McGinest: "Pats don't take care of their players that are still productive"

[emoney_33]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

I wouldn't hesitate to call out Deus if I thought he was spouting BS - but that's not the case here.

The Patriots aren't the highest spending team, and they most certainly are not the cheapest. They try to spend money wisely. That means they tend not to overpay, and sometimes that means they may have been pennywise and pound foolish in hindsight.

The "they spend to the cap" argument doesn't come close to capturing the complexities of the NFL salary structure, nor does a snapshot of what a team spent in a given year in bonus money, due to be stretched out over the course of a contract.

a 4-5 year window of what was spent shows you what exactly? Deus is attempting to use that window to prove the Patriots don't "spend" on their players. The fact of the matter is over the long-term they spend the maximum amount allowed. Now if you want to add in total spending including facility, coaching and all the other costs that aren't salary-cap related that's a different story, not the one Deus has been hammering non-stop though.

They spend wisely, and they do not let cap money die. So some years they dish out less than other years, but that's all football team-building value related. The only argument that they don't "spend" as much as other teams is if you are argue that their long-term goal is to push cap into the future forever and NEVER spend it.

For instance one year you might dish out a ton of signing bonus' which puts you high in "money spent" that year, but then in future years you have less money that you are able to spend because the prorated bonus' are sucking up a lot of cap space. In the end, virtually every dime you spend on players counts against the cap. There is no free spending with regards to the cap.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Back to Samuel...Anyone who does not think Asante belongs in the top 5 CBs in the league have these reasons....

He is on another team so do the usual and bash him

He will be forever known as the guy who missplayed a near sure game winning interception in SB 42

He left for more dollars to another team

Anyone who says thats not true about the reason to not putting Samuel in the top 5 is simply talking out of thier ass

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Back to Samuel...Anyone who does not think Asante belongs in the top 5 CBs in the league have these reasons....

He is on another team so do the usual and bash him

He will be forever known as the guy who missplayed a near sure game winning interception in SB 42

He left for more dollars to another team

Anyone who says thats not true about the reason to not putting Samuel in the top 5 is simply talking out of thier ass

Given that many people here didn't consider Samuel a top 5 CB even when he was on the Patriots, I'd say your theory needs some work.

 

[makoute]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Asante was better in 08 than he was in 09 even though he had more picks.

Don't get me wrong. Wish Asante was still here and his 6-8 picks a season, but hes not worth contract he got from the Eagles. He is not a shutdown corner and you can win SBs w/o shut down CBs.

Had the pats offered him a contract prior to his last two years here, he would have cost much less than what he got from the Iggles.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Had the pats offered him a contract prior to his last two years here, he would have cost much less than what he got from the Iggles.

How do you know that they didn't?

The offered him an extension after the 06 season and he sat out and only came back after offering some relief on being franchised following the 06 season.

Asante gave no evidence that he would produce at 06-09 levels during the 05season.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Back to Samuel...Anyone who does not think Asante belongs in the top 5 CBs in the league have these reasons....

He is on another team so do the usual and bash him

He will be forever known as the guy who missplayed a near sure game winning interception in SB 42

He left for more dollars to another team

Anyone who says thats not true about the reason to not putting Samuel in the top 5 is simply talking out of thier ass

Nah, there's a reasonable that can be made that he's not top 5, simply because he's never been particularly good in man-to-man coverage. But what he does, he does very well; well enough that I would put him at #5, behind Revis, Asomugha, Woodson, and Bailey.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Had the pats offered him a contract prior to his last two years here, he would have cost much less than what he got from the Iggles.

Prior to 2006 he wasn't worth an offer. He was mediocre at BEST in his first 2 seasons. He BEGAN to improve in 2005 (though I'd say a rookie Hobbs outplayed him) and made "the jump" in 2006.

So what you're saying is that we should have offered a 3rd year player who was decent and had 2 more years left on his contract an extension? So should we offer Wilhite an extension right now just in case he makes a jump in the next couple of years?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Nah, there's a reasonable that can be made that he's not top 5, simply because he's never been particularly good in man-to-man coverage. But what he does, he does very well; well enough that I would put him at #5, behind Revis, Asomugha, Woodson, and Bailey.

Thats pretty much where I would put him BFTW...Good analysis - Although Bailey has tailed off just a bit lately

 

[makoute]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

How do you know that they didn't?

The offered him an extension after the 06 season and he sat out and only came back after offering some relief on being franchised following the 06 season.

Asante gave no evidence that he would produce at 06-09 levels during the 05season.

He had already broken out at that point. And he certainly wasn't mediocre at that point. I remember he was being compared to one of the young bears db's at that point, who also had an extension from the bears, and a lot of people felt the Pats could've made a similar offer, and that would be fair.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Nah, there's a reasonable that can be made that he's not top 5, simply because he's never been particularly good in man-to-man coverage. But what he does, he does very well; well enough that I would put him at #5, behind Revis, Asomugha, Woodson, and Bailey.

Hall, Flowers, Winfield, Greer, DRC, Joseph, Brown, Bodden...

He's not even the best CB on his team, never mind sniffing the top 5.

 

[N.Eman]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

So so true.

But the Wilfork situation which I'll lump in Peppers has been a 2 year calculation. Seymour was traded and Ron Brace was drafted in order for Peppers to become a patriot.

BB is going to trade Wilfork. Not saying it's the correct decision but it's going to happen, same old song and dance and Willie is dead correct.

Yeh somehow I feel thats coming. Probably tag and then trade 'em. Not the best scenario but hopefully a step in the right direction in fixing the pass rush problem

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

He had already broken out at that point. And he certainly wasn't mediocre at that point. I remember he was being compared to one of the young bears db's at that point, who also had an extension from the bears, and a lot of people felt the Pats could've made a similar offer, and that would be fair.

Look up his numbers, makout. Samuel was a slightly above average CB in 2004 and 2005. From a business-standpoint, he did not deserve a raise or any type of extension that was attributed to his production after the 05 season. He certainly did after the 06 season, but they couldn't reach an agreeement.

Move on, man...

 

[TriplecHamp]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Hall, Flowers, Winfield, Greer, DRC, Joseph, Brown, Bodden...

He's not even the best CB on his team, never mind sniffing the top 5.

How much do you get paid to spew this bullsh*t?

 

[p8ryts]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

On Colin Cowherd Podcast..

Podcast: Former Pats LB Willie McGinest - AFC East Blog - ESPN

Must say his words are a little disrespectful but you have to agree with him for the most part.

Willie is one of my favorite Patriots but it sounds like sour grapes to me. He is saying Bill is supposed to overpay based on what a player is done in the past. Every Patriot that has moved on chose to move for more money, they didn't show the Pats any more loyalty than they showed them.

I can't think of any Patriot expatriate that has done anything great after leaving. Yes, Seymour played good last year but wasn't dominant and the same with Asante Samuel. I saw a two interception game where the ball was thrown right at him and games where he was out of position or just planin got beat. Randall Gay and David Thomas contributed to the Saints as backups.

Bill has sustained a competitive team for a decade in the salary cap error without falling apart and there are very few organizations that can say that.

Quit whining Willie.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

How much do you get paid to spew this bullsh*t?

Thats why I put him on ignore.....most of his dribble is ridiculous

Bodden is NOT a better corner than Asante...thats beyond stupid

Bodden himself thanked Sanchez for giving him 3 of his 5 pics all season,Bodden was decent but far from a stud.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

How much do you get paid to spew this bullsh*t?

I'm sorry, since when is objective analysis backed by facts bullsh*t as compared to the almighty "eye test" that tells you Samuel is top 5? What is it about your analysis that makes you right? Did you study all 16 games of all 32 teams in depth and come to the conclusion that there are not 5 better CBs than Samuel?

 

[emoney_33]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Thats why I put him on ignore.....most of his dribble is ridiculous

Bodden is NOT a better corner than Asante...thats beyond stupid

Bodden himself thanked Sanchez for giving him 3 of his 5 pics all season,Bodden was decent but far from a stud.

If you put me on ignore, then do not address or insult me you spineless coward. Just because people like you cannot accept facts does not make the facts I use "dribble". It's funny that you consider interceptions the only barometer of an NFL CB and then it's also funny you ignore the fact 5 of Samuel's 9 came against terrible QBs in Johnson, Russel and Campbell.

Someone relay that, thanks.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Thats why I put him on ignore.....most of his dribble is ridiculous

Bodden is NOT a better corner than Asante...thats beyond stupid

Bodden himself thanked Sanchez for giving him 3 of his 5 pics all season,Bodden was decent but far from a stud.

Actually there is a solid case to be made that Bodden was better this season than Samuel. Does that mean he's better in general? Who knows. Does it really matter? Probably not.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

Thats why I put him on ignore.....most of his dribble is ridiculous

Bodden is NOT a better corner than Asante...thats beyond stupid

Bodden himself thanked Sanchez for giving him 3 of his 5 pics all season,Bodden was decent but far from a stud.

How often did Bodden get burned for long completions? Samuel's a gambler, so of course he's going to end up with more INTs, but they come at a price. I agree that Samuel's better, but it's difficult to compare two guys with such different strengths.

 

[woolster22]

Re: McGinest: "Pats don't take care of thier players that are still productive"

If you put me on ignore, then do not address or insult me you spineless coward. Just because people like you cannot accept facts does not make the facts I use "dribble". It's funny that you consider interceptions the only barometer of an NFL CB and then it's also funny you ignore the fact 5 of Samuel's 9 came against terrible QBs in Johnson, Russel and Campbell.

Someone relay that, thanks.

Do you wake up in the morning and contrive arguments to get in with people on this message board? i swear to god half the threads you post in eventually turn into you and someone else calling each other idiots, morons, cowards, fools, etc. Lighten up man. People disagree, you don't have to get all crazy when it happens. After all, "Fighting on the internet is like competing in the special olympics...even if you win you are still ******ed."