Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[IllegalContact]

Agaimn, the X factor is what the actual alternatives were. You seem to be of the opinion that one of the alternatives was playing Butler. I'm of the opinion that that remains to be seen. There are a number of possible reasons why that option could have proven to be illusionary.

yes.....which is why he played 98% of the defensive snaps for the entire season and playoffs prior to the SB...........the only illusion here is that there is logic behind not playing him for a single defensive snap......feel free to prove otherwise

 

[Simpelton]

Playing Butler was an alternative until we hear otherwise what was happening that was serious enough to tank the Super Bowl. He dressed, after all. That’s an alternative.

It's the appearance of an alternative.

 

[Simpelton]

yes.....which is why he played 98% of the defensive snaps for the entire season and playoffs prior to the SB...........the only illusion here is that there is logic behind not playing him for a single defensive snap......feel free to prove otherwise

2 or 3 large assumptions on your part in this post.

 

[Kontradiction]

It's the appearance of an alternative.

No, it’s an alternative. He dressed for a reason, even if it was to be a back-up in the event of an injury. So that’s an alternative no matter what level you want to argue that on.

 

[IllegalContact]

It's the appearance of an alternative.

like the starting CB dressed on the bench? all you have to do is watch the game for proof that it was a mistake not to play him.......the only 'appearance' is that he needed to not play but still dress

 

[IllegalContact]

2 or 3 large assumptions on your part in this post.

they're actually not assumptions at all compared to your 'I don't know what' fantasy

 

[Huckleberry1]

If that's the case, it must have been EXTREMELY serious for Belichick to essentially destabilize the strength of the defense, make the entire unit a weakness, and to keep him off the field when the unit was getting lit up like Sonny Corleone at a toll booth. I'm of the wait and see approach and don't really have a dog in the fight either way until more information comes out (and I suspect it will in the coming months).

I agree, imo Butler crossed a line that cannot be crossed. To me the most obvious would have been that he simply lost his sh.t and got into a physical altercation with a coach, which is a line that cannot be crossed. I don’t believe the benching was whimsical by any means, and, as I said before, while Butler was completely comfortable saying what he didn’t do, which I will take him at his word on, he would not say what he actually did, which would only be understandable if it were so serious that it would really damage him going into free agency.

I will be really interested to see what kind of run, if any, that Matt Patricia makes at him in free agency. If he thinks Butler is as good as Butler believes he has s then I would expect Detroit to make a serious bid for him. Either way that will be telling imo.

 

[Kontradiction]

I agree, imo Butler crossed a line that cannot be crossed. To me the most obvious would have been that he simply lost his sh.t and got into a physical altercation with a coach, which is a line that cannot be crossed. I don’t believe the benching was whimsical by any means, and, as I said before, while Butler was completely comfortable saying what he didn’t do, which I will take him at his word on, he would not say what he actually did, which would only be understandable if it were so serious that it would really damage him going into free agency.

I will be really interested to see what kind of run, if any, that Matt Patricia makes at him in free agency. If he thinks Butler is as good as Butler believes he has s then I would expect Detroit to make a serious bid for him. Either way that will be telling imo.

If that’s the case, then I can kind of see it. But benching him for going out or any of the other reasons that were floated is asinine. Especially when your goal is to win games and, ultimately, championships. If it was for less than that or if it truly was a football decision, then Belichick chose a bad time to go full ******.

 

[Soliel]

I hope that’s the case. If he didn’t do something crazy then it’s a Hindenburg style disaster to not play him.

 

[IllegalContact]

I agree, imo Butler crossed a line that cannot be crossed. To me the most obvious would have been that he simply lost his sh.t and got into a physical altercation with a coach, which is a line that cannot be crossed. I don’t believe the benching was whimsical by any means, and, as I said before, while Butler was completely comfortable saying what he didn’t do, which I will take him at his word on, he would not say what he actually did, which would only be understandable if it were so serious that it would really damage him going into free agency.

I will be really interested to see what kind of run, if any, that Matt Patricia makes at him in free agency. If he thinks Butler is as good as Butler believes he has s then I would expect Detroit to make a serious bid for him. Either way that will be telling imo.

understandable from a disciplinary standpoint, but not by the insisted statement "we put the team in the best position to win" if indeed it was about discipline.....can't have it both ways......based on the skill set he carried through the AFCC, he could have helped.

however, if it was indeed disciplinary, then he should not have been dressed

 

[Kontradiction]

I hope that’s the case. If he didn’t do something crazy then it’s a Hindenburg style disaster to not play him.

It essentially created mismatches in the secondary. Chung cover Agholor instead of Ertz in man is a mismatch in favor of the Eagles. McCourty playing more in the box is a mismatch in favor of the Eagles. Richards being on the field at all is a mismatch in favor of the Eagles.

 

[IllegalContact]

Agaimn, the X factor is what the actual alternatives were. You seem to be of the opinion that one of the alternatives was playing Butler. I'm of the opinion that that remains to be seen. There are a number of possible reasons why that option could have proven to be illusionary.

he was dressed, so it was an alternative......case closed

 

[IllegalContact]

It essentially created mismatches in the secondary. Chung cover Agholor instead of Ertz in man is a mismatch in favor of the Eagles. McCourty playing more in the box is a mismatch in favor of the Eagles. Richards being on the field at all is a mismatch in favor of the Eagles.

I'd dare to say that Butler wasn't going in even if there was an injury to a CB.....by the 2nd half, BB was not going to put Butler in anyway because if he did and Butler made plays, then there would be a sh.tload more to answer for.

 

[Kontradiction]

he was dressed, so it was an alternative......case closed

Yep. There’s a difference between the appearance of an alternative and an alternative that one chose not to exercise. This was the latter.

 

[Calhoun44]

Has the theory been floated that the "incident" may have occurred after the inactives were announced?

 

[Tunescribe]

If that’s the case, then I can kind of see it. But benching him for going out or any of the other reasons that were floated is asinine. Especially when your goal is to win games and, ultimately, championships. If it was for less than that or if it truly was a football decision, then Belichick chose a bad time to go full ******.

Above all else in his life, BB doesn't go "full ******" in a championship game. You can cross that option off the list.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I am still laughing at those who think Butler is in fact Superman, Deion Sanders and Larry Wildcat Wilson all rolled into one, and BB forgot that guy was standing next to him on the sidelines, ready for action. I don't feel Butler would have made much difference. It's stunning to me the connection people have with Butler from SB 49. I get it, but you can't have that in your head and just assume it means the same thing in February of 2018.

Based on the scheme approach, Butler's flu, etc, Butler was really on going to be a back up. I think part is agreed on. And, Butler wouldn't have matched up well with Ertz either. The only argument would be Butler on Agoholor, but we've been down that road 100 times already as it is.

McCourty was on Torrey Smith at the line and used in run support. I don't have access to game tape, but someone was on Smith. It had to be McCourty, where he removed him from the game and tried to help in run support, which means he was down in the box.

My disagreement with BB has stated numerous times..

Gilmore on Agoholor (Agoholor is hands down the quickest/best WR for throws that will be released the fastest, so a physical jam receiver would hvae worked nicely in man)

Rowe on Jeffery with help from Harmon/bracketing the deep sttuff

The lack of this approach based on who was on who and the Chung concussion were the problems, not Butler being out there.

Honestly, they matched up very well. Ertz wasn't doing anything until Chung got hurt.

When you stop and think of ity, the D had a lot of key injuries and players who were not there from the 2016 team.

Both the 2014 and 2016 Ds had great health and versatility. The 2017 D did all they could and Foles simply played lights out.

We really missed Hightower, McClellin and Valentine in particular. It's why I kept saying Valentine was more important than Mitchell, to come off IR.

And, this doesn't count Alan Branch also checking out like Butler.

All in all, there is plenty to be excited about for a bounce back net year, with better health and guys like Butler, Wise, with great experience, Valentine assuming to be back, maybe Rivers adds some weight to help as a strategic subrusher, Langi comes forward, and maybe McClellin wants to still give it one more go, and they can resign Marquis Flowers, which I believe they will and can.

For years BB was trying to accomplish the Rover role element and to be able to go man with BIG CBs. He has it, and it's very overrated to claim that Gilmore and/or Rowe did not play well.

 

[sb1]

I am still laughing at those who think Butler is in fact Superman, Deion Sanders and Larry Wildcat Wilson all rolled into one, and BB forgot that guy was standing next to him on the sidelines, ready for action. I don't feel Butler would have made much difference. It's stunning to me the connection people have with Butler from SB 49. I get it, but you can't have that in your head and just assume it means the same thing in February of 2018.

Unfortunately I have to agree, and I love the guy for one of the biggest defensive plays we will ever see in our lifetime.

Butler is a good CB. But let's just say I doubt Belichick benches Richard Sherman or Darrelle Revis in his prime. Butler is not on the level of a great corner and never was.

 

[Huckleberry1]

If that’s the case, then I can kind of see it. But benching him for going out or any of the other reasons that were floated is asinine. Especially when your goal is to win games and, ultimately, championships. If it was for less than that or if it truly was a football decision, then Belichick chose a bad time to go full ******.

I can think of a few other reasons but I agree that it would have to be a serious issue, and while breaking a curfew could warrant a series or quarter on the bench, imo it would not warrant a game benching.

While I personally don’t see weed as a serious infraction I think it’s a perilous issue for the franchise. If coaches or security caught him either smoking or in possession the night before the game the team would be in a real quandary. And regardless of my personal bias on the issue they may not have had any choice, as I can only imagine the national outcry by the fans of the 31 and the resulting response of the league office if they gave him a pass and didn’t disclose it. And I can honestly see the national media and outcry of PATRIOTS USE PLAYER WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN SUSPENDED TO WIN THE SUPER BOWL. I can see the “ Cheater’s“ outcry, and the league conducting an investigation leading to a suspension for Belichick as well as the loss of more high draft picks. That may seem extreme but given their behavior in the past it’s by no means a reach. Belichick’s first responsibility is to protect the franchise, and the second would be to win the game. Right now, however, I am going to take Butler at his word that this was not the issue, i’m simply giving an example of a scenario they could have found themselves in.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Unfortunately I have to agree, and I love the guy for one of the biggest defensive plays we will ever see in our lifetime.

Butler is a good CB. But let's just say I doubt Belichick benches Richard Sherman or Darrelle Revis in his prime. Butler is not on the level of a great corner and never was.

I agree, he’s been good but not elite.