Vermeil before the Rams hired him. He went on and won a Super Bowl. He went 15 years between jobs and only had 4 winning seasons in his first go round with the Eagles.

Shell had taken his name out of the candidate pool for a number of years when he took a cushy job in the league front office. It was only in recent years that he had thrown his hat into the ring for head coaching jobs and that was only because the Rooney Rule required teams to interview African American candidates and he did Jerry Jones a favor and "interviewed" with him so Jones could hire Parcells. After that teams kept calling and probably renewed his interest.

Also, don't forget the whole racial element of the whole thing. It is a fact that African American head coaches were very rare until recent history. Hence the Rooney Rule. Many owners were happy to recycle bums like Norv Turner or Dave Wannstedt than Art Shell.

Man, do you read what people right or do gloss over it come to your own conclusion?

Heck you even quoted what I wrote. I said he had two decent seasons and one of them ended with a beating in the AFCC game. I didn't call it a bad season! He's not a good coach IMO and comparing him to Vermeil is apples to oranges. Vermeil made it clear he was retiring and the coaching grind got to him. Shell was fired and didn't generate much interest if any after that for twelve years, by 31 teams. The Jags and Panthers joined the league in 1995 and Shell was fired in 1994.

 

[Rob0729]

Man, do you read what people right or do gloss over it come to your own conclusion?

Heck you even quoted what I wrote. I said he had two decent seasons and one of them ended with a beating in the AFCC game. I didn't call it a bad season! He's not a good coach IMO and comparing him to Vermeil is apples to oranges. Vermeil made it clear he was retiring and the coaching grind got to him. Shell was fired and didn't generate much interest if any after that for twelve years, by 31 teams. The Jags and Panthers joined the league in 1995 and Shell was fired in 1994.

I read what you wrote. You said he had two decent seasons. I don't think a year where he won every Coach of the Year award and went to the AFC Championship Game a decent season. There are a lot of coaches who never have a season like that. I think he had four decent or better seasons. Anytime you have a winning record, it is decent year. It ain't good or great year, it is decent though.

As for Shell, he was an African American coach in the 90s before he retired from coaching to get a cushy front office job. He did get jobs as coordinators after getting fired by the Raiders. It wasn't like no one wanted the guy at all. It was just a league and time where African American Head Coaches didn't get a second chance (most didn't get a first chance) and bums like Jerry Glanville, Norv Turner, Rich Kotite, Dave Wannstedt, and others got second chances and third and fourth chances. If Glanville and Kotite could get second chances, Art Shell didn't get a second chance for other reasons than his coaching back then.

Both Vermiel and Shell walked away from the game. They walked away at different times, but Shell could have had been a coordinator for a number of years after he decided to walk away from the game and maybe eventually gotten a head coaching job again before last year. He decided he didn't want to go through the rigors of the game and worked for the league and eventually became the VP of Operations.

 

[zippo59]

I just don't see how people can think that a player can decline so quickly when he isn't that old and hasn't had any serious injury.

The Raiders coaches and offense were completely incompetent last year. As someone else said, Belichick isn't always right, but I'll take his word over an angry Art Shell's anyday.

 

[TealSox]

Thank you TOM WALSH.

Thank you ART SHELL.

First of all, Walsh doesn't want to open the floodgate of criticism. The guy caught a lucky break to get into football, which was clearly wasn't up to the challenge. You might had been a great OC back in the day and a major part of Raiders' history, but don't come into the "now" and start ripping people and expect not to get ripped yourself.

Sounds like Tom Walsh has a scapegoat too.

I have said this all along, I won't apologize and make excuses for Moss. I always thought he was a lazy wideout that didn't make proper use of his talent. His legal problems are unexcusable. He has a bad rap for good reasons and there are so many that will atest to it that it is hard to ignore. Its the whole smoke, theres fire argument.

That doesn't mean that he can't turn it around. That doesn't mean that he doesn't want to make up for his past mistakes, but he won't get any special treatment out of NE. You go to OAK and you were going to be their savior. In NE, you gotta get with the program or hit the street.

That being said, what better message to send to future free agents and current players than to cut/suspend a player like Randy Moss. I think that has to be an option and if he starts to act up (training camp or not), he needs to go. Doubt the media will applaud the move as much as they frowned on the pick up.... it will definately make Lane Kiffin smarter than I think he is, but so be it.

As my man Ron Wolf said, it is about the organization and what is best for the organization. If Moss isn't adding to the organization's ability to win, drop him and accept the criticism.

To Moss: Listen to what people are saying to you. Use it as your inspiration. Overcome this rap you have received and be what everyone thought you could be. I know that you have interests elsewhere and football isn't as much a priority as it used to be, but in the end, regret and a bad rap will haunt your future.