McGinest: "Pats don't take care of their players that are still productive"

[emoney_33]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Do you wake up in the morning and contrive arguments to get in with people on this message board? i swear to god half the threads you post in eventually turn into you and someone else calling each other idiots, morons, cowards, fools, etc. Lighten up man. People disagree, you don't have to get all crazy when it happens. After all, "Fighting on the internet is like competing in the special olympics...even if you win you are still ******ed."

When you put some on ignore, it's pretty childish to go around insulting them. Thanks for arguing any of the many points I've brought to the table in my "arguments" though, you really bring your A game to the discussion. Also nice dig at the mentally handicapped there, classy.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

He had already broken out at that point. And he certainly wasn't mediocre at that point. I remember he was being compared to one of the young bears db's at that point, who also had an extension from the bears, and a lot of people felt the Pats could've made a similar offer, and that would be fair.

I love revisionist history... Asante Samuel sucked in 2005 so bad he wasn't worth a bag of used balls. Granted it was tough playing opposite Duane Starks and absent Rodney Harrison, but elite talent raises the level of everyone around them. Oddly when Starks was replaced by Ellis Freakin' Hobbs III things improved. So much so that Ellis won the starting LCB job in camp in 2006 and Asante began to cry because he wasn't comfortable playing on the right side (in a contract season...). He only regained that spot after Hobbs broke his wrist and moved to the right side continue to play with a cast... Asante couldn't catch a cold before 2006 when an offseason of catching nerf balls resulted in 10 INTS, half of which came courtesy of Rex Grossman and Daunte Culpepper... DESPITE THAT, heading into the 2006 season the NEP offered Samuel an extension reportedly in the $4-4.5M range (after DeShea Townsend turned down their offer of $2.5M to return to his SB team for the same money...). He was insulted. He wanted $6M. Prior to tagging him in 2007 they upped the ante to his desired $6M. Only by then he wanted $9M. So they retained him for $7.8M under the tag and he turned in a thoroughly lackluster SB performance on a team that could have easily landed there without him blowing chunks on 3 seperate plays - any of which had he made them this team wins it's 4th ring.

Aside from that and being a freakin' loner with a chip on his shoulder, he was the bomb... He won't finish that contract in Philly, bank on it. He's not the kind of elite talent that changes the way a team plays or is played and he was not the difference maker the Iggles needed and they know that now.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Thats why I put him on ignore.....most of his dribble is ridiculous

Bodden is NOT a better corner than Asante...thats beyond stupid

Bodden himself thanked Sanchez for giving him 3 of his 5 pics all season,Bodden was decent but far from a stud.

At least Bodden's honest. Asante never thanked the two clowns who sent him to his fist pro bowl, from which all others flow... Bodden is a better cover corner. Asante is a ballhawk who gambles and is getting increasingly burned as a result the farther removed he gets from Belichick.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

When you put some on ignore, it's pretty childish to go around insulting them. Thanks for arguing any of the many points I've brought to the table in my "arguments" though, you really bring your A game to the discussion. Also nice dig at the mentally handicapped there, classy.

Dude, you really need to calm down. All you do is antagonize people, even those who agree with you most of the time. And calling that a "dig" at the handicapped? That's some Palin-esque thick skin you have there.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Dude, you really need to calm down. All you do is antagonize people, even those who agree with you most of the time. And calling that a "dig" at the handicapped? That's some Palin-esque thick skin you have there.

My fault, I didn't know stating opinions while using factual evidence was considered "antagonizing" people around here. I should just fall in line, my bad.

BB sucks, Samuel is the bomb, and Branch is like the greatest receiver in the NFL today!

 

[JackBauer]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

My fault, I didn't know stating opinions while using factual evidence was considered "antagonizing" people around here. I should just fall in line, my bad.

BB sucks, Samuel is the bomb, and Branch is like the greatest receiver in the NFL today!

Well, if you are going to play dumb clearly there is no helping you if you insist on being a tool regardless.

Carry on!

 

[emoney_33]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Well, if you are going to play dumb clearly there is no helping you if you insist on being a tool regardless.

Carry on!

Oh I'm sorry was this supposed to be an intervention? I'm sure there's countless examples of me doing nothing but antagonizing people that you could point me to show me the error of my ways.

Let's not mention the posters who are really the antagonists though.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Oh I'm sorry was this supposed to be an intervention? I'm sure there's countless examples of me doing nothing but antagonizing people that you could point me to show me the error of my ways.

Let's not mention the posters who are really the antagonists though.

Well granting that you lack enough self-awareness to realize that you're antagonizing people in the first place, I'm not sure how useful an intervention would be.

I think your interactions with Deus would be one place to start. Or the fact that every thread you're involved in rapidly turns into a back-and-forth and meaningful discussion sort of gets tossed out with the bathwater.

It's alright, though. Same thing happens to me on the politics forum.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Hall, Flowers, Winfield, Greer, DRC, Joseph, Brown, Bodden...

He's not even the best CB on his team, never mind sniffing the top 5.

Based on the names hes presented, I don't see where emoney is wrong. The numbers proove this.

However, as I've said in another post, you can make a strong case that Bodden had a better year than Asante last year, but overall Asante has had a better career certainly.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Well granting that you lack enough self-awareness ...

Humorous start.

I think your interactions with Deus would be one place to start.

The same Deus that picks fights with anyone and everyone and argues just to argue? The same guy that normally never states his position but nitpicks one or two tiny points and spends 10 pages to tell you how foolish you are for not understanding that he has no point? The same Deus that just got through a drawn out argument with the very level-headed poster, Metaphors, all on the basis of arguing who is better on 2/19?

I do not have to antagonize Deus for him to create arguments at every stop. Ever since Seymour got traded he's gone off the deep end, and argues just to argue. He even argues points that he admits, while arguing, he doesn't even believe.

Or the fact that every thread you're involved in rapidly turns into a back-and-forth and meaningful discussion sort of gets tossed out with the bathwater.

This is just false. I've posted in numerous threads, only one or two have ever gotten off-topic or away from factual discussion. I do my best to stay away from the banter and bait that so many throw around. I admit I have gotten fed up at some points and went too far, but not often.

But then again you can look at my post history and see all this.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Am I the only one getting sick of hearing Willie complaining about the Pats. Seriously, we get that you're bitter about when you were let go. MOVE ON!

 

[woolster22]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

I was in agreement with money on the Asante point. I do not think he is a top 5 CB. Sure he gets great stats as far as picks go, but there are plenty of other corners in the league that simply do a much better job in coverage (bodden comes to mind, for one). Its a tough position to compare players from different teams, as the various schemes being run in the league ask very different things from there players. Asante is a zone coverage cowboy, while players like Revis are simply lockdown beasts. Revis isn't going to give up much, but he isn't going to be grabbing picks as often either (partly due to the fact it isnt wise to test him). On the other hand, Asante will regularly give up the completion, but once a game/every other game he is going to come up with a big play. Apples and oranges.

i think we all just need to take a deep breath. There seems to be a fair amount of bs being spewn by plenty of people. If drama entertained me I'd be watching Jersey Shore or whatever other mindless "reality" tv the various females in my life find entertaining.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Back to Samuel...Anyone who does not think Asante belongs in the top 5 CBs in the league have these reasons....

He is on another team so do the usual and bash him

He will be forever known as the guy who missplayed a near sure game winning interception in SB 42

He left for more dollars to another team

Anyone who says thats not true about the reason to not putting Samuel in the top 5 is simply talking out of thier ass

You're the one who continually talks out your arse regarding Samuel. And these supposed reasons of yours is just more proof.

I have said that Samuel is over-rated by stiffs like yourself since 2 years prior to his becoming a free agent.

1) He goes for the highlight real hit more than he does the tackle.
2) When he had the 10 interceptions for the Pats, it was mainly because the Front 7 was forcing the pressure on the QB. Earthwind Moreland could have made 6 or 7 of those 10 interceptions.
3) Samuel got beat in the SB TWICE by David Tyree. Once for a TD. And once on the catch where Harrison tried to bail out Samuel after he got schooled.

Samuel is not and has never been a Top 5 Corner in the league. You are just being delusional.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

I'm so sick of this kind of nonsense from players. Did Asante 'take care' of the Pats and sign a more reasonable contract? Is Fat Vince going to 'take care' of the Pats and sign here no matter what? NO, No, and NO!

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, Willie. Unless y'all players stop cashing in for the biggest $$ around and thus leave your team in the dust then quit crying when your former team turns its back on you.

BB is made out to be cold-hearted when he insists he'll do what's best for the Pats, but when the players do the same thing everyone nods their heads knowingly and says, I don't blame him for taking the money. Fine, then let's not hear anymore whining about a team doing exactly what 99% of the players plan on doing - taking care of themselves first.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

I'm so sick of this kind of nonsense from players. Did Asante 'take care' of the Pats and sign a more reasonable contract? Is Fat Vince going to 'take care' of the Pats and sign here no matter what? NO, No, and NO!

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, Willie. Unless y'all players stop cashing in for the biggest $$ around and thus leave your team in the dust then quit crying when your former team turns its back on you.

BB is made out to be cold-hearted when he insists he'll do what's best for the Pats, but when the players do the same thing everyone nods their heads knowingly and says, I don't blame him for taking the money. Fine, then let's not hear anymore whining about a team doing exactly what 99% of the players plan on doing - taking care of themselves first.

78% of the owners dont go bankrupt 2 years after retirement...They should get what they can while they can.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

78% of the owners dont go bankrupt 2 years after retirement...They should get what they can while they can.

Fine, then just don't try and blame the owners for players stupidity. Look in the mirror or call 1-800-NFLPA. Or better yet take care of your own college educated self...

The NEP have bent over backwards to take care of players who perform. And even some who didn't always live up to their own hype. This is football, not welfare. These guys are given all kinds of opportunities to continue their education and broaden their post football horizens through mentoring and networking with corporate and media sponsors while consuming 60% of the pie and assuming none of the financial risks inherent in growing it. These self absorbed whiners and their phony union don't give a crap about the welfare of the guys who got them there, including those who worked on and off the field for relative peanuts (and still do comparatively speaking).

 

[TriplecHamp]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Fine, then just don't try and blame the owners for players stupidity. Look in the mirror or call 1-800-NFLPA. Or better yet take care of your own college educated self...

The NEP have bent over backwards to take care of players who perform. And even some who didn't always live up to their own hype. This is football, not welfare. These guys are given all kinds of opportunities to continue their education and broaden their post football horizens through mentoring and networking with corporate and media sponsors while consuming 60% of the pie and assuming none of the financial risks inherent in growing it. These self absorbed whiners and their phony union don't give a crap about the welfare of the guys who got them there, including those who worked on and off the field for relative peanuts (and still do comparatively speaking).

Were going into a different realm so lets get this back on track. People are looking at this as a shot at the Pats, maybe it is, maybe it isnt. Why would a player take less money here when another team values their services higher? Maybe Willie is just shedding light on the situation involving Wilfork and why he may or may not be coming back. I agree with Willie, he hasnt said anything bad about the Pats but now all of the sudden he is some bitter old vet? I dont buy it.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Were going into a different realm so lets get this back on track. People are looking at this as a shot at the Pats, maybe it is, maybe it isnt. Why would a player take less money here when another team values their services higher? Maybe Willie is just shedding light on the situation involving Wilfork and why he may or may not be coming back. I agree with Willie, he hasnt said anything bad about the Pats but now all of the sudden he is some bitter old vet? I dont buy it.

The thing I do not agree with is the players that helped set that foundation, that was links in that chain, that helped you get the championships, I think you're supposed to take care of those players if they can still play and if they're still productive.

He's not beating around the bush, he says it straight up. He believes the team should have "taken care of" (read: overpaid) for the vets that were on the SB teams. He is either willfully ignorant or personally bitter if he can't understand that would be a stupid football and business decision.

He wanted to be thanked for helping win 3 SBs, but he wasn't and he has always felt slighted. That's not the real world, whether it be football or any other business in the universe. In the NFL it's even worse as a football decision with the salary cap as it severely prohibits your current and future teams.

All these players are slighted because a guy that they make a lot more money than wouldn't pay them extra millions that they got elsewhere. A guy like Willie wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

If it was up to them we'd have Law, Milloy, Willie, Vrabel, Woody, Seymour, Branch, Samuel on the team taking up around $100M in Cap and leaving the rest of the team full of nothingness, all the way to happy SB vets and top 5 draft picks.

 

[fgssand]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Don't waste your breath. Deus doesn't respect the business model anymore since Seymour was traded and he decided that not winning every year equates to epic fail.

Bob Kraft spent plenty taking care of his players that are still productive, including building them revenue enhancing, privately paid for state of the art facility that doesn't lock the cafeteria in the offseason...while they were still a ringless wannabe operating in a region where that was the only way they were going to get one. BB always protects his players and deflects blame to the team and himself and his staff. Because he is secure in his own beliefs and has the courage of his convictions. And while he doesn't blow smoke up your skirt to fluff your ego, he also won't respond to ego driven blathering like this. Something perpetually insecure players tend to underappreciate until they land somewhere where playing the self preservation blame game, the second most popular activity in the NFL, has also been elevated to a management art form.

Players want to share the wealth, not the responsibility inherent in generating it. Just like they all want to win only they struggle to be accountable when they don't. A lot more goes into taking care of players that are still productive than overpaying them. This team has performed well enough in this decade that it's players who still equate overpaying with caring can easily find someone else to do that. Willie had no trouble lining up a 3 year deal to underachieve for a moribund franchise with the highest in-house infection rate in the league headed up by a guy stroked Willie's ego by professing he had something left to offer (when he didn't). He (not to mention that coach) owe BB for even putting him in position to choose to do that...

Willie's just pissed because no one, including Bill, came calling after he finished cashing Lerner's checks...and after three years of doing that he's not even on the A list of former athletes turned media pundit any more. Maybe sharpening his knives in Bill and Bob's backs will elevate his media profile... He's lucky you can get away with that here because these guys, and Bill in particular, know what makes players tick and they chalk this malcontent bs up to how hard it is for some of them to lose their stage and the swagger it fostered and be faced with the reality that when they look in the mirror the reflection now staring back at them is suddenly just another guy who used to play football for a dynasty.

The NFL needs someone like the Ghost Whisperer to help these poor tortured bastids cross over into the light peacefully once they pass on, whether it be to another franchise or the dreaded life after football...

You rock Mo...........Deus - not so much.

Stepford fan he called us - well, at least were getting some (or giving some) - Deus, you need to get laid I think (now please, b4 you go nuts, lighten up, I am kidding).

Salaries be damned and disgruntled ex players too -- All I know is that somehow we are a top team and have been ever since BB walked in to take the reigns and the Krafts figured out how to work with a great coach.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

He's not beating around the bush, he says it straight up. He believes the team should have "taken care of" (read: overpaid) for the vets that were on the SB teams. He is either willfully ignorant or personally bitter if he can't understand that would be a stupid football and business decision.

He wanted to be thanked for helping win 3 SBs, but he wasn't and he has always felt slighted. That's not the real world, whether it be football or any other business in the universe. In the NFL it's even worse as a football decision with the salary cap as it severely prohibits your current and future teams.

All these players are slighted because a guy that they make a lot more money than wouldn't pay them extra millions that they got elsewhere. A guy like Willie wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

If it was up to them we'd have Law, Milloy, Willie, Vrabel, Woody, Seymour, Branch, Samuel on the team taking up around $100M in Cap and leaving the rest of the team full of nothingness, all the way to happy SB vets and top 5 draft picks.

I think you're supposed to take care of those players if they can still play and if they're still productive. And I think there's a lot of players that left that organization that was productive, that should still be there, and I don't think they would be in the same position they are today.

He didn't name names specifically so you just speculating. He could be talking about guys like Seymour, Branch, and Samuel whom were all productive at the time of their departures. I doubt hes talking about Milloy or Law since the Pats have won it all without them but again its a speculation.