LSU's Woods and Syracuse's Arthur Jones better than Odrick?

[mcmurtry86]

Linval Joseph is also a better option than Odrick.

Joseph is a terrible fit at 5-technique

 

[captain stone]

Joseph is a terrible fit at 5-technique

I agree. Joseph seems strictly a 4-3 DT, or maybe a NT.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Interest. Why don't you feel that Joseph can play the 5-tech? Several 34 teams have had him in for a visit. He's down to 319 now, and ran a 4.9 at his pro day, while also drastically reducing his 3-cone time. He's pretty agile for a big guy, with terrific strength, long arms, and huge hands. How is that any different from, say, Odrick or Woods? Sure, he was a penetrating lineman in college, but how many players are true two-gappers? Not many.

I really am curious, though. If you could shed some light on why you feel he's strictly a 43 DT, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Zardnok]

As an LSU fan, I can tell you that Woods is a major under-achiever that I would not want on my team. He is a space eater type, not a potential 5-tech DE, despite his measurables. He has never truly applied himself to learning proper technique and has lousy diagnostic skills. He does not put forth effort in the weight room, the film room, or the class room always doing the minimum to get by. He might make someone a wonderful back-up 1-tech DT in a 4-3 system, but that is likely all he will ever be, a back-up. He survived at LSU through superior athletic abilities and never did anything to improve himself. He was benched last year for lack of effort and only got back on the field because the Freshman DT that took his job got hurt. I am shocked that his draft stock is rising so much, because he is really not that good of a player.

As for Arthur Jones being better than Odrick, again I just don't see it. Odrick is IMO the best potential 5-tech coming out while Jones is another inconsistent player that did not dedicate himself to learning proper technique, staying in shape, or building strength in the weight room.

If you are looking for value 5-tech players, check out Corey Wooten in the 2nd, Tyson Aluala in the 3rd, Alex Carrington in the 4th, Brandon Deaderick in the 5th, Jeffrey Fitzgerald in the 6th, and Clifton Geathers in the 7th.

 

[zgotts]

As for Arthur Jones being better than Odrick, again I just don't see it. Odrick is IMO the best potential 5-tech coming out while Jones is another inconsistent player that did not dedicate himself to learning proper technique, staying in shape, or building strength in the weight room.

I'm just curious what your justification for this is about Jones? The guy is pretty damn athletic.

 

[Metaphors]

As an LSU fan, I can tell you that Woods is a major under-achiever that I would not want on my team. He is a space eater type, not a potential 5-tech DE, despite his measurables. He has never truly applied himself to learning proper technique and has lousy diagnostic skills. He does not put forth effort in the weight room, the film room, or the class room always doing the minimum to get by. He might make someone a wonderful back-up 1-tech DT in a 4-3 system, but that is likely all he will ever be, a back-up. He survived at LSU through superior athletic abilities and never did anything to improve himself. He was benched last year for lack of effort and only got back on the field because the Freshman DT that took his job got hurt. I am shocked that his draft stock is rising so much, because he is really not that good of a player.

As for Arthur Jones being better than Odrick, again I just don't see it. Odrick is IMO the best potential 5-tech coming out while Jones is another inconsistent player that did not dedicate himself to learning proper technique, staying in shape, or building strength in the weight room.

If you are looking for value 5-tech players, check out Corey Wooten in the 2nd, Tyson Aluala in the 3rd, Alex Carrington in the 4th, Brandon Deaderick in the 5th, Jeffrey Fitzgerald in the 6th, and Clifton Geathers in the 7th.

Welcome to the board. You seem to be on top of things so please keep up the posts. I really wanted to like Woods, but I saw exactly what you described in the games I saw. To his credit, he seems to be in shape but I can't get over the mediocre production in games.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

If you are looking for value 5-tech players, check out Corey Wooten in the 2nd, Tyson Aluala in the 3rd, Alex Carrington in the 4th, Brandon Deaderick in the 5th, Jeffrey Fitzgerald in the 6th, and Clifton Geathers in the 7th.

Given BB's history of drafting DT/DE types. It is hard to imagine him taking any guy, regardles of height that is less than 300 pounds so I am rulling out Wooten and Carrington.

I think Geathers and Deaderick bring good solid run stopping abilities. Deaderick is much better as a two gap player however.

I think Aluala is rising on a lot of draft boards and be gone early second.

 

[Marqui]

Given BB's history of drafting DT/DE types. It is hard to imagine him taking any guy, regardles of height that is less than 300 pounds so I am rulling out Wooten and Carrington.

Jarvis Green?

 

[Zardnok]

Given BB's history of drafting DT/DE types. It is hard to imagine him taking any guy, regardles of height that is less than 300 pounds so I am rulling out Wooten and Carrington.

I think Geathers and Deaderick bring good solid run stopping abilities. Deaderick is much better as a two gap player however.

I think Aluala is rising on a lot of draft boards and be gone early second.

I would agree with you on a number of these points. I included Wooten and Carrington because neither has had a top-end strength program and both have a frame that can add muscle without losing quickness.

Aluala is rising IMO because of his projections to 5-tech and the fact that he does not have the work ethic issues some of the other prospects seem to have. When I did my initial draft board rankings a month ago, I had Aluala as a 4th round prospect, but his name is definitely being bounced around a lot recently and he is rising. If he makes it to the third round, he would definitely be a value pick.

Welcome to the board. You seem to be on top of things so please keep up the posts. I really wanted to like Woods, but I saw exactly what you described in the games I saw. To his credit, he seems to be in shape but I can't get over the mediocre production in games.

Of course he is in shape now. He realized that his only chance was to make a good showing now, because his C-average broadcasting degree wasn't gonna do him much good, even if he did actually finish the classes, because nobody would want to hire a could-of-been DT to do the sports.

I'm just curious what your justification for this is about Jones? The guy is pretty damn athletic.

He is definitely athletic, but when he was doubled last year, he seemed to just hold up and not push through. Part of that was his pec injury, but he was too inconsistent IMO to be a 5-tech DE. I could see him as a NT prospect before I would see him a DE.

Is not the most focused guy out of the field and he has a host of inconsistent efforts. Needs to work harder with the weights to improve his strength and upgrade his overall conditioning. Arthur has the size, foot speed and huge length to be a very effective inside performer, but he has never been in top flight shape and he has to take the game more seriously to reach his full potential.

 

[captain stone]

Interest. Why don't you feel that Joseph can play the 5-tech? Several 34 teams have had him in for a visit. He's down to 319 now, and ran a 4.9 at his pro day, while also drastically reducing his 3-cone time. He's pretty agile for a big guy, with terrific strength, long arms, and huge hands. How is that any different from, say, Odrick or Woods? Sure, he was a penetrating lineman in college, but how many players are true two-gappers? Not many.

I really am curious, though. If you could shed some light on why you feel he's strictly a 43 DT, I'd appreciate it.

Joseph is a very intriguing player, but 320 is too heavy for me, even for a 5-Technique. I prefer my 3-4 DEs to be at least a dozen pounds lighter in order to maximize their lateral agility while maintaining the necessary bulk.

With his impressive strength, he should stay at 330 and make a lot of money as an athletic NT, or a DT in an even front. I just can't see using one of our 2nd-rounders on him, and he'll be long gone by our 4th-rounder.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Joseph is not a NT, he doesn't get low enough for good leverage on the inside. Against Arkansas he was easily moved when he was at NT. He should have stayed in school for another year in my mind, so he's a project for whomever takes him.

 

[captain stone]

Joseph is not a NT, he doesn't get low enough for good leverage on the inside. Against Arkansas he was easily moved when he was at NT. He should have stayed in school for another year in my mind, so he's a project for whomever takes him.

You're not the only one who doesn't think that he's a NT:

Draft Countdown - Ask Scott (4/15/10)

"[Comment From jasonjason: ]
Torrell Troup or Linval Joseph, Who's better suited for NT, and will they both go in the 2nd?

3:09 East Carolina's Linval Joseph will be a DE in a 3-4 scheme, so Torrell Troup.
Joseph will be a 2nd Rounder while Troup will be a 3rd or 4th.

[Comment From Graham, EnglandGraham, England: ]
How many DE's can start next season in a 3-4?

3:20 Start? That's hard to predict because a lot depends on the situation they go into. Here is a list of some of the top five-technique prospects though:

Jared Odrick, Penn State
Tyson Alualu, California
Linval Joseph, East Carolina
Corey Wootton, Northwestern
Alex Carrington, Arkansas State
Brandon Deaderick, Alabama
Clifton Geathers, South Carolina"

Interesting that Scott lists Wootton as a 3-4 DE. I still don't see it. And that he doesn't list Arthur Jones, LaMarr Houston or CJ Wilson. He obviously likes Joseph, however:

"[Comment From GregGreg: ]
Potential first rounder no one's talking about?

3:32 Linval Joseph, Rodger Saffold, Kareem Jackson and Tyson Alualu."

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

You're not the only one who doesn't think that he's a NT:

Draft Countdown - Ask Scott (4/15/10)

"[Comment From jasonjason: ]
Torrell Troup or Linval Joseph, Who's better suited for NT, and will they both go in the 2nd?

3:09 East Carolina's Linval Joseph will be a DE in a 3-4 scheme, so Torrell Troup.
Joseph will be a 2nd Rounder while Troup will be a 3rd or 4th.

[Comment From Graham, EnglandGraham, England: ]
How many DE's can start next season in a 3-4?

3:20 Start? That's hard to predict because a lot depends on the situation they go into. Here is a list of some of the top five-technique prospects though:

Jared Odrick, Penn State
Tyson Alualu, California
Linval Joseph, East Carolina
Corey Wootton, Northwestern
Alex Carrington, Arkansas State
Brandon Deaderick, Alabama
Clifton Geathers, South Carolina"

Interesting that Scott lists Wootton as a 3-4 DE. I still don't see it. And that he doesn't list Arthur Jones, LaMarr Houston or CJ Wilson. He obviously likes Joseph, however:

"[Comment From GregGreg: ]
Potential first rounder no one's talking about?

3:32 Linval Joseph, Rodger Saffold, Kareem Jackson and Tyson Alualu."

Arthur Jones fell off the radar after two seasons with back-to-back injuries. LaMarr Houston still doesn't strike me as a NE-style 5-tech, he's not that great at the point of attack and is better shooting a gap to pressure the QB. Wootton was 270 for the Combine, which is the lowest weight these kids tend to have after all the work they put in to be scored on track drills, he looked about 290 in their bowl game against Auburn so I can see him bulking up enough. He's reportedly pretty good against the run and appeared to be so in the games I watched the past two years, I can see him as a 5-tech, and his Pro-Day change of direction numbers might even argue for him as an OLB if his 10 & 20-splits were better then his 40.