Patriots Rumor Looks like we're getting Taylor or Peppers...?

[Patriot Missile]

extend vince he deserves a contract more then peppers.

Why is that?

 

[eom]

I just don't understand how the Panthers, who have maybe 6 million in cap space, can possibly afford to absorb Pepper's one year tag of 16 million. Is there something I'm missing? If Pepper's holds out long enough and the Panthers don't clear cap space, wouldn't they have to take the tag off at the signing deadline? From what I have heard, the only way the Panthers can keep Peppers, is if they sign him to a long term deal.

.

no, the peppers $ is already figured in.
right now, the panthers and pats have about equal cap space, but I have no idea how many players the panthers have signed.

 

[patsfan-1982]

No linebackers drafted yet... we just took a big German dude. Looking increasingly likely that we'll get at least Taylor locked down soon?

lol what dose drafting a big german dude got to do with geting taylor or peppers ? any ways they are not going to get peppers because he may want to play OLB in 3-4 but he still wants to get payed like the top DE in the NFL thats not going to happen with the pats and i dont think we will get taylor

 

[supafly]

I just don't understand how the Panthers, who have maybe 6 million in cap space, can possibly afford to absorb Pepper's one year tag of 16 million. Is there something I'm missing? If Pepper's holds out long enough and the Panthers don't clear cap space, wouldn't they have to take the tag off at the signing deadline? From what I have heard, the only way the Panthers can keep Peppers, is if they sign him to a long term deal.

I think that most of us agree that the Pats need serious help at the OLB spot. At worst, I'd give Woods a full season to see what he can do, assuming he becomes the full time starter. However, because of his athletic ability, I'd rather see Crable emerge and start full time at OLB.

This explains why you are so adamant about the Panthers not being able to afford him, etc, in your posts.

You must have been under the impression that they had to fit his franchise tag money in on their 6 mill cap space. But like eom stated, it's already been figured in from day one. I can see now why you keep posting that they 'can't afford him, etc'

They have arguably more space than we do, and that was before they extended Delhomme, which freed up another 2.5-3 mill. They would be dumb to let him go, as they have no way now of improving their team via free agency or the draft. Their D already was average, I believe they came in around 18th last yr, so it could only get worse without Peppers. And I doubt he'd hold out, and pass up on a million a game, including the bye week. I really think he keeps the 17 guaranteed this yr, and then makes out on another 25-30 mill guaranteed next yr in an uncapped free agency. That would put his guaranteed money at somewhere between 40-45 mill for the next 2 yrs--which would make his 2 yr total for guaranteed money even more than Haynesworth's first 2 yrs of approx. 31 mill. Considering James Harrison got about 20 guaranteed over the next 6 yrs, that would more than double it over 2. This way, he'd also get his wish for leaving Carolina, get all of his guaranteed money, and wait until next yr for an even bigger deal in an uncapped yr.

I think he'll either wait until the summer or so to sign the tender, or he'll sign it sooner if they agree not to franchise him again next yr. But Carolina surely isn't strapped, as they'd have nothing to gain at this point, especially by getting rid of their best player.

 

[eom]

haha...that's making some pretty big assumptions.

if there was no risk in football all these guys would love being on these big money 1 year franchise deals.
why even sign a 5 yr deal when the money will be passed over by salary inflation in 3 yrs?

it's because they want the security.
what happens when pep blows out a leg this year?
what happens when there's a work stoppage in 2011?
now he's how old looking for a 5 yr deal under a new cba?

he could be leaving a lot of money on the table taking a one year deal.

 

[muslimman]

I just don't understand how the Panthers, who have maybe 6 million in cap space, can possibly afford to absorb Pepper's one year tag of 16 million. Is there something I'm missing? If Pepper's holds out long enough and the Panthers don't clear cap space, wouldn't they have to take the tag off at the signing deadline? From what I have heard, the only way the Panthers can keep Peppers, is if they sign him to a long term deal.

What I dont understand is how any of you guys could possibly still be thinking that Peppers is coming here.

He has not signed his contract with the Panthers which means he cannot be traded or even be in talks for a trade! Why hasnt he signed the contract so he can come here? Its because he knows that the few teams that he wanted to go to (i.e. Patriots) do not want him, so he hasnt signed so Carolina cant trade him to a team where he doesnt want to be (i.e. Lions).

The Patriots had their chance to make a move (yes under the table talks with agents do happen) couple weeks ago when all the buzz was saying Peppers is coming here... but they passed. Its very similar to how the Patriots had numerous chances to draft guys like Barwin. English, Malaluga... but they passed. So obviously we arent getting Barwin so what makes you guys think we are getting Peppers?

 

[supafly]

haha...that's making some pretty big assumptions.

if there was no risk in football all these guys would love being on these big money 1 year franchise deals.
why even sign a 5 yr deal when the money will be passed over by salary inflation in 3 yrs?

it's because they want the security.
what happens when pep blows out a leg this year?
what happens when there's a work stoppage in 2011?
now he's how old looking for a 5 yr deal under a new cba?

he could be leaving a lot of money on the table taking a one year deal.

I may have not explained myself well enough, because I'm not sure what assumptions are being made?

I'm simply stating that it'd be financially smart to keep the guaranteed money from this yr, then sign his big free agent deal next yr--also leaving the Panthers, which is what he's been getting at for a yr and a half now

By doing that, he'd be making 17 guaranteed this yr, and about 25-30 next yr guaranteed when he signs a big free agent deal. That would be over 40 mill guaranteed over 2 yrs--that's including the multi-yr deal

As far as injury worries go--all he'd hafta do is play this and next yr. The only assumption is that he plays this yr with Carolina (17 guaranteed) then signs a multi-yr deal with another team next yr (somewhere around 25-30 million more guaranteed)

In 2 yrs he could make 2x the guaranteed money that James Harrison just did in a 6 yr deal, or even Matt Cassel or Matt Stafford even. What's wrong with that scenario? Like I said, the only assumption is he plays this yr for Carolina, because next yr he's guaranteed a major contract. Is that really that much of an assumption? There's a good chance that he plays this yr under the tag

If you're talking about injury concerns, I think one or 2 yrs is a lot less risk than Stafford or Cassels 6 yr deals. Where is the money being left on the table?

 

[supafly]

haha...that's making some pretty big assumptions.

if there was no risk in football all these guys would love being on these big money 1 year franchise deals.
why even sign a 5 yr deal when the money will be passed over by salary inflation in 3 yrs?

it's because they want the security.
what happens when pep blows out a leg this year?
what happens when there's a work stoppage in 2011?
now he's how old looking for a 5 yr deal under a new cba?

he could be leaving a lot of money on the table taking a one year deal.

I think you maybe mis-understood, because when he signs a new big deal next yr, it will include a major portion guaranteed. So all I did was add the guaranteed loot from this yr, and the guaranteed loot from the multi yr deal next yr--which is a given. That's why it's prolly better to wait til next yr before signing a big deal--he gets the best of both worlds.

Makes tons of guaranteed this yr, then tons of guaranteed next yr under a new 4-5 yr contract. I think he'd care a great deal less about a work stoppage etc, because he'd have more guaranteed in 2 yrs than guys who just got that in 6 yrs (stafford, cassel, harrison)

Plus he gets to leave Carolina, which is what he wanted---best of everything

Even if he does blow out a leg, etc this yr--he still gets almost as much as james harrison just did in a 6 yr deal (approx.20 mill)
If he blows out a leg next yr, then even better. Cause he just made 45 mill guaranteed. No worries anywhere?

You said he wants security, I can't think of any possible way that he gets better security by only worrying about this yr and next. The guaranteed part is what they love anyway right?

 

[supafly]

Why is that?

Why does Wilfork deserve an extension, rather than signing Peppers?

Surely you're kidding. Besides being proven in our system, and an almost irreplaceable NT for our 3-4, he has worked his butt off and deserves a good payday. He's a vital part of our defense, Peppers doesn't even play the position he'd be playing here--he hasn't proved anything.

Besides that, if someone here were complaining about wanting to leave he'd be a whining malcontent. But since Peppers has talent, some are willing to put up with that I guess. I'd rather have a sure thing, than gamble on a risk.

 

[upstater1]

Albert Breer:

League sources say Jason Taylor is interested in joining New England—one went so far as to say Taylor "badly" wanted to be a Patriot. Miami remains an option for him, but Taylor likely would play a larger role in New England because the Dolphins probably wouldn't move Joey Porter back to the strong side to create a spot.

 

[slash83]

Why does Wilfork deserve an extension, rather than signing Peppers?

Surely you're kidding. Besides being proven in our system, and an almost irreplaceable NT for our 3-4, he has worked his butt off and deserves a good payday. He's a vital part of our defense, Peppers doesn't even play the position he'd be playing here--he hasn't proved anything.

Besides that, if someone here were complaining about wanting to leave he'd be a whining malcontent. But since Peppers has talent, some are willing to put up with that I guess. I'd rather have a sure thing, than gamble on a risk.

Couldnt of said it better, thanks for answering for me.

 

[supafly]

You bet, Slash.

Not that I'm against anything Patriot Missile says either--everyone's entitled to their own opinions. I certainly don't think mine are any better, that's for sure

Hell, maybe they both get signed, but I think Vince deserves it more

 

[slash83]

You bet, Slash.

Not that I'm against anything Patriot Missile says either--everyone's entitled to their own opinions. I certainly don't think mine are any better, that's for sure

Hell, maybe they both get signed, but I think Vince deserves it more

Be awesome of both were signed, if I had to chose one it would be Wilfork, take care of the great players already on the team first.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: No OLB taken, could this mean J. Taylor

I was curious about that too. Willie, Vrabes, and our current guys are pretty tall, and the guys yesterday really werent. I'm just gonna go back to thinking BB knows more than me

BB says sacks are an overrated statistic. He prefers a more accurate measure like points allowed. Or percentage of passes completed. QB pressures, and hurries and Pass knock downs, ie PDs, are as important as sacks. There is another non-statistic too. Blocking the throwing lanes. A tall pass-rusher can prevent a QB throwing it to a receiver in that direction. Or if he tries, it is difficult to put mustard on the throw and a lofted pass.

Lofted passes result in INTs and/or a pass defender arriving at the receiver as the ball does. That results in drops and or tackles with no YAC. So tall is a major and significant attribute to a pass rusher.

 

[supafly]

If we can finish 10th overall in total defense in a yr when we gave up tons and tons of TD's through the air with an excessively weak secondary, battle through a crazy amount of injuries in our LB core, and couldn't get off the field ever on 3rd downs--we'll be just fine this yr.

We made improvements to the D already, plus hopefully won't have to deal with the crazy amt of injuries either. The LB core has to be improved with the growth of Mayo and Guyton, arguably the removal of Vrabel/lower number of plays with Bruschi, and added depth/growth of Redd, Crable, McKenzie ??, TBC, Woods + the re-emergance of AD. There's just as much depth on the line, if not more, plus you have a healthier Ty Warren also. The re-signing of Wright, addition of Brace, Seymour and Wilfork in contract yrs, etc.

We all know the improvements made in the D Backfield, so I'm not sure why everyone continues to trip about players that aren't here, Peppers, Taylor, etc???

 

[SladeRider]

We all know the improvements made in the D Backfield, so I'm not sure why everyone continues to trip about players that aren't here, Peppers, Taylor, etc???

People probably feel the Pats are one players away from having the perfect team, that seems to be either Peppers or Taylor, an OLB and pass rusher and people might feel that if you add either Taylor or Peppers to this team, it will mean the team has everything it needs.

 

[supafly]

People probably feel the Pats are one players away from having the perfect team, that seems to be either Peppers or Taylor, an OLB and pass rusher and people might feel that if you add either Taylor or Peppers to this team, it will mean the team has everything it needs.

I understand what they are thinking, but you cannot have a pro bowl caliber player at every position. The unusual amt of injuries, secondary, and learning curves (Mayo,Guyton) still led us to 10th overall defense last yr, and kept us in playoff contention through the very last game of the season.

Imagine what we'll do now with added depth at every position, a healthier Ty Warren and AD, Wilfork and Seymour in contract yrs, and a vastly improved secondary? Where exactly is this "big" problem? Don't tell me abt lack of pass rush, etc--because all of the factors above contributed to the lack of pass rush.

We now have added depth, and improvement at all of the defensive positions:

DL--Healthy Warren, Wilfork/Sey in contract yrs, resigned Wright, so far still have Green, added Brace in draft, still have LeKevin for depth so far

LB--Added depth, Woods, Redd, Crable all healthy now. Added TBC, McKenzie, took away 'arguably' a decline in Vrabel/less playing time for an older Brucshi. Guyton and Mayo have improved from the rookie learning curve, and should have better yrs and increased responsibilities, and AD is now injury free also.
(How is this not a major improvement???)

DB--Added major signings with Springs, Bodden; added major rookie Butler through the draft. The healthier and more experienced Wheatley and Wilhite. Released 'arguably' player in decline Hobbs/combined with less playing time from an older Harrison. The emergence and added experience of Merriweather, added first pick Chung to the safety mix, resigned Sanders for rotation and to start the season.
(Again, how is this not major improvement???)

ALL of these will contribute to a better 3rd down percentage, and improved pass rush. It is not a problem or area of weakness anymore, it has been addressed--and addressed well.

 

[Adam Seward]

Added pass rush or go down burning!

On a serious note: Although we should be fine, a dominant pass rusher would only help our odds.

 

[supafly]

Added pass rush or go down burning!

Show me where you don't see improvements. Mayo and Guyton coming back for 2nd yrs more experienced. Another improved yr from Meriweather. All of the injuries have healed (Warren, AD, Wheatley, Wilhite, Crable, Redd) Additions of major players. (TBC, Springs, Bodden, Butler, Chung)

You're saying that you don't see improvement?

Everyone said we wanted faster and younger, we got that. Along with many vets added, and healthier players.

 

[Adam Seward]

I think we will be fine but I would take Taylor with open arms. Worked well with Sabans system at OLB, it would be nice even if he didnt workout with us to sign soon to get a copy of the playbook and get a grasp of our system while his kids are in school, sleeping or get bored of spending time with him. I see him helping the pass rush physically now but also help coaching up our new found youth at LB on some of the finer points from his veteran knowledge. Getting him certainly wouldnt break the bank or put us in future financial binds unlike what the potential cost Peppers would be (thats just a nasty thought to fathom though, Pepp at OLB)