Massachusetts millionaire 9% tax another factor working against Pats in Free agency

[TheRainMaker]

Can anyone tell me when the last time the Pats or any team weren't able to go into the season with a full roster because not enough players wanted to play there due to the tax rate? The answer is never.

The tax situation is only one factor to consider along with who the coach/staff/front office/Owner is, scheme, how you will be utilized, geography, a dream killing wife (Derrick Mason), the demand you have on the market, etc..

 

[State]

if your salary is $20m/yr, the MA 9% tax = $1.8m/yr. Over a 4 year contract that's $7.2m, it's not a few dollars around the margins.

And that's on top of 37% federal and 2.5% fica/med. Total taxes are therefore 48.5%, so of their $20m salary they only get $10.3m. The $1.8m of state tax is really about 15% of their take home pay.

Up to about 5%, people don't care much about state tax, "it is what it is". 9% is outrageous though, and players will "worry" about it.

Yep. Players are catching on to the prospect of nearly half their earnings being forcibly taken. And they are considering what their effective income would be as a consequence.

Like the Bills Jordan Poyer. 2023 NFL free agency: Bills' Jordan Poyer wants to play in a state 'that doesn't take half my money'
This is being openly discussed when before it was just venting to one’s accountant.

 

[State]

1960-take your garbage somewhere else. Ian has put thousands and thousands and thousands of hours into providing Patriot fans with an excellent forum to talk football, and lunatic extremist @ssholes like you shouldn’t be able to destroy it. Go to 4Chan or one of the many other hate sites that welcome people like you.

You’re rude and inappropriate.

Also for posterity, the states with the most millionaire households in order

1. California

Um, I guess you’re not aware of the mass exodus of the wealthy from California to other states like Florida, Tennessee, Nevada, and Texas.

 

[Ivan]

You’re rude and inappropriate.

Um, I guess you’re not aware of the mass exodus of the wealthy from California to other states like Florida, Tennessee, Nevada, and Texas.

Don’t like it? Too bad. I come here for football, not to see people bang the drum on their political beliefs. And those that do it can expect to get sh.t for it.

 

[Jlaff]

Can anyone tell me when the last time the Pats or any team weren't able to go into the season with a full roster because not enough players wanted to play there due to the tax rate? The answer is never.

The tax situation is only one factor to consider along with who the coach/staff/front office/Owner is, scheme, how you will be utilized, geography, a dream killing wife (Derrick Mason), the demand you have on the market, etc..

But still a factor. If you're effectively making 4.5% more on everything you make over $1 million that's something to consider (you also get one game in Miami a year to offset that a bit).

An economics professor would tell you that on the average the NEP would have to pay free agents 4.5% more for every dollar over $1 million they offer, with all else being equal (which we know it's not based on the other factors you mentioned).

On a macro level, things like a $1-2 thousand drop in the price of a car can lead to exponential growth in sales are the kind of examples that come to mind. For many people on an individual basis, the meagre price drop will mean nothing. But when you average that out over the general population you're still seeing that massive increase in interest in the car.

 

[50-yard-line]

Um, I guess you’re not aware of the mass exodus of the wealthy from California to other states like Florida, Tennessee, Nevada, and Texas.

The people moving into California are wealthier than those moving out. It's not close. The poor and the lower middle class simply can't afford the areas near the coast. I know that a certain world-view paints CA as some giant craphole where everything is falling apart, but contrary to the demagogues (who lie willingly for money and power, as they admit to each other in private texts), it just isn't true.

I bought a house in California 7 years ago - it's almost doubled in value. Whenever an older house goes on the market, it's grabbed immediately, bulldozed and replaced with a beautiful duplex/townhouse that carries double the value of the old house for each unit.

CA has issues, like any other state. It's also the 5th richest state in the country and has the world's 4th or 5th largest economy (climbing from 6th).
The schools are top-notch, the state-college system wonderful, the hiking parks and playgrounds and fields as nice as anywhere, and the money is everywhere. Can't beat the beaches (South Bay is heaven - saw Edelman and Amendola playing catch on Manhattan Beach a few years ago) and the weather is perfect.

Again, all states have problems. CA attracts homeless people because of the climate and hasn't appropriately dealt with the issue, imo. Housing is super expensive and land is tight in the desirable areas.

There's also the issue of water in some areas, which is crippling entire towns inland to the point of turning the tap and getting dust (hopefully, this winter helps with that).

But no, rich people aren't "fleeing" California. I visited a friend in a new Beverly Hills development (you won't touch an outhouse there for under $10m) and they're selling as fast as they go on the market.

 

[50-yard-line]

But still a factor. If you're effectively making 4.5% more on everything you make over $1 million that's something to consider (you also get one game in Miami a year to offset that a bit).

An economics professor would tell you that on the average the NEP would have to pay free agents 4.5% more for every dollar over $1 million they offer, with all else being equal (which we know it's not based on the other factors you mentioned).

On a macro level, things like a $1-2 thousand drop in the price of a car can lead to exponential growth in sales are the kind of examples that come to mind. For many people on an individual basis, the meagre price drop will mean nothing. But when you average that out over the general population you're still seeing that massive increase in interest in the car.

What's the difference between having $25 million and $20 million in terms of lifestyle? Asking seriously.

 

[Jlaff]

What's the difference between having $25 million and $20 million in terms of lifestyle? Asking seriously.

A better question for my ex who would tell me the bare minimum I would have to keep working for before early retirement, lol.

I don't have that kind of money now, but what immediately comes to mind is the number of vacation homes you can carry through retirement and a difference of 20 feet on your yacht. Serious answer.

Edit: it's also the time it takes to continue working to accumulate 25% more wealth.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

These guys seem to care about every dollar for some reason

What's the difference between having $25 million and $20 million in terms of lifestyle? Asking seriously.

 

[Pape]

These guys seem to care about every dollar for some reason

Judson didn't.
HH didn't.
Jonnu Smith didn't.

it may be considered, but its not going to be a determining factor in nearly all cases.

 

[Jlaff]

These guys seem to care about every dollar for some reason

I'll also refer you to my ex.

 

[lancerman]

You’re rude and inappropriate.

Um, I guess you’re not aware of the mass exodus of the wealthy from California to other states like Florida, Tennessee, Nevada, and Texas.

Weird you would think that all those states would have surpassed CA by now in millionaires and billionaires with this exodus. It's almost like you pay for quality.

 

[sambam94]

lol at people defending high tax rates, too funny

 

[patfanken]

It always just a "little more". Or masquaraded as a "fair share". But "fair share" is always just a euphemism for more.

Too big a gap between rich and poor has historically been shown to cause issues. But I'm not so sure those issues will emerge again because the poorest of a nation only have last year's iPhone model.

And those fractions of people with all that wealth do get driven away. Wealthy people are often cheap as hell.

spoken like someone whose only contact with "poor people" is when they are serving you at a restaurant. Talk about clueless and tone deaf. The "wealthy" aren't going anywhere. Why would they, unless they want to rush off to an out of the way Tax Haven. Everywhere else in he industrialized world they'd be paying a LOT more in taxes.

Though I hear Putin is offering a special deal for US millionaires who want to bring their assets to Russia. You should look into it. I'll help you pack.

 

[sambam94]

The people moving into California are wealthier than those moving out. It's not close. The poor and the lower middle class simply can't afford the areas near the coast. I know that a certain world-view paints CA as some giant craphole where everything is falling apart, but contrary to the demagogues (who lie willingly for money and power, as they admit to each other in private texts), it just isn't true.

I bought a house in California 7 years ago - it's almost doubled in value. Whenever an older house goes on the market, it's grabbed immediately, bulldozed and replaced with a beautiful duplex/townhouse that carries double the value of the old house for each unit.

CA has issues, like any other state. It's also the 5th richest state in the country and has the world's 4th or 5th largest economy (climbing from 6th).
The schools are top-notch, the state-college system wonderful, the hiking parks and playgrounds and fields as nice as anywhere, and the money is everywhere. Can't beat the beaches (South Bay is heaven - saw Edelman and Amendola playing catch on Manhattan Beach a few years ago) and the weather is perfect.

Again, all states have problems. CA attracts homeless people because of the climate and hasn't appropriately dealt with the issue, imo. Housing is super expensive and land is tight in the desirable areas.

There's also the issue of water in some areas, which is crippling entire towns inland to the point of turning the tap and getting dust (hopefully, this winter helps with that).

But no, rich people aren't "fleeing" California. I visited a friend in a new Beverly Hills development (you won't touch an outhouse there for under $10m) and they're selling as fast as they go on the market.

glad you like CA, but I wouldn't step foot in that state if you paid me.

 

[Jlaff]

spoken like someone whose only contact with "poor people" is when they are serving you at a restaurant. Talk about clueless and tone deaf. The "wealthy" aren't going anywhere. Why would they, unless they want to rush off to an out of the way Tax Haven. Everywhere else in he industrialized world they'd be paying a LOT more in taxes.

Though I hear Putin is offering a special deal for US millionaires who want to bring their assets to Russia. You should look into it. I'll help you pack.

I already mentioned I left to an offshore tax haven in a previous reply to you. A 2 hour flight away with beautiful beaches and weather year round.

So yes, the wealthy do leave and it's not hard for them to do either.

 

[50-yard-line]

glad you like CA, but I wouldn't step foot in that state if you paid me.

Wouldn't pay you, so no worries.
I'm actually pleased that Fox et al have painted it as a craphole.

 

[50-yard-line]

lol at people defending high tax rates, too funny

High tax rates? When I was in college - the heyday of the middle class - the top marginal rate was 70% for incomes over 100,000 (single), 200,000 (married), which is about 400k/800k in today's dollars.

High tax rates? For the wealthy? Ha!

 

[Pape]

glad you like CA, but I wouldn't step foot in that state if you paid me.

You're missing out then... San Diego is a really cool destination... San Fran is cool, minus the junkies, and the PCH is well worth the drive... I did find Carmel a bit overrated though...

 

[JackBauer]

Wouldn't pay you, so no worries.
I'm actually pleased that Fox et al have painted it as a craphole.

You’ll notice those same people painting California as some hellscape are for some reason not taking up residence in Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Oklahoma, Kentucky…