Measuring "Cheap"

[Bruins29]

People are conflating two separate issues regarding the Patriots and their spending habits. The Patriots are not cheap as a franchise, they routinely spend to the cap and are never 40 and 50 million under, like the truly cheap teams like Cincinnatti. On the other hand the Patriots are very tight and tough when it comes to individual deals with players. Other than a few players, like Brady, they don't want to give market deals to their players and almost always go lowball when dealing with both their players and free agents.

But since it works shouldn't they continue?

Management diddnt drop the pass.

 

[Rusty Coupe]

The Patriots way of spending can obviously be frustrating as a fan when there's a free agent you like and know they probably won't get them.

That being said, I very much prefer the Patriot way over a team like Dallas, who spends a truck load of cash on Brandon Carr, then has to restructure his contract barely a full calender year into it so they can get a couple $100,000 above the salary cap. Is that smarter? Does signing players one year and apparently not paying any attention to what things will look like the following year a smart thing?

Again, of course there's been free agents I would have liked to see us get, I'm human. But while the majority of the league was cutting players left and right a couple weeks ago, the team that was in the AFC Championship last season was sitting on $18 million BEFORE Brady restructured.

And for those that think we for sure would have another Super Bowl title or two had we dished out the money for a top free agent recently, JR Redmond, David Tyree, Tracy Porter, Mario Manningham and Jacoby Jones say hello.

This is what happens when there is no money left to pay for depth.

The Cowboys' December Dropoffs

2011 - Pre-December 7-4; Dec.-Jan. 0-2
2010 - Pre-December 3-8; Dec.-Jan 3-2
2009 - Pre-December 8-3; Dec.-Jan 3-2; 1-1 playoffs
2008 - Pre-December 8-4; Dec.-Jan. 1-3
2007 - Pre-December 11-1; Dec.-Jan. 2-2; 0-1 playoffs
2006 - Pre-December 7-4; Dec.-Jan. 2-3; 0-1 playoffs (Romo's first year as starter)
2005 - Pre-December 7-4; Dec.-Jan. 2-3
2004 - Pre-December 4-7; Dec.-Jan. 2-3
2003 – Pre-December 8-4; Dec-Jan. 2-2; 0-1 playoffs
2002 – Pre-December 5-7; Dec.-Jan 0-4

Totals
Pre-December record: 68-46, .596
Dec.-Jan: 16-27, .372
Playoffs: 1-4, .200

Cowboys taking yet another December dive

 

[Ring 6]

Right me calling people like you homers is worse than you just stating everyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is stupid. Get off your high horse.

Actually many posters here for years have stated that we need a CB, WR, and pass rush and that signing old cooks won't get it done, before the fact. And guess what? Every year it doesn't get it done because we come to the offseason saying we need corners, receivers, and a pass rush. Funny how that works?

That has nothing to do with cheap. It has to do with deciding where to spend and where not to. You act as if they spent less on an older guy so they could pocket the difference. That is simply flat out wrong.

I don't know what a homer is? Aren't you the guy who can't even spell hypocrite? You're actually one the biggest going to every thread calling all people that see the obvious flaws with this team morons while spouting how BB is the best. He's the best coach, his GM side has let him down the last 5 years.

And don't give you that TB crap? Matt Cassel with one of the easiest schedules we have ever had as a team with essentially the same team that went 18-1 accounted for 7 less wins. TB was worth 7 wins EVEN THEN.

Umm, Cassell led them to an 11-5 season, and Brady came back the next year to lead them to 10-6. Your argument is senseless.

The defense has fallen off even worse since you put Matt Cassel on last year's team they win 3-4 games MAX. TB is the team.

Lets just make stuff up and argue
The defense was 9th in points allowed.

They spend to the cap they aren't cheap in terms of dollars. They are cheap in terms of getting top end talent when they desperately need it and opportunities to do so were there this off season for reasonable years and $$.

Brady
Wilfork
Mankins
Gronkowski
Hernandez
Mayo
Talib

These are big money longer term contracts. The Patriots have as many or more big money long term contracts as any team. You whining is because instead of chasing overpriced free agents they instead keep their own.

Also all those contingencies this team tried to make, how'd the tight end or wide receiver contingencies work out? The ones they were sooo smart about signing by "spreading the wealth" which I call being cheap.

Oh ya here's how it worked out

Shianco- cut
Hooman- garbage player
Winslow- cut
Fells- lucky to play 5 snaps
Gaffney - cut
Stallworth - cut, resigned, IR after 1 game!

You are seriously complaining about the 3rd TE? The 5th WR?
Ok so lets go out and sign 10mill a year players for these 2 spots.
Who do you cut to save 20 mill, Mr Big Spender.

Guess what bit you in the ass in the AFC championship game? No Gronk, no receivers besides Welker.

So, every team that lost because of a lack of something was cheap?
So since the SB Champs have let all their players walk does that mean all 32 teams are cheap?

This is what happens when you become too obsessed with spreading the wealth you pay for a bunch of marginal talents that get cut because they suck or hurt because they're old.

How many starters on the Patriots in 2012 were 'marginal talents that get cut because they suck'?
Your argument is now turning into the Patriots are cheap because they don't spend $5,000,000 on backups in case someone gets hurt, and they bring in guys who may or make not make the roster for the bottom of the roster spots.
Brilliant.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Guys, dont you think it is a little scary that we need to explain the salary cap to posters here? The cap is almost 20 years old.

What were these so called "football fans" doing this whole time.

Same thing you were doing..jumping on the bandwagon

 

[Koma]

I've got a general question about this: Does anyone know of a site that can show how much teams have spent towards the salary cap over the years?

I saw the spotrac.com page today and that's what I'm looking for, except with more historical information. That site showed last year's cap info, but not before that.

I want to a better handle/rebuttal for the "The Patriots don't spend money" line of thinking.

 

[Brady2Moss]

That has nothing to do with cheap. It has to do with deciding where to spend and where not to. You act as if they spent less on an older guy so they could pocket the difference. That is simply flat out wrong.


Umm, Cassell led them to an 11-5 season, and Brady came back the next year to lead them to 10-6. Your argument is senseless.


Lets just make stuff up and argue
The defense was 9th in points allowed.



Brady
Wilfork
Mankins
Gronkowski
Hernandez
Mayo
Talib

These are big money longer term contracts. The Patriots have as many or more big money long term contracts as any team. You whining is because instead of chasing overpriced free agents they instead keep their own.






You are seriously complaining about the 3rd TE? The 5th WR?
Ok so lets go out and sign 10mill a year players for these 2 spots.
Who do you cut to save 20 mill, Mr Big Spender.





So, every team that lost because of a lack of something was cheap?
So since the SB Champs have let all their players walk does that mean all 32 teams are cheap?


How many starters on the Patriots in 2012 were 'marginal talents that get cut because they suck'?
Your argument is now turning into the Patriots are cheap because they don't spend $5,000,000 on backups in case someone gets hurt, and they bring in guys who may or make not make the roster for the bottom of the roster spots.
Brilliant.

Wait are you actually serious I said they spend to the cap that means I'm acting like they pocket the difference? Ivan was able to better put in words what I meant, they are cheap to individual negotiations.

Umm the schedule was the hardest pass defense schedule in 20 years according to DVOA and Brady was coming off a torn ACL? I think its senseless to act like Brady isn't what makes this team go and they would be below average without him.

LMAO I'm making stuff up the defense hasn't fallen off since 08? ARE YOU SERIOUS?

I stated they don't spend on outside players and resign there own. The problem is when you can't draft WR and CB there are none of your own to sign leaving you with glaring holes. Nice one there with Talib his 1 year 5 million contract is for big money and multiple years

Not complaining he is the one that brought up how smart we are for having contingencies and I'm pointing out those contingencies did crap for this team at the receiver/ tight end position that killed them in the end.

My argument is nothing like them spending that much on back ups? I didn't even bring it up initially it was in response to Bruins29 maybe you should learn how to comprehend what you read. My argument is they are in a rare position. They have the best QB in the game. They have a lot of cap space which many teams with top QBs don't have. They are a few players or plays away from a SB. Yet they refuse to address chronic problems such as WR, CB, and pass rush when cheap options were available for once.

Brilliant how me wanting one or two impact guys this year equals me wanting to be the Washington Redskins overpaying for top end talent and then paying their backups 5 million. Your spin is out of control.

 

[Brady2Moss]

I dont think the Pats being a superior franchise to all the others is an opinion though. I dont need a high horse to see it. It is a fact. I see the holes. I want the awesome WR just as much as you do. We all do...I guess instead of the pink hat sheep people who probably post here once a month and just say THE PATS ARE THE BEST!!!!! and all that garbage. Ok whatever...


Most people in the stands just go and root for the team and couldnt name 5 players.

I still dont get your gripe? We diddnt get Peppers. Most here would have rather not. So why is that an issue? Too much money for one guy.

Carter and Anderson were great. Werent they? What was the problem there?

They at least tried with Ochco and Hainesworth. No risk since they were both cuttable. Nobody knew Ochco would suck so bad. At least they tried? I know they diddnt get Fitz...Can they?

Regardless, you think they should just pay top end talent and then do what with the rest of the 53? Dont bother getting guys like Fells and Hooman and Stallworth because they dont meet the standards you set?

Ahhhh I think you need Roster min guys for just in case scenarios. Right?

And seriously, you correcting my typos is funny?

Are you 17?

A homer is someone who thinks WW is the greatest WR of all time. Or Curtis Martin was a better Pat than Jet....or that Kevin Faulk was better than Marshall...

That is a homer.

People on this board who show knowledge about everything football from the game side to the business side of things who support management are APPRECIATIVE because of two things.

They measure their team against the others
They measure their team against how it could be, used to be.

I hate to tell you. Your fantasy world, where the team missed out on all this glory because we diddn't sign Julius Peppers dosen't exist.

The only people acting this way are people with unrealistic, ridiculous unattainable, expectations stemming from following this team only when the going got good.

That is fair weather.

What would you be like if they were a 500 team? I remember it like yesterday. You guys cant even handle this?

They are trying, but the solution is always washed up old guy. I don't want to be the redskins, but think what this team could have been if they did sign Julius Peppers. His price went extremely high when the Bears decided to go crazy so its fine they didn't get him, but from what I read they offered him a 1 year 10 million dollar deal. What prime player hitting FA wants a 1 year deal?

This year there were pass rushers available yet we're in some 5 day negotiation fora 35 year old who hasn't done crap against a good o-line in 2 years (credit to Deus Irae for digging that nugget up).

This team is real close they have the dollars go get some impact players. Especially this year when a good corner and pass rusher would cost you 10 million combined for 1 year! You're done with the guy after a year it isn't a huge burden on future cap.

I'm a fair weather fan because I realize this is more likely than not the best time for the team we love to get SBs because we have arguably the greater HC and QB of all time?

Who the hell are you to call me fair weather?

 

[chicowalker]

Who should they be signing this offseason, and which signings shouldn't have taken place or shouldn't happen (to offset those signings)?

btw, the first few things I see on google regarding the Pats' supposed offer to Peppers say it was worth $10mm annually -- which obviously implies that it wasn't a 1 year deal

They are trying, but the solution is always washed up old guy. I don't want to be the redskins, but think what this team could have been if they did sign Julius Peppers. His price went extremely high when the Bears decided to go crazy so its fine they didn't get him, but from what I read they offered him a 1 year 10 million dollar deal. What prime player hitting FA wants a 1 year deal?

This year there were pass rushers available yet we're in some 5 day negotiation fora 35 year old who hasn't done crap against a good o-line in 2 years (credit to Deus Irae for digging that nugget up).

This team is real close they have the dollars go get some impact players. Especially this year when a good corner and pass rusher would cost you 10 million combined for 1 year! You're done with the guy after a year it isn't a huge burden on future cap.

I'm a fair weather fan because I realize this is more likely than not the best time for the team we love to get SBs because we have arguably the greater HC and QB of all time?

Who the hell are you to call me fair weather?

 

[BTTA]

B2M, a budget is a simple thing. You don't get to say, "I want that" without saying, "instead of this." And signing bonuses are just a way of pushing obligations into the future; they are the credit card of the NFL.

If you want to argue that the Pats should sign a huge contract with a super star, and have any integrity to the logic, you have to be able to say, "and instead of these six players at $3M each, I'd rather have six JAGs at $750K each to free up the money to pay for the one super star." Then we can all look at the trade-offs you are suggesting in terms of player talent put on the field and have a legitimate conversation about it.

The same goes for player trades. There is a finite amount of cap room that is shared equally by the NFL teams. If we acquire a high cost player from another team, in return for draft picks or lower cost players, part of what is traded to that team is some of our cap room. They literally create money to spend in their cap by reducing ours through the transaction. An informed conversation about the trade must include these factors.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Who should they be signing this offseason, and which signings shouldn't have taken place or shouldn't happen (to offset those signings)?

btw, the first few things I see on google regarding the Pats' supposed offer to Peppers say it was worth $10mm annually -- which obviously implies that it wasn't a 1 year deal

Possibly conflicting reports, I am probably wrong there is a lot of misinformation during the offseason.

I think this offseason they should have tried harder to sign Bennett and another corner besides Talib (Keenan Lewis, Dunta Robinson, Cox) given how the market shook out. I don't necessarily think anything needed to be offset because we still have 10-15 million in cap space and obviously cap hits are lower year 1 than the annual average.

For 15 million we could have added Lewis, Talib, and Bennett. Really it depends on how much Abraham makes (is he even signing with us anymore this is a really long negotiation for a 35 year old) if he's making 3-4 million then we could have had a younger pass rusher for 1-2 million more without any need to offset. Lewis may have been a luxury, but I think we need 3 outside corners because Talib is injury prone. I've given up hope for Ras-I if he does anything I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Honestly I just wanted 1 more player and a different pass rusher, would doing something similar have been Redskins-esqe?

 

[Brady2Moss]

B2M, a budget is a simple thing. You don't get to say, "I want that" without saying, "instead of this." And signing bonuses are just a way of pushing obligations into the future; they are the credit card of the NFL.

If you want to argue that the Pats should sign a huge contract with a super star, and have any integrity to the logic, you have to be able to say, "and instead of these six players at $3M each, I'd rather have six JAGs at $750K each to free up the money to pay for the one super star." Then we can all look at the trade-offs you are suggesting in terms of player talent put on the field and have a legitimate conversation about it.

The same goes for player trades. There is a finite amount of cap room that is shared equally by the NFL teams. If we acquire a high cost player from another team, in return for draft picks or lower cost players, part of what is traded to that team is some of our cap room. They literally create money to spend in their cap by reducing ours through the transaction. An informed conversation about the trade must include these factors.

I just posted about what I wanted below in relation to this years market. I realize there is a budget. That budget has been used on Fanene and the likes of Ochostinko (6 million dollars?!) So don't act like there was money to be better spent.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

My argument is they are in a rare position. They have the best QB in the game. They have a lot of cap space which many teams with top QBs don't have. They are a few players or plays away from a SB. Yet they refuse to address chronic problems such as WR, CB, and pass rush when cheap options were available for once.

The problem is that you're certain the team just needs one or two players and they're all but guaranteed a Super Bowl win.

David Tyree is responsible for the 2007 Patriots not being the greatest team ever. It wasn't a high priced free agent they signed, it wasn't one of their star players, it was Tyree. It's never as easy as signing one or two guys and it's a done deal.

And have you not noticed that today is Day 7 of the new league year? You act like the team has announced they will spend no more money and that every free agent has already been signed by other teams. There's still a lot of good players out there. A trade might be happening. The offseason's not over.

 

[Brady2Moss]

The problem is that you're certain the team just needs one or two players and they're all but guaranteed a Super Bowl win.

David Tyree is responsible for the 2007 Patriots not being the greatest team ever. It wasn't a high priced free agent they signed, it wasn't one of their star players, it was Tyree. It's never as easy as signing one or two guys and it's a done deal.

And have you not noticed that today is Day 7 of the new league year? You act like the team has announced they will spend no more money and that every free agent has already been signed by other teams. There's still a lot of good players out there. A trade might be happening. The offseason's not over.

You don't think this team is one or two players away? They were a miraculous catch and a drop away from winning 2.

All the good free agents are gone the bargains are left so I hope for this teams sake that Bill can hit on them like he did in 2011 instead of the 2012 bargain tour.

What kind of trade can this team make? Revis aint coming Fitz aint coming. Huge trades rarely happen in the NFL.

 

[chicowalker]

Possibly conflicting reports, I am probably wrong there is a lot of misinformation during the offseason.

I think this offseason they should have tried harder to sign Bennett and another corner besides Talib (Keenan Lewis, Dunta Robinson, Cox) given how the market shook out. I don't necessarily think anything needed to be offset because we still have 10-15 million in cap space and obviously cap hits are lower year 1 than the annual average.

For 15 million we could have added Lewis, Talib, and Bennett. Really it depends on how much Abraham makes (is he even signing with us anymore this is a really long negotiation for a 35 year old) if he's making 3-4 million then we could have had a younger pass rusher for 1-2 million more without any need to offset. Lewis may have been a luxury, but I think we need 3 outside corners because Talib is injury prone. I've given up hope for Ras-I if he does anything I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Honestly I just wanted 1 more player and a different pass rusher, would doing something similar have been Redskins-esqe?

I'm not sure any of those guys could have been had so easily, aside from Bennett (since the others were multiyear deals and I'm not sure if the guaranteed $). But if the Pats do nothing else this offseason I'd agree with you.

As it stands, though, there are still FAs out there, along with Vollmer and Edelman, and possibly Emmanuel Sanders.

Getting back to the topic, though, if they re-sign Vollmer and Edelman, say, and maybe pick up Abraham, I'd understand you possibly questioning their moves. But it wouldn't make them cheap.

 

[Ring 6]

They are trying, but the solution is always washed up old guy. I don't want to be the redskins, but think what this team could have been if they did sign Julius Peppers. His price went extremely high when the Bears decided to go crazy so its fine they didn't get him, but from what I read they offered him a 1 year 10 million dollar deal. What prime player hitting FA wants a 1 year deal?

You cannot really believe that happened. If you do, there is no point having football discussions.

This year there were pass rushers available yet we're in some 5 day negotiation fora 35 year old who hasn't done crap against a good o-line in 2 years (credit to Deus Irae for digging that nugget up).

What does that have to do with 'cheap'? It appears we put Abraham on hold to try and get Dumervil. Bennett has issues, which is why the best he could get was 1 yr 5 mill.
Deus Irae's "nugget" was actually a turd.

This team is real close they have the dollars go get some impact players. Especially this year when a good corner and pass rusher would cost you 10 million combined for 1 year! You're done with the guy after a year it isn't a huge burden on future cap.

They did exactly that at corner, are continuing to work on pass rusher, still have to deal with WR, and maybe RT, plus enhancing depth and are using all of their cap.

I'm a fair weather fan because I realize this is more likely than not the best time for the team we love to get SBs because we have arguably the greater HC and QB of all time?

Who the hell are you to call me fair weather?

I don't know about fair weather, but you are coming off as irrational.
You appear to think that you have a better way to build a team than Bill Belichick but are hiding behind calling a team that spends as much as it is allowed cheap. To back up this bs, you have listed a bunch of players that didn't work out, as if it had any relation to cheap. In one post you said it was stupid to offer 1 year and 10 mill to a FA (which never was offered) because no one would take it then say we should give 2 top FAs 1 year and 5mill each. You are all over the page. If you would calm down and stop sounding like you are spewing hatred in every post, and have a little more thoughtful and balanced way of getting your point across, perhaps it could create discussion., As is you sound like an uninformed whiner who doesn't care in the least if there argument is sound as long as they can feel cool by tossing criticism out there.

Here is a simple test. Since BB took over, how many other franchises do you feel have done better than the Patriots. When you answer that, perhaps you can style your postings to sound as if you recognize that rather than the way you currently do with makes it sound like you are undecided whether the Patriots or Cardinals front office does a better job.

 

[Brady2Moss]

I'm not sure any of those guys could have been had so easily, aside from Bennett (since the others were multiyear deals and I'm not sure if the guaranteed $). But if the Pats do nothing else this offseason I'd agree with you.

As it stands, though, there are still FAs out there, along with Vollmer and Edelman, and possibly Emmanuel Sanders.

Getting back to the topic, though, if they re-sign Vollmer and Edelman, say, and maybe pick up Abraham, I'd understand you possibly questioning their moves. But it wouldn't make them cheap.

I said they weren't cheap in terms of cap dollars, I think they are cheap with individual players in the end they aren't exactly cheap, the OP questioned how you measure it and that's how I do. They spend to the cap I know they do and I call the people that say they don't morons.

I'd like Sanders because I think the FA crop of WR is about dry. If they bring in Vollmer, Edelman, Sanders to go along with Amendola, Talib, WIlson, Abraham that would be a good off season I wouldn't be here crying but half those moves are yet to be made even still.

Honestly the bigger problem I have with the team is wr and cb scouting if they could hit on a wr or cb every other year they wouldn't be in this position they could sit back and extend there guys. They've recently had problems with wr, cb, and pass rush maybe they are figuring it out finally with Jones. I just think they have very little room for error given Brady's window.

 

[Huckleberry1]

But since it works shouldn't they continue?

Management diddnt drop the pass.

If you are talking about Welker you should move it to one of the 8,000 threads already here for crapping on him.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

You don't think this team is one or two players away? They were a miraculous catch and a drop away from winning 2.

All the good free agents are gone the bargains are left so I hope for this teams sake that Bill can hit on them like he did in 2011 instead of the 2012 bargain tour.

What kind of trade can this team make? Revis aint coming Fitz aint coming. Huge trades rarely happen in the NFL.

I understand what you're saying but you're acting as if injuries won't happen and that every "good" free agent we could have spent big money on would have certainly worked out here simply because we spent a lot of money. High priced free agents bust too, it isn't just the mid-level guys.

Are you saying had we signed a top WR and pass rusher we'd be guaranteed a Super Bowl win because we were so close twice? That's not reality. That's why I brought up David Tyree. Jacoby Jones was CRITICAL in the Ravens winning the Super Bowl. Tracy Porter made the play of the game for the Saints. It's not always the big money guys making the big plays.

 

[Brady2Moss]

You cannot really believe that happened. If you do, there is no point having football discussions.


What does that have to do with 'cheap'? It appears we put Abraham on hold to try and get Dumervil. Bennett has issues, which is why the best he could get was 1 yr 5 mill.
Deus Irae's "nugget" was actually a turd.


They did exactly that at corner, are continuing to work on pass rusher, still have to deal with WR, and maybe RT, plus enhancing depth and are using all of their cap.


I don't know about fair weather, but you are coming off as irrational.
You appear to think that you have a better way to build a team than Bill Belichick but are hiding behind calling a team that spends as much as it is allowed cheap. To back up this bs, you have listed a bunch of players that didn't work out, as if it had any relation to cheap. In one post you said it was stupid to offer 1 year and 10 mill to a FA (which never was offered) because no one would take it then say we should give 2 top FAs 1 year and 5mill each. You are all over the page. If you would calm down and stop sounding like you are spewing hatred in every post, and have a little more thoughtful and balanced way of getting your point across, perhaps it could create discussion., As is you sound like an uninformed whiner who doesn't care in the least if there argument is sound as long as they can feel cool by tossing criticism out there.

Here is a simple test. Since BB took over, how many other franchises do you feel have done better than the Patriots. When you answer that, perhaps you can style your postings to sound as if you recognize that rather than the way you currently do with makes it sound like you are undecided whether the Patriots or Cardinals front office does a better job.

You and my definition of cheap are different so we will never agree on that point.

I don't buy that they are getting Dummervil he's too short for their system. If they do I'll eat my crow.

My meaning was that they could have gotten another corner besides Talib to have 2 competent ones for 5 million each.

I am saying that it is stupid to think a prime FA would take 1 year deal, I read it on NFL.com the article has since been taken down or moved I can't find it I tried. My post about getting 2 guys for the price of 10 million was a compromise between this teams desire to get a lot of players instead of putting all their eggs in one basket. This was a year where you could do that. I have no hatred I used to be really optimistic about this team and still am except when it comes to wr, cb, and pass rush this team has a lot of trouble drafting those positions and does not "value" them enough in FA to get top quality players at those positions. if you can't draft them and don't want to sign them, well you are going to have holes at those positions every year, which you have to agree they have had since 2007.

 

[Brady2Moss]

I understand what you're saying but you're acting as if injuries won't happen and that every "good" free agent we could have spent big money on would have certainly worked out here simply because we spent a lot of money. High priced free agents bust too, it isn't just the mid-level guys.

Are you saying had we signed a top WR and pass rusher we'd be guaranteed a Super Bowl win because we were so close twice? That's not reality. That's why I brought up David Tyree. Jacoby Jones was CRITICAL in the Ravens winning the Super Bowl. Tracy Porter made the play of the game for the Saints. It's not always the big money guys making the big plays.

My main point is they need to find a solution to their wr, cb, and pass rush problems if you can't draft them you need to overpay in FA for them or you will always have holes. I don't act like it always works, but honestly it is the only avenue to pursue at this point the old guys haven't cut it for years aside from Carter and Anderson who both had their flaws (Carter an old guy didn't even play in the playoffs which is another problem with the old guys they get hurt more often).

I don't WANT to spend but i think this team HAS to spend unless they fix their scouting of 3 positions that are becoming extremely crucial in this new NFL.