Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[Simpelton]

I am still laughing at those who think Butler is in fact Superman, Deion Sanders and Larry Wildcat Wilson all rolled into one, and BB forgot that guy was standing next to him on the sidelines, ready for action. I don't feel Butler would have made much difference. It's stunning to me the connection people have with Butler from SB 49. I get it, but you can't have that in your head and just assume it means the same thing in February of 2018.

I think it's a faith thing. I have faith that Belichick wouldn't have messed with Butler for anything but a very serious reason, at least in his own mind. Belichick may play favorites a bit, but he's not going to shoot himself in the foot on purpose.

This is not "I'm sure he had his reasons." This is "Bill would ABSOLUTELY NOT HAVE DONE THIS unless he felt he had NO CHOICE WHATSOEVER." It goes so entirely against his character that something had to have happened that either transcends football, which for Bill I'd have to wonder exactly what that could possibly have been, or if he was convinced that there was no value whatsoever in playing Butler.

Anything that I honestly think bill would consider grounds for an action that drastic, I'm OK with the benching. I can't imagine him not giving Butler every chance. We've had toxic people on the team before and won with them. This is NOT a boy scout troop, and Bill knows that. The standard that would have to be breached for me to see Belichick sacrificing his best chance to win to make a statement is so high, that I'm actually almost automatically OK with it exactly because I know he'd never do such a thing unless he felt he had no choice at all.

 

[Simpelton]

The closest thing I could think of that would have made this personal for Belichick, is if Butler not only got into a fight with a coach, which has been rumored, but if that coach was Steve. But since BB said it wasn't disciplinary, I'm going to assume that didn't happen.

 

[chasa]

He's moved on to 2018. Nothing left to talk about.



Nailed it. Great post. This should be the final post on this AND the Butler thread.

Can we move this to the Butler thread?

unfortunately this is going to be a talking point until the patriots win another superbowl.

 

[Kontradiction]

Above all else in his life, BB doesn't go "full ******" in a championship game. You can cross that option off the list.

Until we know the actual reason why it happened, it’s something that has to be considered.

 

[Kontradiction]

The closest thing I could think of that would have made this personal for Belichick, is if Butler not only got into a fight with a coach, which has been rumored, but if that coach was Steve. But since BB said it wasn't disciplinary, I'm going to assume that didn't happen.

If it wasn’t disciplinary, and was truly a football decision, then BB needs his mental faculties checked. Especially once he started to see how ineffective the Big Nickel was at halftime.

 

[Simpelton]

If it wasn’t disciplinary, and was truly a football decision, then BB needs his mental faculties checked. Especially once he started to see how ineffective the Big Nickel was at halftime.

"football decision" is more than Xs and Os you know. If you've got it in your head that "football decision" only means consideration of onfield tactics, then you're simply wrong.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

unfortunately this is going to be a talking point until the patriots win another superbowl.

Due to Felger/Mazz, ESPN, etc, and their minion group contingent.

This is sort of why other fanbases hate us. We're spoiled rotten and comments like this above are just ridiculous.

IF we get back to the SB next year, no one will care. What people will care about is health and how well they can execute.

SBs in the cap era are coin toss scenearios. It's a bit unrealstic to believe since we trot out Brady and BB is our coach, that we show up and win.

This will give then 2018 club a nice big carrot all year to be hungry and stay focused on the prize, hopefully with improved health.

The AFC blows right now and NE has a direct B Line back to the SB, if they can stay healthy, which if the pattern, holds, based on odds alone, has been the case in the even numbered seasons.

We technically had no business in the 2013 or 2015 title games and we certainly saw them battle this year to fight through some key injuries, too. Not excuses, but every other team i nthis league's depth is either non-existent or weak. At least we had some depth in spots to work with there.

90% of the league is rebuilding, is a paper tiger/fraud or mediocre.

 

[Kontradiction]

"football decision" is more than Xs and Os you know. If you've got it in your head that "football decision" only means consideration of onfield tactics, then you're simply wrong.

Where are you getting this official definition from? Because football decision typically translates to a decision that is best for the team ON THE FIELD. We now have the results to prove that this wasn't the best decision on the field of play. I've gone over why already.

 

[IllegalContact]

Unfortunately I have to agree, and I love the guy for one of the biggest defensive plays we will ever see in our lifetime.

Butler is a good CB. But let's just say I doubt Belichick benches Richard Sherman or Darrelle Revis in his prime. Butler is not on the level of a great corner and never was.

doesn't have to be sherman or revis .......... all that was needed was better than bademosi and richards.........case closed, my point wins again

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I think it's a faith thing. I have faith that Belichick wouldn't have messed with Butler for anything but a very serious reason, at least in his own mind. Belichick may play favorites a bit, but he's not going to shoot himself in the foot on purpose.

This is not "I'm sure he had his reasons." This is "Bill would ABSOLUTELY NOT HAVE DONE THIS unless he felt he had NO CHOICE WHATSOEVER." It goes so entirely against his character that something had to have happened that either transcends football, which for Bill I'd have to wonder exactly what that could possibly have been, or if he was convinced that there was no value whatsoever in playing Butler.

Anything that I honestly think bill would consider grounds for an action that drastic, I'm OK with the benching. I can't imagine him not giving Butler every chance. We've had toxic people on the team before and won with them. This is NOT a boy scout troop, and Bill knows that. The standard that would have to be breached for me to see Belichick sacrificing his best chance to win to make a statement is so high, that I'm actually almost automatically OK with it exactly because I know he'd never do such a thing unless he felt he had no choice at all.

I just don't think it's that hard to figure out with all the info presented by people who have good info.

It doesn't matter what I, you or Joe Blow vocal Pats fan guy thinks. It matters what BB thinks. I';ll take BB's feel for the team and his intuition, the buttons he pushes with whom and why, all day long over anyone else's way. He's the best ever. He's so great at it, we expect him to be this perfect human, which is impossible.

Do I agree with every single move he makes? Nope. But, if he did lack trust with Butler, with Butler's commitment and focus, which is now sort of easy to understand, then that's what it is.

Again, when you have a problem, you fix it at its root. Butler's crying and apparent dejection about not getting a long term deal, clearly had an effect on his psyche.

Seriously. Who cries before a big game like that, when being told you're not necessarily starting? The crying comes from his realization that he wouldn't be able to contribute with a band on his way out the door. I mean, I get it, but good grief. I have never seen a pro athlete cry before a SB tied to that situation.

Just bizarre. For all the people bashing BB or wanting answers, why not ask Butler why he cried?

I mean, where was his head there? Doesn't that prove BB was right?

 

[IllegalContact]

Where are you getting this official definition from? Because football decision typically translates to a decision that is best for the team ON THE FIELD. We now have the results to prove that this wasn't the best decision on the field of play. I've gone over why already.

this is what you get with people attempting to read between some really really basic lines.......which typically happens when protecting a POV rather than actually getting to a point

 

[IllegalContact]

I just don't think it's that hard to figure out with all the info presented by people who have good info.

It doesn't matter what I, you or Joe Blow vocal Pats fan guy thinks. It matters what BB thinks. I';ll take BB's feel for the team and his intuition, the buttons he pushes with whom and why, all day long over anyone else's way. He's the best ever. He's so great at it, we expect him to be this perfect human, which is impossible.

Do I agree with every single move he makes? Nope. But, if he did lack trust with Butler, with Butler's commitment and focus, which is now sort of easy to understand, then that's what it is.

Again, when you have a problem, you fix it at its root. Butler's crying and apparent dejection about not getting a long term deal, clearly had an effect on his psyche.

Seriously. Who cries before a big game like that, when being told you're not necessarily starting?

Just bizarre. For all the people bashing BB or wanting answers, why not ask Butler why he cried?

I mean, where was his head there? Doesn't that prove BB was right?

you have not presented any good info to date

 

[IllegalContact]

Due to Felger/Mazz, ESPN, etc, and their minion group contingent.

This is sort of why other fanbases hate us. We're spoiled rotten and comments like this above are just ridiculous.

IF we get back to the SB next year, no one will care. What people will care about is health and how well they can execute.

SBs in the cap era are coin toss scenearios. It's a bit unrealstic to believe since we trot out Brady and BB is our coach, that we show up and win.

This will give then 2018 club a nice big carrot all year to be hungry and stay focused on the prize, hopefully with improved health.

The AFC blows right now and NE has a direct B Line back to the SB, if they can stay healthy, which if the pattern, holds, based on odds alone, has been the case in the even numbered seasons.

We technically had no business in the 2013 or 2015 title games and we certainly saw them battle this year to fight through some key injuries, too. Not excuses, but every other team i nthis league's depth is either non-existent or weak. At least we had some depth in spots to work with there.

90% of the league is rebuilding, is a paper tiger/fraud or mediocre.

still looking at zero good info to date

 

[lancerman]

Unfortunately I have to agree, and I love the guy for one of the biggest defensive plays we will ever see in our lifetime.

Butler is a good CB. But let's just say I doubt Belichick benches Richard Sherman or Darrelle Revis in his prime. Butler is not on the level of a great corner and never was.

This is a lazy way to look at it.

Butler was still at WORST our 2nd best CB and he was a good deal above whoever was 3rd (Rowe). He also played nearly every defensive snap every game. So you had one of our best CB's and the defender we had on field more than anyone else on our defense off. That meant that for the first time in the season you were forced to consisently go to our 3rd, 4th, and 5th CB's. So guys like Rowe, Bademosi and Richards are on the field more and covering guys they wouldn't cover in a normal situations. Rowe isn't even that bad, but Rowe should not have been on the guys he was asked to cover. And you can't say Butler was a better option there.

Then because of that you had schemes that had Chung playing off position. And all the alignment issues that caused.

Butler not being in the game is more than just saying "well Butler isn't Revis or Sherman". It had a tremendous impact on our entire secondary. A secondary got torched. And quite frankly Belichick thought Butler was good enough to play more snaps than anybody every game of the season. Quite frankly we know in the AFCCG that other coaches thought enough of Butler to plead their case to BB so he would play.

 

[Soliel]

I just don't think it's that hard to figure out with all the info presented by people who have good info.

It doesn't matter what I, you or Joe Blow vocal Pats fan guy thinks. It matters what BB thinks. I';ll take BB's feel for the team and his intuition, the buttons he pushes with whom and why, all day long over anyone else's way. He's the best ever. He's so great at it, we expect him to be this perfect human, which is impossible.

Do I agree with every single move he makes? Nope. But, if he did lack trust with Butler, with Butler's commitment and focus, which is now sort of easy to understand, then that's what it is.

Again, when you have a problem, you fix it at its root. Butler's crying and apparent dejection about not getting a long term deal, clearly had an effect on his psyche.

Seriously. Who cries before a big game like that, when being told you're not necessarily starting? The crying comes from his realization that he wouldn't be able to contribute with a band on his way out the door. I mean, I get it, but good grief. I have never seen a pro athlete cry before a SB tied to that situation.

Just bizarre. For all the people bashing BB or wanting answers, why not ask Butler why he cried?

I mean, where was his head there? Doesn't that prove BB was right?

That’s a good point. I didn’t put that together in my mind that the deal with him crying is kind of telling on where his mind was. I’m a synic and think he cried because he wouldn’t be able to use the super bowl to show his stuff and up the interest in signing him. He played kinda so so all year and was irritated over his contract. This is all hard stuff because I still wish they would have tried using him but not knowing exactly what the deal is makes it an impossible thing to know

 

[Chris Stevenson]

you have not presented any good info to date

What kind of info would you like? You haven't done your homework.

That's certainly not my problem. I know who is a good source for beatwriters and who isn't. Put it altogether, and you surmise the basics as to what happened.

Their info is accurate and consistent and that's really all I need to know. The flu I questioned, but it was confirmed as real.

Why aren't you more annoyed with Butler? Just curious. He couldn't quite keep his mental mindset together, because he rejected 7 mil per (approx reported average) and Butler himself said he wanted to retire a Patriot.

His agent is a confirmed moron who never negotiated an NFL deal before. Why do I need to keep repeating known facts for you? This info is available anyone.
You're coming across like a troll/Pats Hater type that still so badly wants to believe Spygate and Deflategate to be real, even though there is tons of info at our disposal to learn that they are framejobs by a cheating commissioner.

I can't force you to learn. That's up to you.

 

[sb1]

doesn't have to be sherman or revis .......... all that was needed was better than bademosi and richards.........case closed, my point wins again

That's not really what I said- I said I highly doubt BB would have benched those elite guys in their prime. People are talking like Butler is elite but that doesn't mean he is anything close to it. Clearly judging by Bill's decision he does not believe Butler is an elite corner either and IMO he is correct.

There's no reason to guarantee that Butler would be "better" than those guys in that game either. He was on the field in the Chiefs game and he saw his defense get lit up for over 500 yards. He played poorly too. Clearly didn't make much difference there so it's quite possible BB had the opinion this would be more of the same.

 

[lancerman]

The closest thing I could think of that would have made this personal for Belichick, is if Butler not only got into a fight with a coach, which has been rumored, but if that coach was Steve. But since BB said it wasn't disciplinary, I'm going to assume that didn't happen.

The problem with the rational is that if it was something that serious and he felt like he had no other choice, then why did he..

1. Dress Butler anyways. You're telling me it was so bad he just could not in good conscious play him, but you kept him on the roster for the game anyways? Why? Just in case? So your morality is only a "just in case" thing? There's really no justification for dressing him if that's the issue and it makes me think less of him if he felt strongly enough to risk the Super Bowl, but not strongly enough to deal with the consequences of not having him on the sideline.

2. If it was that bad, why would anyone on the roster do him a solid and not bring it up?

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

We will never get a clear answer from bill. I still feel the guy deserved to play at least in his final game as a patriot. He made one of the biggest plays in super bowl history.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

That’s a good point. I didn’t put that together in my mind that the deal with him crying is kind of telling on where his mind was. I’m a synic and think he cried because he wouldn’t be able to use the super bowl to show his stuff and up the interest in signing him. He played kinda so so all year and was irritated over his contract. This is all hard stuff because I still wish they would have tried using him but not knowing exactly what the deal is makes it an impossible thing to know

Well, how many times have we seen a BB "starting lineup" where it means nothing with how the game goes? I mean, Eric Lee "started", but so many times BB shows a team something schematically, to see how they react.

The crying from Butler sort of proves he knew he was wrong with whatever his antics were.

In SB 39, we came out in a 4-3 base, which never saw all year. This meant one of the 4 starting LBs didn't "start". Did that player cry over it? No.

Again, disappointing from Butler, and it's pretty clear that may be one of they reasons as to why BB was in no way shape or form going to go to a 4 year deal with him.

If you look at ANY high profile CBs deals here, he never goes for years on those. I was a Leigh Bodden guy when he was in Cleveland and Detroit, and I loved that move and the 1 year prove it deal, but the guy had a career ending back injury, where BB sort of got burned on it.

Revis's deal, no Gilmore's, BB pays, but he won't give years.