Massachusetts millionaire 9% tax another factor working against Pats in Free agency

[MrBigglesWorth]

So what happens when you play overseas?

 

[Nunchucks]

To be clear the extra tax is only assessed on dollars made after a million, so the first million is taxed at the normal rate.

And there are lots of good reasons to live in MA. It's relatively safe here. We have fantastic schools and there is stuff to do.

I mean, you get what you pay for. I like visiting NH, especially the White mountains. But other than that, the schools suck, the state services suck, and the property taxes are high.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Public School Rankings by State [Updated August 2023]

worldpopulationreview.com

New Hampshire has the sixth-best public schools in the United States, ranking seventh for quality and sixth for safety. New Hampshire schools have the fourth-highest reading test scores among states and the second-highest median ACT score of 25.1. Additionally, New Hampshire has the fifth-lowest pupil to teacher ratio of about 12-to-1.

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

I actually thought he did a decent job of being Governor of MA. There have been a few Republican Governors in MA who have done good jobs here. I didn't always vote or agree with everything they did, but I could always respect the effort.

Of course the term "Republican" USED to represent a party of fiscal conservatism but could get behind public works and believed in the 2 party system, unlike the election denying, Jim Crow loving, fear mongers, who only believe in elections that THEY win. A party that wants to go back to the 50's, when everyone looked like them, thought like them, and everyone else simply "knew their place" These are the guys who are pissed they lost their privilege and want it back!

I never thought I would live to see anti-semitism end for the most part in my teens, only to watch it rise again 50 years later. I never thought I'd see a lot of things get worse as far as people taking care of people as I have watched over the last 10 years. Social discourse seems to be at an end. He who yells the loudest and has the best weapons rule in the US. We have over one mass shooting a DAY in this country, and the next country on the list has a fraction of that. A FRACTION..

There are a lot of different definitions of what a mass shooting is. I saw one that defined it as 4 or more deaths (not counting the shooter) That stat showed the US had 101 shootings of that description, the next largest number was Germany at 12 over the same period. Other stats define it as 3 or more deaths or injuries not counting the shooter. Under that definition we had over 600 last year.

For the record over 44,000 people were killed by guns last year about 53% by suicide, about 43% are homicides, and the rest are police related and "undetermined". Yet even common sense gun control laws like have to take a course and pass a test like we do to get a drivers licence, or not selling military weaponry to private citizens. or limiting the magazine sizes to 8-10 rather than the dozens you can buy now. Finally make sure dangerous or crazy people cannot buy weapons. But mention any of these simple common sense things to a card carrying member of the NRA and YOU will be the one considered dangerous and crazy. But the fact is the gun industry makes BILLIONS annually so a frightened and scared populous is good for business, even if it isn't good for one's health.

We are the ONLY damned industrialized country in the WORLD that has this problem at even CLOSE to this rate. Why is that?

God I need to stop doing this at 3am. I'm REALLY going to start pissing some people off.

Thank you for your kind answer.

I think Romney's presidential run was the beginning of what we see now with the GOP. Maybe it was just coincidental to the rise of the Tea Party though.

Anyway, I agree with pretty much everything you said.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

To be clear the extra tax is only assessed on dollars made after a million, so the first million is taxed at the normal rate.

And there are lots of good reasons to live in MA. It's relatively safe here. We have fantastic schools and there is stuff to do.

I mean, you get what you pay for. I like visiting NH, especially the White mountains. But other than that, the schools suck, the state services suck, and the property taxes are high.

Everyone with a business to sell will start to move the business headquarters out of MA. Initially there will be extra tax revenue but long term MA will lose $$s. Someone who has built a small business over 30 years and wants to retire will move the headquarters to southern NH 1 or 2 years before selling. People who start and build businesses are resourceful type people. My business partner and I are moving out within 5 years. We would not have made the move except for the 9% tax.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The fact that this is labeled a "Fair Share Tax" is complete and total ********. God forbid people who have earned their money get to keep it.

Once our kids have graduated college we are outta here.

 

[50-yard-line]

if your salary is $20m/yr, the MA 9% tax = $1.8m/yr. Over a 4 year contract that's $7.2m, it's not a few dollars around the margins.

And that's on top of 37% federal and 2.5% fica/med. Total taxes are therefore 48.5%, so of their $20m salary they only get $10.3m. The $1.8m of state tax is really about 15% of their take home pay.

Up to about 5%, people don't care much about state tax, "it is what it is". 9% is outrageous though, and players will "worry" about it.

For the record, I voted against Question 1 - but only because it was poorly written and can hit middle-class business owners, who are already the highest-taxed people in the system.

A person making NET $10m+ isn't going to want for anything. Money makes money. It's so easy to have money in this country. Never pay interest (unless it's to your benefit, which it very much can be), get better deals on big-buck purchases like homes, get special treatment at brokerage houses, etc. A couple of million in excess cash can earn more than the average wage earner (and pay less in taxes on it).

And all those little and mostly hidden fees - gas tax, sales tax, excise tax, licensing, registrations - mean nothing %'wise anymore, whereas those take an actual bite out of the middle and particularly lower economic classes. The perfect example is FICA - a small business owner is going to get hit at 15.3% on the first 160,000k. So the typical, fairly-successful, working hard entrepreneur is paying 15.3% FICA. For someone making 1.6m, however, that % is WAY lower, since the % over 160k is just the Medicare portion.

So I'll hold my opinion that if you're making that kind of bank and whining about taxes, you're lifing wrong. At that point, it's just about ego (make me the highest-paid WR in the league!) and numbers in a bank that become meaningless to your day-to-day life. The difference between making $40m and $47m over a few years is invisible to the person.

 

[lancerman]

Public School Rankings by State [Updated August 2023]

worldpopulationreview.com

New Hampshire has the sixth-best public schools in the United States, ranking seventh for quality and sixth for safety. New Hampshire schools have the fourth-highest reading test scores among states and the second-highest median ACT score of 25.1. Additionally, New Hampshire has the fifth-lowest pupil to teacher ratio of about 12-to-1.

MA is number 1. Aka though the real takeaway is that the North East is the best region of the country for education.

 

[lancerman]

Anyways it's pretty obvious this is a political thread disguised as a football thread.

 

[FCB02062]

came here to see moonbats defending high taxes....not disappointed

 

[PowerRunRevival]

Everyone with a business to sell will start to move the business headquarters out of MA. Initially there will be extra tax revenue but long term MA will lose $$s. Someone who has built a small business over 30 years and wants to retire will move the headquarters to southern NH 1 or 2 years before selling. People who start and build businesses are resourceful type people. My business partner and I are moving out within 5 years. We would not have made the move except for the 9% tax.

My entire life people have been saying that the high taxes in Ma will drive business away and it really hasn’t happened.

The elite colleges mean that Ma has a consistently great talent pool of young workers. Recently that has lead to a biotech boom in the area. Those biotech firms aren’t leaving for NH because of taxes because the elite talent they pull from here doesn’t exist there.

Honestly, I think conservatives have been driven out of the state due to high taxes more than businesses.

Back to the football discussion, I’m not worried about losing out on free agents because of the millionaires tax. The Pats shouldn’t be getting into a bidding war for prospective free agents if they want to have a successful offseason anyway.

 

[Ring 6]

You should really stop reading Truth Social so much.

The level of it and being able to obtain proof may be debatable but there is absolutely no possibility in the world that there are not people in this country cheating during elections, whether using someone else’s ballot, or going door to door to harvest or something even more severe. You only have to exist in America to recognize that there are rabid partisan people who would have not a second thought about cheating to get “their guy” elected.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

My entire life people have been saying that the high taxes in Ma will drive business away and it really hasn’t happened.

The elite colleges mean that Ma has a consistently great talent pool of young workers. Recently that has lead to a biotech boom in the area. Those biotech firms aren’t leaving for NH because of taxes because the elite talent they pull from here doesn’t exist there.

Honestly, I think conservatives have been driven out of the state due to high taxes more than businesses.

Back to the football discussion, I’m not worried about losing out on free agents because of the millionaires tax. The Pats shouldn’t be getting into a bidding war for prospective free agents if they want to have a successful offseason anyway.

You missed the whole point. I was talking about small business owners and you are talking about large biotechnology companies. Apples and oranges. Look at Prop 2.5 and how it transformed MA.

NFL free agents (Hill for example) have said the taxes are important to them. You can ignore their opinion if you want to, but it is their decision to play for the Pats or not, and they are saying they prefer lower tax situations. We will see. I agree it is not a big financial difference, but perception can be tough to overcome.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm sure Zack Wilson vs. Tua had no impact on his decision at all.

At the point that Hill signed with the Dolphins, I don't think it was universally believed that Tua was the better option at QB. At that point, people were talking about whether Tua would be the starting QB for the entire season or would Bridgewater replace him and people were hopeful that Wilson would pull it together and have a year two jump.

 

[Water Boy]

Hey don't blame Ian. IF you want to complain complain directly to me. I'm available. BTW- this wasn't a "liberal" post and it pisses me off that you think you can label something without understanding it and think you can dismiss with a term YOU think is derogatory. There are PLENTY of right wing voices here. Stop whining.

Ian liked your post, which was clearly political and clearly leftist, so I will blame him for the lack of consistency. I was under the impression that discussion of politics was not allowed. If it is great, but again why did he put a stop to political memes in the Meme thread?

BTW Ken, I clearly understood every word of your post. If you find the term "liberal" to be derogatory, my apologies. What term would you prefer? "Progressive"?

 

[PowerRunRevival]

You missed the whole point. I was talking about small business owners and you are talking about large biotechnology companies. Apples and oranges. Look at Prop 2.5 and how it transformed MA.

NFL free agents (Hill for example) have said the taxes are important to them. You can ignore their opinion if you want to, but it is their decision to play for the Pats or not, and they are saying they prefer lower tax situations. We will see. I agree it is not a big financial difference, but perception can be tough to overcome.

i was responding to this part of your post
“Everyone with a business to sell will start to move the business headquarters out of MA. Initially there will be extra tax revenue but long term MA will lose $$s.”

Long term the state might lose revenue from small business owners who make more than $1 mm a year but they will make up for it with revenue from people who make that much at the biotech and the other thriving industries in MA. I’d love to put a friendly wager on whether the state will lose money on the millionaire tax long term, because that seems unlikely.

Anyway, I’m not sure I see the connection between small business moving from MA to NH and players not wanting to sign with the Pats as a free agent other than you are projecting your feelings about the tax on players motivations for signing as a free agent. NH doesn’t have a professional football team. The teams in states with no/less income tax also have worse ranked schools and property value growth/housing market resistance to economic downturns.

Some players might prioritize better schools and likelihood that their homes appreciate in value over the additional tax. It’s hard to know free agent players motivation, especially because it might be different for each free agent.

Personally, I think players motivation for signing will have a lot more to do with the team itself than with the state it’s in but that will be determined by the individual free agents.

 

[stinkypete]

The fact that this is labeled a "Fair Share Tax" is complete and total ********. God forbid people who have earned their money get to keep it.

Once our kids have graduated college we are outta here.

You're being very unDude.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You're being very unDude.

The Dude was a conservative. He quoted George Bush.

 

[Jlaff]

Here's what I think.

COULD the extra tax keep a player from coming to the Pats in favor of a lower taxed state? Sure that's possible, I guess. It probably would be A consideration. But a major one? I think not. A player considers the money of course, but players first and foremost want to WIN. Second they want to go where they will get plenty of playing time so they can get recognition and play in a "system" that can maximize their individual skills. THAT recognition is what allows them to get all the OTHER money that comes with a good NFL career.

As we start to get to an age where the minimum payment is getting close to $1MM/yr we are reaching the point were a 4 year stay at then end of team's bench SHOULD give a player a life time of financial security.,.. if they are smart with that $4-6MM

Now as to taxes in general. 1. EVERYONE hates to pay them, YET everyone wants most of the services that taxes provide. 2. Our "progressive" tax system, isn't at all fair. Upper income brackets have dropped from a top rate of 90% back in the 50's down to around 34% now, which is the LOWEST by far, of any industrialized nation and if you know a multimillionaire who actually pays 34% of their income in federal taxes they should fire their accountant because of VAST loopholes in current tax law allow for massive deductions to the wealthy simply because THEY are the ones writing the hundreds of pages of small print we never see that allow for the wealthy to often pay less than that 34%

Now usually I'd use Trump as an exemplar of a wealthy person who abused the tax system, but I don't want to go down that road. So I'll use a politician I respect and voted for who did it too. Mitt Romney back in 2011 when be published his return prior to his presidential run, it was noticed that HE paid just 14% of his income in taxes. What was even more shocking (and to his credit) left more money on the table that he COULD have deducted. It clearly showed there was something seriously wrong with our tax system when the guy getting $15/hr at the grocery store or the garage is paying around 24%.

So here's the thing. We are STILL the richest nation in the world and given the amount of wealth that is created every year, we SHOULD be able to afford everything we need as far as infrastructure, defense, education, etc IF we were willing to pay our "fair share" But NOT paying taxes has become the national pastime to EVERYONE's disadvantage (except the wealthiest 10%. who essentially write the tax codes to their benefit)

I think i recall it was in the mid 1880's when our nation had it's greatest DISPARITY in the gap between rich and poor in our nation's history. That disparity shrank until 1978 where it that disparity reached its lowest in US history. SINCE 1981 it has consistently grown year after year until our "middle class" has shrunk to almost nonexistence. Now fortunately, I won't live to see it, but if we keep on this path we will soon get to the point where we will get to a 2 class system of haves and have nots

Of course that assumes a global warming catastrophe doesn't wreck the world economy or Donald Trump's lies about the 2020 election (or ANY election he doesn't win) doesn't upend the BEDROCK of our democracy which is our belief in the fairness of our election system. Those LIES, as transparent as they were, made about 30% of Americans believe them DESPITE the evidence to the contrary, and severely has damaged our democracy. To the point, I believe, where we could very well be a one party nation within a couple of decades

People forget that back in 1932 Germany was the most educated and tolerant democracy in Europe. That year Hitler's Nazi party came to power with Hitler as essentially the VP. A year later the Hindenburg was dead and by 1935 democracy was dead in Germany. It can happen THAT quickly. and I'm sure that many in this country would welcome that kind of system....at least of a while.

Sorry that my thoughts on the MA tax situation has veered off the rails into another rant. But my rant is about as much about football as so many on this board lately, so I just want to have my say. Feel free to delete it, or mute it, or whatever we do these days, I won't be offended.

This kind of thinking is why I moved offshore.

"Luxury tax" may have been the final nail for me. After years of working 80+ hour weeks in a high stress field. Saving and investing a large percentage of my income while getting hit with 40%+ tax rates while driving some average old vehicle. When I finally put myself in a position to afford the finer things after years of sacrifice I was punished by having to pay even more to buy things with the money I had left after taxes. I now cap out at a 9% graduated rate and zero capital gains.

What people fail to take into account is that Romney (a loser) is likely paying for all the social services consumed by dozens of these gas stations workers, while the gas station worker might contribute a few thousand a year and cost the government multiple times what Romney costs in government services.

But no one is thanking the Romneys of the world, they're too busy demonizing them while glorifying the gas station worker who costs all taxpayers far more than he produces. What a superficial take on things.

 

[Jlaff]

To be clear the extra tax is only assessed on dollars made after a million, so the first million is taxed at the normal rate.

And there are lots of good reasons to live in MA. It's relatively safe here. We have fantastic schools and there is stuff to do.

I mean, you get what you pay for. I like visiting NH, especially the White mountains. But other than that, the schools suck, the state services suck, and the property taxes are high.

"Fantastic schools" must be a real draw for those millionaires putting their kids in public schools. I hope the Pats are really emphasizing this to potential free agents.