Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[luuked]

He's right. It's on film. Coaches/players freely admit it.

No he is not. I was there during that time. I dont need film.

 

[chumpchange]

-Belichick had to convinced by his QB coach to draft Brady and keep Brady on the roster.
-In the 2001 off season virtually everyone thought Brady was the better QB and Belichick elected to start Bledsoe for the season because "he had experience".

Let's not make Belichick out be some infallible deity here.

"Tom Brady has played his entire NFL career under Bill Belichick. Without Brady, Belichick is 51-65. But with Brady, the Patriots are 136-39 in the regular season.
Tom Brady has been a consistent high-level performer throughout the course of his career, whereas Bill Belichick has only been a high-level performer with Brady leading his team."

 

[chumpchange]

No he is not. I was there during that time. I dont need film.

It's on NFL Films. It's not a secret.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I agree, hopefully that will stop now and we can get back on point.

I wish you were right but unfortunately I don’t see this stopping any time soon. There’s a hard core group of poster’s on this site who can’t stand Belichick, and take opportunities like this to whine about him endlessly. I think the large majority of poster’s here, and Patriot fans as a whole, are smart enough to realize that the success of the Patriots is largely due to the combination of Belichick and Brady, but the ignorant few who have an axe to grind are pretty much relentless in their whining.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I know most probably someone already replied to you but for the love of god there was no CB depth behind Butler. If Gilmore hit his head and had to go out what then?

Butler was pure injury insurance and if Jonathan Jones was healthy then Malcolm would have been inactive.

Agreed. I kept trying to explain that to some family who didn't get all of this. Bademosi would have had to have gone down, or Ricahrds. Mind you, I did not agree with Richards trying to hang with Agohlor, when Chung couldn't and I knew he woudn't. I kept warning that Agoholor was a 1st or 2nd read for Foles and was the most dangerous receiver not named Ertz.

I would have entrusted Bademosi on Agoholor before Richards. Richards has no hips. His lateral movemenrt is not not there. The reason why Chung is so good on move TEs, is because he knwos the routes they run, and he runs them. It's not that Chung is super athletic, but Richards is a worse choice.

 

[Huckleberry1]

"Tom Brady has played his entire NFL career under Bill Belichick. Without Brady, Belichick is 51-65. But with Brady, the Patriots are 136-39 in the regular season.
Tom Brady has been a consistent high-level performer throughout the course of his career, whereas Bill Belichick has only been a high-level performer with Brady leading his team."

Red Auerbach never coached a team to a championship without Bill Russell = Red Auerbach was a JAG coach.

 

[upstater1]

This supports my argument even more. He took a guy who didn't even start at USC, went 11-5 and the guy then had a 27-2 to/int season. So Belichick found a needle in a haystack more than once.

So let's agree on 2 things:
- Brady is the best QB ever, everything you want in a QB besides athleticism. Every single Super Bowl gave them a lead in the last few minutes to win it
- At the same time Belichick created the entire organization, system, and has found backup college QBs like Cassel or guys like Brissett/Jimmy and won over three quarter of his games without Brady

This is a super lame comparison. Did you like watching the Patriots get shut out by the Bills with Brisset at the helm?

Do you know how many NFL players looked like superstars for a few games or even a season. The list is long.

You can have Matt Schaub or Matt Moore or Charlie Whitehurst or Marc Bulger, but I'll take Tom Brady.

People act like Cassel is some rarity in the NFL. He's not. It's very common for a backup to have a stellar year. But then teams figure them out and the QB goes back into oblivion. Heck, Belichick is known for giving up huge passing yards to unknown QBs without a book on them. You study a QBs tendencies, and then you can neutralize them. And that's the big story in the NFL.

Besides, go look at the teams New England played in 2007 during the 16-0 year.

They played Indianapolis (13-3 record), Dallas (13-3 record, blown out by Patriots at Dallas), Pittsburgh (playoff team), San Diego (playoff team, "Lights Out"), Giants (playoff & Super Bowl team), Washington (playoff team), Baltimore, Cleveland (10-6 record!), Philly (8-8). They also tacked 2 losses on the Bills who would have had a winning season.

When you play 9 out of 10 out of division teams who are formidable, that's a murderer's row. And the 10th team they played was the 7-9 Cinci Bengals.

Compare it to what Cassel faced out of the division: Indianapolis (playoff team), Pittsburgh (playoff team), Arizona (9-7, playoffs), KC (2-14), San Fran (7-9), San Diego (8-8), St. Louis (2-14), Seattle (4-12), Oakland (5-11).

There was a night and day difference in the schedules. The NFC West was weak. The Patriots had 4 easy games in the Cassel year.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Fortunately, everything went smoothly after the team had seen dejected Butler crying during the national anthem.

Whose fault is that? Why is he crying? I love how 28 year old men's actions are somehow the fault of a coach, when the source of the issues are the 28 year old's.

What are we, in kindergarten here? This is guy who was looking for about 8 mil per from our franchise.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Red Auerbach never coached a team to a championship without Bill Russell = Red Auerbach was a JAG coach.

lol

Every great coach ends up having a key star player. These fans who take the Felger/Mazz/Borges/CHB cheese, following their lead, taking the Brady side over BB, are downright creepy.

They've grown up in a Boston/NE bubble as Millennials and don't even understand half of the dynamics of being an adult in the real world, economics, and how important it is to a team to keep everyone on the same page. Once cancer, can ruin it all.

BB has provided the best environment in the history of football in terms of commitment to winning.

No troll, jealous, bald geek behing a mic or hater, can take that away.

 

[pwes]

The Selective Skepticism on this site is ridiculous. You all proclaim In Bill We Trust and take everything he says as gospel and fact. When the man comes right out and says what happened and why now all of a sudden no one wants to believe it because Bill couldn't be that moronic. Or maybe he was and again just ****ed up the game plan.

If Brady doesn't get sacked and marches down the field to score a TD putting the game out of range is anyone talking about this? Belichick would be saying the same thing but reactions would be different. I'm choosing to believe what Bill is saying and yes I'm assigning blame on that game plan and very little adjustment. Until something concrete comes out, Bill took a risk and came up short. It almost worked until it didn't.

 

[chumpchange]

Whose fault is that? Why is he crying? I love how 28 year old men's actions are somehow the fault of a coach, when the source of the issues are the 28 year old's.

What are we, in kindergarten here? This is guy who was looking for about 8 mil per from our franchise.

No, we're not in kindergarten; that's why we don't blow something as important as a Super Bowl over Butler being put in time out for tardiness. Bill didn't do his job. He didn't put his best players on the field. He hurt his own team.

 

[ashley]

Ivan, you know what's funny, when I came home from work yesterday, my dad was saying how he couldn't believe how much Belichick is disliked. He said that he will be fully appreciated when we don't have him as a head coach anymore. I wasn't around when we were going through losing years, but I know from my parents how much I should be appreciating these times.

I wish you were right but unfortunately I don’t see this stopping any time soon. There’s a hard core group of poster’s on this site who can’t stand Belichick, and take opportunities like this to whine about him endlessly. I think the large majority of poster’s here, and Patriot fans as a whole, are smart enough to realize that the success of the Patriots is largely due to the combination of Belichick and Brady, but the ignorant few who have an axe to grind are pretty much relentless in their whining.

 

[chumpchange]

Any fan who thinksBelichick is a JAG coach is a f.cking moron.

I don't think he's a JAG coach, I just think Tom is more responsible for the success of this team than Bill is. Kraft apparently agrees.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

It seems like to me Butler interception in SB49 just got to his head. He was not at all happy with the contract the Pats were offering him last season and his heart was not with the team this year. It showed on the field and off of it.

Butler is a good player when he’s focused. But remember, this is a player who went to West Alabama because no other school wanted him. There’s a reason for that and it has nothing to do with talent.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

This is a super lame comparison. Did you like watching the Patriots get shut out by the Bills with Brisset at the helm?

Do you know how many NFL players looked like superstars for a few games or even a season. The list is long.

You can have Matt Schaub or Matt Moore or Charlie Whitehurst or Marc Bulger, but I'll take Tom Brady.

People act like Cassel is some rarity in the NFL. He's not. It's very common for a backup to have a stellar year. But then teams figure them out and the QB goes back into oblivion. Heck, Belichick is known for giving up huge passing yards to unknown QBs without a book on them. You study a QBs tendencies, and then you can neutralize them. And that's the big story in the NFL.

Besides, go look at the teams New England played in 2007 during the 16-0 year.

They played Indianapolis (13-3 record), Dallas (13-3 record, blown out by Patriots at Dallas), Pittsburgh (playoff team), San Diego (playoff team, "Lights Out"), Giants (playoff & Super Bowl team), Washington (playoff team), Baltimore, Cleveland (10-6 record!), Philly (8-8). They also tacked 2 losses on the Bills who would have had a winning season.

When you play 9 out of 10 out of division teams who are formidable, that's a murderer's row. And the 10th team they played was the 7-9 Cinci Bengals.

Compare it to what Cassel faced out of the division: Indianapolis (playoff team), Pittsburgh (playoff team), Arizona (9-7, playoffs), KC (2-14), San Fran (7-9), San Diego (8-8), St. Louis (2-14), Seattle (4-12), Oakland (5-11).

There was a night and day difference in the schedules. The NFC West was weak. The Patriots had 4 easy games in the Cassel year.

Umm, Cassell hadn't played competitive football in a DECADE. Since 1999! He was a back up at USC and then played some scrimmages and preseason games for a while behind Brady.

So, no, you're wrong.

You're also wrong in a sense that NE had TWO back to back West Coast road trips that year, which as we know, are brutal.

Looking at strength of schedule is a weak red herring argument. It was a HUGE challenge to get Cassel up to speed and game ready, and it's an incredible testament to him and the coaching staff.

MOST back up QBs fail miserably. The environment and coaching continuity is the key.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I don't think he's a JAG coach, I just think Tom is more responsible for the success of this team than Bill is. Kraft apparently agrees.

Kraft has very little idea of what he is talking about when it comes to football matters, which is why he stays out of the way.

As Kraft has said, NUMEROUS TIMES, acquiring BB is the best move he's ever made.

Brady would be nowhere near as great if he was drafted by someone else. I am not even sure he would have been given a chance.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It seems like to me Butler interception in SB49 just got to his head. He was not at all happy with the contract the Pats were offering him last season and his heart was not with the team this year. It showed on the field and off of it.

Butler is a good player when he’s focused. But remember, this is a player who went to West Alabama because no other school wanted him. There’s a reason for that and it has nothing to do with talent.

My gut tells me he contracted RandyMoss-itis. Once the Pats played hardball on his contract he felt unloved, unwanted, just couldn't deal anymore and the went down a bad path.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Ivan, you know what's funny, when I came home from work yesterday, my dad was saying how he couldn't believe how much Belichick is disliked. He said that he will be fully appreciated when we don't have him as a head coach anymore. I wasn't around when we were going through losing years, but I know from my parents how much I should be appreciating these times.

I get that he’s not the most likable guy, it’s the disrespect that I don’t understand.

 

[Huckleberry1]

My gut tells me he contracted RandyMoss-itis. Once the Pats played hardball on his contract he felt unloved, unwanted, just couldn't deal anymore and the went down a bad path.

That’s how I see it as well.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

It seems like to me Butler interception in SB49 just got to his head. He was not at all happy with the contract the Pats were offering him last season and his heart was not with the team this year. It showed on the field and off of it.

Butler is a good player when he’s focused. But remember, this is a player who went to West Alabama because no other school wanted him. There’s a reason for that and it has nothing to do with talent.

Exactly. It's a shame. But, I bet Sean Payton's eyes bugged out of his head after meeting with Butler, with Butler demanding 8 mil per.

There was no clearly no movement or budging from Butler, as BB was all but trying to give him away.

It's very 2007 with Samuel. CB gets big head, which is easy for that position to do, and the player proceeds to be underperforming and selfish, only caring about their contract.

I think Butler played some good games for us this year but he also played some bad ones, leaving the script, while fingerpointing after he freelanced and blew coverages.

This has been widely documented. People wanted to scapegoat Gilmore, and certainly being new in zone coverage, he probably made some early season errors, but he also wasn't trying to deflect blame either.

It's just sad no one Butler respected, pulled him aside and made him realize 8 mil per with NE is as good as it's going to get.