Mario Williams watch

[RobertWeathers]

At this point I would rather have Williams over Jones. Jones is a probowl player during the season and becomes a jag/scrub during the playoffs. 2015-2016 wasn't the firs time he has disappeared when its one and done.

He kicked ass in the 2014 playoffs and was fine last year.

Pretty interesting how folks are ready to dump a guy who led the team in QB pressures last year, averages about 9 sacks a year for his career and is only 26 years old for a over 30 DE who had a bad year.

 

[everlong]

Williams will follow the money just like he did the last contract. He spouted about how he was more concerned with winning and location and then went to Buffalo for the worst of both worlds. Hopefully the Colts overpay his overrated ass.

 

[supafly]

He kicked ass in the 2014 playoffs and was fine last year.

Pretty interesting how folks are ready to dump a guy who led the team in QB pressures last year, averages about 9 sacks a year for his career and is only 26 years old for a over 30 DE who had a bad year.

I think the concern is the expected high cost that it would take to keep him, the fairly high(er) cap hit of almost 8m this year, and his tendency to fizzle out down the stretch every year.

With 2 total sacks in 9 postseason games, it's easy to understand why someone may consider him a different, much lesser player come January. Add in the horrible decision to go above and beyond the already bad decision of "just getting high" during the most important week of the season, and it's understandable why we may ponder Jones' future here.

He seems very talented, but also very inconsistent. That said, it'd be difficult to envision Williams as an actual possibility here.

 

[supafly]

Hopefully the Colts overpay his overrated ass.

Oh jeez, there are a lot of other places I'd much rather see him go than to a contending rival, and I'm obviously using the term loosely after their down year.

Let him go to Oakland or Dallas, or somewhere like that.

 

[everlong]

Oh jeez, there are a lot of other places I'd much rather see him go than to a contending rival, and I'm obviously using the term loosely after their down year.

Let him go to Oakland or Dallas, or somewhere like that.

If he eats up 8-10M/year of their salary cap I'm fine with his going there.

 

[supafly]

If he eats up 8-10M/year of their salary cap I'm fine with his going there.

My concern isn't for him eating up 8-10m of their cap as much as it is seeing him rack up 12-15 sacks and improving their defense.

Obviously, in a perfect world, a rival overpays and he goes there and sucks.

 

[slash83]

He kicked ass in the 2014 playoffs and was fine last year.

Pretty interesting how folks are ready to dump a guy who led the team in QB pressures last year, averages about 9 sacks a year for his career and is only 26 years old for a over 30 DE who had a bad year.

I like Jones just wish he would show up in the playoffs. I don't know how you justify a big contract for someone who pretty much disappears in the playoffs. Just looking for more consistency out of a player who is supposed to be one of the better DEs in the game.

 

[slash83]

The same can be said of Ninko. If we were to do something drastic like let them both go like we did our starting safeties in 2011, I think we would actually make out the same or better by the end of the year with big savings.

Ninko sadly imo is not a starter anymore. Great to have on the team as a situational rusher but last year more often then not he struggled to set the edge in the running game and didn't make much noise in terms of getting after the QB.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think the concern is the expected high cost that it would take to keep him, the fairly high(er) cap hit of almost 8m this year, and his tendency to fizzle out down the stretch every year.

With 2 total sacks in 9 postseason games, it's easy to understand why someone may consider him a different, much lesser player come January. Add in the horrible decision to go above and beyond the already bad decision of "just getting high" during the most important week of the season, and it's understandable why we may ponder Jones' future here.

He seems very talented, but also very inconsistent.

From a micro-perspective, I agree. From a macro-view he has been very consistent. I understand your point, though. He does seem to vanish for a few games here and there....

The police incident is concerning. If the team is in "keep or ship" analysis on him they absolutely need to get to the root of why he acted so irresponsibly and see if it was a one time thing or a dependency issue that they need to factor into their decision.

I agree, though....No question Jones has gone through stretches of being MIA. IMO non-elite player defensive players goes through such stretches and if he is looking for top dollar then the team should absolutely explore looking at how to maximize a return. For example, if they can get a 2017 1st round pick for him then the team seriously needs to consider moving him- especially if it means retaining Collins, High or Malcolm. Also need to keep in mind how the other the negotiations are going. If High, Malcolm and Collins are asking for top dollar and Jones is not, that makes things a bit more muddled.

On the other hand, Jones is slated to be paid $7.4m this year. If he turns in another 2015 and maybe just a little bit more consistent game-to-game production its a great contract for the team. Th downside to that logic is that if he is here in 2016, they would only net a 3rd rd pick for him which is below his value.....

That said, it'd be difficult to envision Williams as an actual possibility here.

It isn't. I have no idea what MW wants for money but I just don't see him here unless it's for $4-5m/per. Pats do not pay big money for over 30 year old FAs.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I like Jones just wish he would show up in the playoffs. I don't know how you justify a big contract for someone who pretty much disappears in the playoffs. Just looking for more consistency out of a player who is supposed to be one of the better DEs in the game.

His playoff history is mixed for sure but it's not abysmal. This past year he showed up vs KC and was quiet vs DEN. He showed up when it mattered vs BAL and Indy and played containment vs SEA in 2014. In 2012 he had a high ankle sprain that he was dealing with and in 2013 as you say he didn't do a heck of a lot as the team played a lot of zone dime vs Luck and PM.

With all that said does he deserve to be the highest paid DE in the NFL? Hell no but he is very, very good player.

 

[IllegalContact]

He kicked ass in the 2014 playoffs and was fine last year.

Pretty interesting how folks are ready to dump a guy who led the team in QB pressures last year, averages about 9 sacks a year for his career and is only 26 years old for a over 30 DE who had a bad year.

not about dumping the guy.......one of capology

after this year, he is going to command 10-12M per year.......with the other players who need to be re-signed, Jones the one who should be at the end of that line behind Hightower, Collins, and Butler

it is arguable, but I would say that Williams is a better player than Jones.....with that in mind, if you can have Williams for less money than Jones and pick up a pretty decent draft pick in the process, then why not? add to that the fact that Williams does not play into comp pick math as a bonus

 

[borg]

Synthetic weed for breakfast?
At least one strike now with the NFL's substance abuse policy.
Some family history with addiction.
These red flags will impact his trade value/ guaranteed money in future contracts.
How excited will Kraft be to fork over huge guaranteed money to this guy? Another weed guy….AHern…..didn't work out so well and that memory/cap deficit was painful.
Maybe an opportunity to "buy low" and extend this guy when he is vulnerable….but I doubt his agent sees the situation as a distress sale.
Tough call………my gut……he rides his contract out in NE and hits FA.

 

[RobertWeathers]

not about dumping the guy.......one of capology
after this year, he is going to command 10-12M per year.......with the other players who need to be re-signed, Jones the one who should be at the end of that line behind Hightower, Collins, and Butler.

it is arguable, but I would say that Williams is a better player than Jones.....with that in mind, if you can have Williams for less money than Jones and pick up a pretty decent draft pick in the process, then why not? add to that the fact that Williams does not play into comp pick math as a bonus

Regardless of your philosophical belief of how to manage the cap and overall roster management in the short/long term, the crux of your position is that you do not think Chandler Jones is in the top 4 or 5 players on this defense nor do you think his is worth $10-$12m/AAV. I don't disagree with that. They simply cannot lose those 3 players.

However at $7.4m next year he will be the 13th highest paid DE in 2016 and as a player who finished 5th in sacks and in the top 10 in hurries and top 20 or so in Qb hits, you could argue that he is underpaid for his position. With that said, because he is a "bargain" does that increase his trade value? Absolutely. Is it good roster management and team economics to have players outperform their contract? Absolutely also. In my view the only way dealing Jones to help the Patriots is if they can get the same or better production from 1-2 players. If they can't get a 1st rounder for him, they might be better off keeping him at $7.4m for 2016 and getting the usual production from him (which is very good) and getting a 3rd for him as a comp pick in 2017.

Williams could be that guy but I'm not sold on him. Not sure if he the wall last year or was stubborn in not buying in to Rex's system. In his prime he blows Jones out of the water....

 

[Marqui]

Just releasing Cannon and restructuring Amendola would open up enough money for Williams. A Jones-Hicks-Brown-Williams (Sheard/Easley rotating) pass rushing front would be almost as good as Denver's.

 

[IllegalContact]

Regardless of your philosophical belief of how to manage the cap and overall roster management in the short/long term, the crux of your position is that you do not think Chandler Jones is in the top 4 or 5 players on this defense nor do you think his is worth $10-$12m/AAV. I don't disagree with that. They simply cannot lose those 3 players.

However at $7.4m next year he will be the 13th highest paid DE in 2016 and as a player who finished 5th in sacks and in the top 10 in hurries and top 20 or so in Qb hits, you could argue that he is underpaid for his position. With that said, because he is a "bargain" does that increase his trade value? Absolutely. Is it good roster management and team economics to have players outperform their contract? Absolutely also. In my view the only way dealing Jones to help the Patriots is if they can get the same or better production from 1-2 players. If they can't get a 1st rounder for him, they might be better off keeping him at $7.4m for 2016 and getting the usual production from him (which is very good) and getting a 3rd for him as a comp pick in 2017.

Williams could be that guy but I'm not sold on him. Not sure if he the wall last year or was stubborn in not buying in to Rex's system. In his prime he blows Jones out of the water....

guys with their hand on the ground don't get sacks or tackles in the rex system......the entire bills unit had half as many sacks

I'm just saying Williams + draft picks for Jones > Jones at a likely lower cost over the next few years

 

[RobertWeathers]

guys with their hand on the ground don't get sacks or tackles in the rex system......the entire bills unit had half as many sacks

You are right that Rex's system isn't a release the hounds pass rush. However, Wilkerson, Richard and Coples all got to the passer fairly consistently when Rex was coach of the NYJ so I think that if he has the guys, he'll let them go after the QB.

I really don't know what the hell happened to BUF's pass rush in 2015. My guesses are that they really didn't like/embrace Rex's system (see Mario) and Kyle Williams' knee issues and lack of availability had a bigger impact on the pass rush than people think.

I'm just saying Williams + draft picks for Jones > Jones at a likely lower cost over the next few years

Your suggestion is not unreasonable.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I like Jones just wish he would show up in the playoffs. I don't know how you justify a big contract for someone who pretty much disappears in the playoffs. Just looking for more consistency out of a player who is supposed to be one of the better DEs in the game.

Jones made the strip sack that won them the KC game, that's as big a play as they get.

 

[varjao]

I would flat out get the 8 Mi Jones is due in 2016 and give it to Williams. He already made a lot of money and hit the 30 wall, maybe they can get a 2 year deal for less than that by year avg. Williams is the better player but Jones is 26 and coming out a rookie contract, it's the nature of business, he will make more or at least 10 Mi a year even collecting meaningless sacks and disappearing in the second half of the season. Let another team get their cap limited by paying that money for Jones.

This hypothetical move makes sense financially and in terms of improving the team/projecting next season.

 

[Marqui]

Jones made the strip sack that won them the KC game, that's as big a play as they get.

That play doesn't count apparently.

 

[chasa]

His playoff history is mixed for sure but it's not abysmal. This past year he showed up vs KC and was quiet vs DEN. He showed up when it mattered vs BAL and Indy and played containment vs SEA in 2014. In 2012 he had a high ankle sprain that he was dealing with and in 2013 as you say he didn't do a heck of a lot as the team played a lot of zone dime vs Luck and PM.

With all that said does he deserve to be the highest paid DE in the NFL? Hell no but he is very, very good player.

he was invisible vs denver. he was such a non factor i honestly didn't know he even played that day. dude had ONE tackle. in the whole game, one solo tackle, no assists.