Malcolm Butler situation?

[mgteich]

I hate to be repeat, but I strongly believe that

the secondary is a major strength with Butler here, and is OK even with an injury.

The secondary is OK without Butler, and an injury away from being average or worse.

We have a fine secondary. There is no reason to change it.

And yes, someone could break the bank, but they won't. They didn't in the preseason, and they won't now. IMHO, the absolute highest is a 2nd (a 3rd is more likely). I'd much rather have the 2019 3rd plus Butler's services for 2017.

And just BTW, Butler has a fine attitude and is NOT a disruption, except on message boards.

 

[mgteich]

BTW, I'm happy that Butler has an incompetent agent. We have him for $4M. With a competent agent, he might be placing elsewhere, or we would he would have cost us much more than $4M.

One idea is that Butler might have signed a 1-year contract for $7M or $8M for someone else, perhaps with a $14M per year option.

 

[mgteich]

If that's the case, then they're better off trying to make things work for the rest of the season.

I agree.

I just don't understand why it is difficult to "make things work". Butler will do his best; it is in his interest to do so.

 

[XLIX]

Dumbfounded to believe that you can rationalize Butler having an agent who dabbles in NFL matters as being competent, akin to someone accused of murder hiring a top notch divorce lawyer for representation..

Never implied or suggested he take less as I do not know his actual value.. Simpson seems to have overvalued Butler's net worth and thought he could strike a deal without knowing all the NFL actors and the NFL playing field..

How so? Butler was an RFA. Any team that wanted him had to sacrifice a #1, which is no small potatoes. They couldn't find a willing team, so they decided to wait a year until he becomes a UFA (which is smart since they know there is 0 chance NE franchises him).

Butler would have done better in every respect if he had a competent agent...

Give me one single way in which Butler would be better right now with a different agent. Do you think having a different agent magically makes other teams willing to give up a #1?

FYI Butler was Simpsons first client, and Simpson defines his role as an agent as a "hobby"... he has only had two clients in the NFL.

I have asked you this question time and again, and you never answer:

In what way would Butler be better off right now with a regular agent? Do you think Belichick would have caved to Rosenhaus? Do you think the Saints give up a #1 if Butler's agent happened to be Steinberg? Gimme a break.

 

[Uptown]

Should we take a chance on CB Jason Verrett next season & PRAY he stays healthy? He can't possibly command too much money based on his injury history? IF healthy, his ceiling is HIGH.

Jason Verrett - Los Angeles Chargers - 2017 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

Jason Verrett Reportedly Out for Season for Surgery on Knee Injury

 

[FCB02062]

Should we take a chance on CB Jason Verrett next season & PRAY he stays healthy? He can't possibly command too much money based on his injury history? IF healthy, his ceiling is HIGH.

Jason Verrett - Los Angeles Chargers - 2017 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

Jason Verrett Reportedly Out for Season for Surgery on Knee Injury

No. Pats have enough players with serious injury history....

 

[Uptown]

No. Pats have enough players with serious injury history....

When has that ever stopped them?

 

[DarrylS]

In what way would Butler be better off right now with a regular agent? Do you think Belichick would have caved to Rosenhaus? Do you think the Saints give up a #1 if Butler's agent happened to be Steinberg? Gimme a break.

Here is a suggestion if and when you are confronted with a legal issue, find an attorney suggested by Aunt Tilly, the one who auntie thinks is a great kid who worked hard and needs the business..

Steinberg and Rosenhaus, may have not had better results, but at least they know the rules and the players in the front offices within the NFL, they may have told Butler to stand pat instead of the unsuccessful shenanigans of Simpson that were idiotic for him to pursue... I stand by what I contend that if Butler had a more seasoned and qualified agent the outcome may have been much different..

IMO it is foolish in any legal issue to find a "guy" who might be well versed in one aspect of the law, to pursue an area he/she is not familiar with..

 

[maineman209]

@XLIX , @DarrylS

Derek Simpson became a certified NFL agent before the 2012 draft, 2 years before he began representing Butler. He represents several NFL players.

http://sportsagentblog.com/2015/02/...simpson-closes-2014-nfl-season-on-super-note/

 

[RayClay]

@XLIX , @DarrylS

Derek Simpson became a certified NFL agent before the 2012 draft, 2 years before he began representing Butler. He represents several NFL players.

http://sportsagentblog.com/2015/02/...simpson-closes-2014-nfl-season-on-super-note/

Before representing Hinds Community College and Division II West Alabama product Butler, Simpson acquired several clients who spent their time playing college football for the Alabama Crimson Tide, but unfortunately, none of them made an NFL roster

 

[maineman209]

I should have been clearer. Simpson now (five years later) represents several current NFL players.

 

[RayClay]

I should have been clearer. Simpson now (five years later) represents several current NFL players.

Because he already represented Butler. As the agent says in the article, if Butler had not been offered a contract, the agent would have had to quit, he was broke.

Everybody has to learn somewhere.

 

[XLIX]

Here is a suggestion if and when you are confronted with a legal issue, find an attorney suggested by Aunt Tilly, the one who auntie thinks is a great kid who worked hard and needs the business..

Steinberg and Rosenhaus, may have not had better results, but at least they know the rules and the players in the front offices within the NFL, they may have told Butler to stand pat instead of the unsuccessful shenanigans of Simpson that were idiotic for him to pursue...

Wtf are you taking about??! What “shenanigans”? He was a RFA with a 1st round tender. He visited another team - as is his right to do - but they didn’t make an offer. He didn’t miss camp, he didn’t hold out. He hasn’t said a single thing negatively towards the team, the coach, the owner. There has been absolutely zero ugliness here.

You have no clue about Patriot history if you think Butler has done anything wrong or unusual. Would you prefer he pulled a Logan Mankins or Ty Law?

Your obsessive hatred of Butler’s agent stems from the simple fact that he didn’t accept pennies on the dollar from the Patriots.

 

[maineman209]

Because he already represented Butler. As the agent says in the article, if Butler had not been offered a contract, the agent would have had to quit, he was broke.

Everybody has to learn somewhere.

Still, unlike how he's often been characterized, Simpson was not a complete rookie as an agent before taking on Butler in 2014, and he was not still some amateur "dabbler" when representing Butler this past spring.

 

[DarrylS]

Wtf are you taking about??! What “shenanigans”? He was a RFA with a 1st round tender. He visited another team - as is his right to do - but they didn’t make an offer. He didn’t miss camp, he didn’t hold out. He hasn’t said a single thing negatively towards the team, the coach, the owner. There has been absolutely zero ugliness here.

You have no clue about Patriot history if you think Butler has done anything wrong or unusual. Would you prefer he pulled a Logan Mankins or Ty Law?

Your obsessive hatred of Butler’s agent stems from the simple fact that he didn’t accept pennies on the dollar from the Patriots.

No one mentioned hatred, just concern that Butler would have chosen a rookie labor attorney to deal with the parties involved.. you keep saying hatred of his attorney, my concern is for Butler that he did not have a experienced NFL agent by his side, and because of this he did not accomplish his goals last year..

Have you ever negotiated a contract?? When I was working was part of union negotiating teams on several contracts, you do not enter into negotiations with someone who has no idea of the playing field.. to have gone into any session with a rookie labor attorney, would have been folly, we would have never begun the session.

 

[XLIX]

No one mentioned hatred, just concern that Butler would have chosen a rookie labor attorney to deal with the parties involved.. you keep saying hatred of his attorney, my concern is for Butler that he did not have a experienced NFL agent by his side, and because of this he did not accomplish his goals last year..

And I keep asking you what he should have done that he didn’t do.

And you keep ignoring those questions.

Butler was a RFA. He had no leverage. Even the most experienced agent on the planet wouldn’t have changed that. They made the decision to play out the rookie deal plus the RFA tender year and then hit the open market. There is absolutely no incompetence on display from the player or his counsel.

Have you ever negotiated a contract?? When I was working was part of union negotiating teams on several contracts, you do not enter into negotiations with someone who has no idea of the playing field.. to have gone into any session with a rookie labor attorney, would have been folly, we would have never begun the session.

Your union negotiating has zero relevance here. Nobody - not one single team - is going to avoid Butler because of his agent.

 

[mgteich]

Perhaps it Butler who is incompetent in the ways of life.

The issue is clear. Butler hired an attorney with no experience in negotiating NFL contracts. It is the equivalent of hiring a tax lawyer to defend you in a murder case.
Perhaps, he shouldn't have bothered to hire a lawyer, if there was no leverage and no point.

We can speculate that a qualified lawyer would have been useless. However, that is speculation. Many, many times, posters have been surprised at deals.

And I keep asking you what he should have done that he didn’t do.

And you keep ignoring those questions.

Butler was a RFA. He had no leverage. Even the most experienced agent on the planet wouldn’t have changed that. They made the decision to play out the rookie deal plus the RFA tender year and then hit the open market. There is absolutely no incompetence on display from the player or his counsel.
Your union negotiating has zero relevance here. Nobody - not one single team - is going to avoid Butler because of his agent.

 

[DarrylS]

And I keep asking you what he should have done that he didn’t do.
And you keep ignoring those questions.

Butler was a RFA. He had no leverage. Even the most experienced agent on the planet wouldn’t have changed that. They made the decision to play out the rookie deal plus the RFA tender year and then hit the open market. There is absolutely no incompetence on display from the player or his counsel.
Your union negotiating has zero relevance here. Nobody - not one single team - is going to avoid Butler because of his agent.

You are a lot naive on this, anyone who goes into any negotiations with an inexperienced labor litigator is a fool.. not sure of the outcome if Butler had a different/more experienced agent, but his attorney chose to do all of this in the press and that is a very poor way to deal with any Patriots issue...

Never intimated that a team would avoid Butler because of his agent, the reality is that Simpson did not have the relationships with the decision makers in the teams that he was dealing with..

Butler did not have much leverage, but he also had an agent who does not completely understand the playing field and does not have the internal contacts in organizations that could facilitate his intent..

My experience with an very good labor attorney has everything to do with this, as when you sit at any negotiating table games are played in order for either side to achieve their goal.. to do any of this with an agent who dabbles in the business of the NFL is very naive on the part of Butler.

No one knows the outcome, but during the process it was apparent that Simpson was ill prepared for this advocacy, as he was using the press to leverage the Patriots.. which is a rookie mistake.

It is not what Simpson did or did not do, it is about Butler's choice in selecting a rookie NFL agent who dabbles in this business..

 

[XLIX]

You are a lot naive on this, anyone who goes into any negotiations with an inexperienced labor litigator is a fool.. not sure of the outcome if Butler had a different/more experienced agent, but his attorney chose to do all of this in the press and that is a very poor way to deal with any Patriots issue...

Yes, this is the very first time we've seen an agent use the press for his client. It has absolutely never happened before. No experienced agent would ever go to the media to discuss a contract situation. Nope. Never ever.

Butler did not have much leverage, but he also had an agent who does not completely understand the playing field and does not have the internal contacts in organizations that could facilitate his intent..

This is a completely worthless comment, which makes zero sense whatsoever.

My experience with an very good labor attorney has everything to do with this,

Your experience with a labor attorney has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Bottom line is this: Butler faced a decision many players face in their careers, which is to take short term guarantees or play out their current deal in order to get long term gains. They decided to pursue the long term gains.

If you were being honest, you'd admit that if Butler took pennies on the dollar from NE, you'd be talking about what a genius that very same agent is.

 

[SalemPats]

I thought Butler was great yesterday