Mac or Zach?

[DropKickFlutie]

Can we trade Josh to the Jets? Please

I really think he's grown a lot the last 15 years. He's improved as a coordinator since 2005, that's for sure. It's too bad the Eagles passed on him, a real shame. Someone should give him another chance. Would be very supportive of Josh for the NYJ in the future. Could be a win win situation.

On the other hand, Saleh seems like a good dude and I wouldn't wish for him out of his current job.

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[Actual Pats Fan]

Im not seeing what other Patriots fans are seeing.

Mac looks slow, tentative and there isnt that much velocity on the ball. Yesterday, Mac threw a couple of wounded ducks that will be INTs if those risky throws continue.

To get a true and accurate picture, I want to see an opposing defense stop or slow down the NE run game to force Mac to win the game. Or, the opposing offense, jumping out to a lead by a couple of scores lead thereby forcing NE into throwing to get back in the game.

I'm not contradicting your assessment, but every player has his own style and characteristics.

I just can't help recalling the many critiques of Brady's tendencies since he became the starter. This went on for at least five years, even after three Super Bowl wins. Like Russell, Tom isn't flashy or sexy in the conventional sense, like Jordan or Manning.

Tom and Bill were students of the game throughout their careers. If Mac has this attitude, I think he has a bright future.

 

[venecol]

New England QB Mac Jones. Good for a debut, for sure, with only one turnover-worthy play in 75 snaps. The yards-per-attempt, 7.9, is big time.

Correction: Mac's Avg. was 7.2 not 7.9, good enough for #16 out of all QBs.

 

[JMC00]

I thought the Pats OL was supposed to be tough and their DL/LB were also better tahn Miami's.......How come Mac got hit 9 times ?? I believe Tua was hit much less.....

A comment like this shows someone that just reads the box score. miami blitzed on almost 50% and they had the 2nd & 3rd string RT in for much of the game. miami was very lucky mcdaniels called a conservative game and they have a good #1 CB with how much Mac killed them when they did blitz

 

[whybob]

Way to early to say who is better but for sake of argument Ill take Mac today. Seen many QB's who had all the natural athletic gifts, but couldn't process and slow the game down. Mac shows signs of having that ability.

 

[Rob0729]

Correction: Mac's Avg. was 7.2 not 7.9, good enough for #16 out of all QBs.

I just posted what King wrote. I was only posting about the interceptible balls thrown. Didn't fact check the yards per attempt.

But you are counting Justin Jefferson who had one pass for 11 yards and Jordan Love who played during garbage time and got 68 yards total. So he was 14th.

And don't forget they had the training wheels on Jones in most of the first half and he didn't really get to air out the ball more until the second half.

 

[Kontradiction]

Becton dislocated his knee cap.

 

[BigPeteG]

Mac proves he is fairly quick and athletic out there. That was my take away. I wondered how he would do with a blitz heading right for him - like Prescott had to deal with - and he dealt with that very well. The weak arm stuff is overblown as well.

49ers f'd up when they didn't pick Jones. We really got lucky.. So glad the media pressured the 49ers into taking an inaccurate athlete type over a surgeon Brady type..

Zach is super talented and would have done great with us as well - but we never had a chance at the #2 pick. So oh well. Sucks for Zach though. He needs to try to get traded ASAP.

 

[NCPATSFAN1971]

I watched parts of the first half of the Jets-Carolina game and Zack had a pretty bad first half. It's my understanding that he came back in the second half and did pretty well.

Notwithstanding Zack's second half performance and Mac's overall solid performance, both teams lost.

However, the NFL is a results based business and Week 1 Mac definitely out performed Zack.

I had hoped that the Pats would draft Mac because he was the closest match to Tom Brady's style of play. I got my wish and am happy that the Pats were able to pick him at 15. If we had the the #2 pick I still would have picked Mac.

 

[venecol]

I just posted what King wrote. I was only posting about the interceptible balls thrown. Didn't fact check the yards per attempt.

But you are counting Justin Jefferson who had one pass for 11 yards and Jordan Love who played during garbage time and got 68 yards total. So he was 14th.

And don't forget they had the training wheels on Jones in most of the first half and he didn't really get to air out the ball more until the second half.

Got you.

I'm just listing it from QB stats. Those guys (Jefferson & Love) aren't listed at all. Mac is at #16.

 

[Rob0729]

Got you.

I'm just listing it from QB stats. Those guys (Jefferson & Love) aren't listed at all. Mac is at #16.

View attachment 35638

The list I saw had those two passers that I mentioned. I did see on other sites they are not listed on it and still has Jones at 16.

 

[patfanken]

What I was yesterday from Jones was a QB that can make all the necessary throws. True, he can't throw a 40 yard rope while scrambling left, but how often is that needed? 4-5 times per season? He threw some deep outs with authority, completed an incredible wheel route to White, and made a number of completions under extreme pressure. He passed the test in terms of arm talent.

Another thing I noticed is he not only moves well in the pocket, but is much better outside the pocket that I realized. That rollout to the right where he hit Bourne downfield (which came back due to penalty) showed terrific athleticism. He looks better than Brady ever was in that department.

Then you throw in the intangibles from yesterday's game, and his 75% accuracy which were not all dink & dunk by any stretch, against one of the better defenses in the league, and we have the makings of a star.

I've been trying to point this out for a while. While Mac isn't a 4.4 uber athlete, but he is a good one. To give you some perspective. His 4.8 forty time is the same as Rodney Harrison's. And his 7.04 three cone time is better than Wes Welker's So if we are talking about Mac as a statue QB like Manning and Brady, we are making a mistake.

And as for whose QB is better, it will be determined as it should be by which TEAM is better, because while physical talent is great, you have to have the team around you to reach your potential. Jones is in a perfect situation for him. Wilson has to build from the ground up. If your LT is out this week, it won't be pretty for him and he will be running for his life. Mac's floor is a lot higher because of who he is and the team he plays on. Wilson's ceiling is higher because of his rare physical talent.

The Jets have trotted out a myriad of top 10 QB picks over the years. In the end they were all beaten down by the stench that is the NY Jets. Ironically it was the worst of them (Sanchez( that had the most success because for 2 brief years, he had the best surrounding cast. Not trying to be mean, but I no longer hate the Jets for their perfidy back when Parcells stabbed us in the back. I now just pity and admire the loyalty of poor Jets fans who have had to follow that team for the past 25 years OUCH!

 

[scott99]

Im not seeing what other Patriots fans are seeing.

Mac looks slow, tentative and there isnt that much velocity on the ball. Yesterday, Mac threw a couple of wounded ducks that will be INTs if those risky throws continue.

To get a true and accurate picture, I want to see an opposing defense stop or slow down the NE run game to force Mac to win the game. Or, the opposing offense, jumping out to a lead by a couple of scores lead thereby forcing NE into throwing to get back in the game.

Ahh Triumph, always the life of the party.

 

[reflexblue]

Mac, because the jete are a terrible organization. The press will destroy him when he screws up, and the fans will call for his head. Between the press, the fans, and a lousy organization there is just to much pressure put on young players in NY they wilt under the pressure. The press and the fans have little patience, and if you can't produce your gone.

 

[dannydyn]

I'll just leave it here:

Mac Jones has the highest completion percentage (74.4%) of any rookie QB making their 1st NFL start in NFL history - (min > 25 pass attempts)

So there is that

— Boston Sports Info (@bostonsportsinf) September 12, 2021

 

[PScottman]

Zach is super talented and would have done great with us as well - but we never had a chance at the #2 pick. So oh well. Sucks for Zach though. He needs to try to get traded ASAP.

If you keep going with that logic however - does Wilson beat out Newton for the starting job in the preseason or is another bridge year until he's ready? Posts like these deserve their own thread - especially in the off-season to drive discussion.

Ah, the "What If..."


(now on Disney+ new episodes Wednesdays)

 

[zydecochris]

This thread and upcoming game would have been more fun if both the Jets n Pats were 1-0 vs 0-1, but such is life.

Disclaimer: Sorry if I'm not allowed to start a thread as a Jet fan. I'm not trying to cause issues for Ian or the mods. I think (hope) they know this. Just curious.

Go on the record. Zach or Mac? Who will be better?

I think we can all agree Mac is in the better situation (coach, supporting cast...).

But if you had the #2 overall pick now, whom would you pick? Zach or Mac?

Btw, cheers to a season w/fans again. And congrats on Mac! Kid looks good. Looking forward to seasons of battles. And especially this upcoming week.

I would argue that when predicting which quarterback will be "better", it isn't possible to separate the quarterback from the situation. Moreover, the perfect quarterback for the Patriot system (certainly under Tom Brady) is a cerebral QB who perfectly follows the game plan, is smart enough to adjust to a different game plan every week, avoids turnovers at all costs, is able to adjust to changing defenses pre-snap at the line, never free-lances, and throws an accurate ball. If one was to design a quarterback in the lab for the Patriot system it would be Mac Jones. Thus I think Mac is more of a "sure deal" to have a successful career arc because he fits the Patriot system so perfectly.

I haven't seen enough of Zach to know what the perfect system is for him, I guess I would look at some team where system encourages the quarterback to creatively "make something out of nothing", scrambling around and throwing down the field. The Kansas City system with Patrick Mahomes comes to mind. Robert Saleh looks like a decent hire so far, but I'm glad that the Jets didn't hire someone like Kansas City Offensive Coordinator Eric Bieniemy, I could see how Zach could be dangerous in that system.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

A comment like this shows someone that just reads the box score. miami blitzed on almost 50% and they had the 2nd & 3rd string RT in for much of the game. miami was very lucky mcdaniels called a conservative game and they have a good #1 CB with how much Mac killed them when they did blitz

Mac Jones was hit 9 times so would not call this a 'conservative' game plan. the oc was leaving the rookie QB out to dry on his very first game. Mac is tough as nails but it's criminal to keep calling spread shotgun, while missing your starting RT, not having TEs in to help block, just so you can keep slinging it and leave a defender open to lay out on Mac. Mac won't last the season taking 9 hits a game. This was not 'conservative' meaning they should open it up and leave Mac exposed even more. If anything open up the 12 personnel playbook a LOT more.

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[PScottman]

I could see how Zach could be dangerous in that system.

If he could live to see the end state.

All part of a whole - meaning would such a hire like Bieniemy do similar to Flores in Miami - get a ton of picks, sign mid-level vets familiar with him or known to him incl. a QB like Fitzpatrick in the short term and take the first year lumps to clear cap and then rebuild in "his own image"? As that is what it would take as I don't see much of that system in place (personnel wise) now at the Meadowlands.

Darnold is an interesting case study in the future of a former high QB pick of the Jets- he was under similar rush pressure as he was in NY yesterday according to the stats, but didn't &^%$ himself in his play.

Nature or nurture. It isn't just for science class anymore folks...now it's all about football.

 

[farn]

I’m very frustrated at the loss. Yes, first games get undue attention and they usually don’t sink any team.

But if NE is a wildcard candidate, Miami is the type of team you can benefit from beating. I think NE had that one and it stings.

Having said that : it’s a LOT more interesting to ***** about mental errors and fumbles than worrying your QB is a dud. Mac might not ascend to greatness in the same way as some all timers do, but what I saw last night was very encouraging. If Mac is the answer at QB for the next decade + , the loss last night will be less of a downer. Obv.