Looking back at the infamous 4th down and 2 call...

[Colts Troll]

don't get too excited..... you guys have played a ridiculously WEAK schedule....

You will see more REAL teams in the playoffs..... INDY is not even 3rd favorites to win when considering the competition and history of CHOKE.

Well, I apologized for derailing this thread, yet you insist on inciting a USELESS and FUTILE flame war. Grow up a little bit. Show some respect, and gain some maturity. Ignore.

 

[HarkDawg]

I derailed this??? Plz.... you quoted me. You are a troll and should not even be here. Good to see you have better things to do other than hang in a PATRIOT message board. You derailed This by quoting an old post of mine and by being here...... you get real



Have a good day... I am done with you.

 

[HarkDawg]

btw you used "apologized" incorrectly... you used a past tense instead of a present, which you should have. The present was needed,


BYE Troll

 

[PatsFan24]

You realize Belichick has seen that this defense has absolutely no shot to contain Elite Quarterbacks like Brees and Manning when it comes down to the critical 4th quarter of games and you probably will see more of these gambles in tight 4th quarter situations even against subpar quarterbacks because simply put this defense cannot stop teams in the 4th quarter,there is no leadership and no motivation or emotion on this defense as of now and that certainly comes from the loss of Harrison,Bruschi and Vrable as experienced leadership players who are all gone.

This defense which normally starts to gel as the season progresses is doing a reversal this year,The defense is getting progressively worse as the weeks go on and it is quite concerning.

The only solace I got out of this loss is that I questioned BB going for it on
4th and 2 back 2 weeks ago and when they failed I was mad,but now I can see Manning was 99.9% going to score anyway after seeing the debacle of this defense so I don't feel as bad as I did when they lost then,they were going to lose anyway or at least a 99.9.% probability.

When you remember the famous phrase by Jim Mora saying "Playoffs?,your talking Playoffs?" you can relate to this team,if the team cannot hold together on the road and start winning we could actually lose this division and miss the playoffs again,next week is a MUST WIN no doubt about it because I don't think this team is going to win out,even at Buffalo could be tough.

Obviously this post is related to the aftermath of last night and the feeling is depressing right now and if they beat Miami everything will look better, but I don't feel Pees is doing a very good job of using his players to the best of their ability at this point so it is more than frustrating.

They got the first down, they just did not get credit for it. Too bad they had to blow two timeouts or they could have challenged it. Of if Kevin grabs to cleanly then they prob get a spot that puts them past the marker.

 

[HarkDawg]

They got the first down, they just did not get credit for it. Too bad they had to blow two timeouts or they could have challenged it. Of if Kevin grabs to cleanly then they prob get a spot that puts them past the marker.

Those F'ing refs screwed us...... no matter. it is what it is amigo.... sh!tty refs or not.

 

[PatsFan24]

Those F'ing refs screwed us...... no matter. it is what it is amigo.... sh!tty refs or not.

It was a close call and they did not get it, but they did not do enough to win the game either.

 

[Colts Troll]

btw you used "apologized" incorrectly... you used a past tense instead of a present, which you should have. The present was needed,


BYE Troll

Eh, now I cannot resist. If you are going to act like a 12 year old and claim that I used the incorrect tense of a verb, at least make sure that you are RIGHT. Look at my previous posts. I already apologized for derailing the thread - hence, the reason that I stated above that I "APOLOGIZED" (past tense) for derailing it. If you have not figured out who the actual troll is, well, maybe your friends have figured it out for you.

 

[maverick4]

Belichick put the game into the hands of his offense, and his offense failed. The offense lost the game.

 

[ausbacker]

Belichick put the game into the hands of his offense, and his offense failed. The offense lost the game.

Are you kidding? Last time I checked football was played across three units, offense, defense, special teams and the coaches.

The defense gave up 3 touchdowns in 5 minutes. The offense didn't convert on 1 drive, albeit a critical drive at the end of the game.

The whole team lost the game.

 

[maverick4]

The defense would have lost the game IF Belichick punted and the defense gave up the lead. Instead, the offense lost the game after Belichick put the fate of the entire game in their hands.

There is no clearer example of an offense losing a game. If you don't think this qualifies, then for you every loss is on the D since the last meaningful points of any loss are given up by the D.

 

[ausbacker]

The defense would have lost the game if Belichick punted and the defense gave up the lead. Instead, the offense lost the game after Belichick put the fate of the entire game in their hands.

There is no clearer example of an offense losing a game. If you don't think this qualifies, then for you every loss is on the D since the last meaningful points were given up by the D.

You have a very simplistic black and white view of the world don't you mav?

 

[maverick4]

You have a very simplistic black and white view of the world don't you mav?

Hardly. Obviously all units make mistakes, but you can point to things that lost games. The Patriots offense failed in that 4th down situation, as it has many times before, and the team lost because of it. If they had converted you would have said the offense won the game, since you're completely biased yet contradictory at the same time.

A black and white view is one like yours, where you think *any* criticism of the offensive or defensive calls is a direct attack on Belichick.

 

[ausbacker]

Hardly. Obviously all units make mistakes, but you can point to things that lost games. The Patriots offense failed in that 4th down situation, as it has many times before, and the team lost because of it. If they had converted you would have said the offense won the game, since you're completely biased yet contradictory at the same time.

A black and white view is one like yours, where you think *any* criticism of the offensive or defensive calls is a direct attack on Belichick.

I don't agree. Fumbles, interceptions and a failure to convert a fourth down at the end of the game were contributing factors to the loss, but so was the poor defensive effort in the final 5 minutes, giving up a 20 point lead. I'm not saying I don't disagree that it was an absolutely crucial drive, but it wasn't the only moment in the game that cost the Patriots the victory.

It was a total team loss, as I'm yet to see Peyton Manning throw touchdown passes against the New England offense.

 

[maverick4]

It was a total team loss, as I'm yet to see Peyton Manning throw touchdown passes against the New England offense.

This is such a cop-out. I doubt you're going around saying the 01-04 Superbowls were a total team effort. I also doubt you never single out an individual player, or individual units who won a game for the team.

Non-Pats-fans and Stat-whore-Pats-fans always say the defense won those championships. Others say the Brady game-winning drives and Vinatieri kicks won them.


Stop pretending you have this holistic view of the game of football, when you've never given entire team credit/blame to wins or losses before.

 

[ausbacker]

This is such a cop-out. I doubt you're going around saying the 01-04 Superbowls were a total team effort. I also doubt you never single out individual player, or individual units who won a game for the team.

Non-Pats-fans and Stat-whore-Pats-fans always say the defense won those championships. Others say the Brady game-winning drives and Vinatieri kicks won them.


Stop pretending you have this holistic view of the game of football, when you've never given entire team credit/blame to wins or losses before.

Now you're telling me what I see and look for when I watch a game of football?

You really continue to outdo yourself maverick, but I refuse to block you because everyone is entitled to an opinion.

 

[maverick4]

Most of the Colts wins, especially the comebacks, are because of Peyton Manning mostly. You're lying if you don't agree, just to keep up the facade that you see all games holistically.

Sure it's easier in say the NBA to say one guy won a game, than in a football game with 53 guys. However, it's a lot easier to point to an entire offensive or defensive unit that won or lost a game. This is completely fair to do, and it's unrealistic that you keep pretending you don't do this.

You're just so biased to defend the offense against ANYTHING that you're doing this. You will never ever admit that the offense lost a game for this team. The 4th down call was as cut and dry as it gets for an offensive unit to win or lose a game. If they had converted everyone would be talking about how the offense won the game with that conversion. Even Belichick said in press conferences that he thought he could win the game right there

 

[ausbacker]

Most of the Colts wins, especially the comebacks, are because of Peyton Manning mostly. You're lying if you don't agree, just to keep up the facade that you see all games holistically.

Sure it's easier in say the NBA to say one guy won a game, than in a football game with 53 guys. However, it's a lot easier to point to an entire offensive or defensive unit that won or lost a game. This is completely fair to do, and it's unrealistic that you keep pretending you don't do this.

You're just so biased to defend the offense against ANYTHING that you're doing this. You will never ever admit that the offense lost a game for this team. The 4th down call was as cut and dry as it gets for an offensive unit to win or lose a game. If they had converted everyone would be talking about how the offense won the game with that conversion. Even Belichick said in press conferences that he thought he could win the game right there

You're an incredibly tormented individual if you think I defend the offense for their shortcomings. You're simply caught up so much in yourself you can't see anything other than what you want to in what people say.

 

[HarkDawg]

Eh, now I cannot resist. If you are going to act like a 12 year old and claim that I used the incorrect tense of a verb, at least make sure that you are RIGHT. Look at my previous posts. I already apologized for derailing the thread - hence, the reason that I stated above that I "APOLOGIZED" (past tense) for derailing it. If you have not figured out who the actual troll is, well, maybe your friends have figured it out for you.

but i am 23..... You can check me out by clicking on my profile big boy.


edit- I must have missed that post of yours.

Go Away TROLL

 

[maverick4]

You're an incredibly tormented individual if you think I defend the offense for their shortcomings. .

Then admit the offense lost the game when it failed to convert the 4th down. If they had converted you would have said they won the game.

Prove that you don't have an inability to blame the offense for any loss. I know you can't.

.

 

[ausbacker]

Then admit the offense lost the game when it failed to convert the 4th down. If they had converted you would have said they won the game.

Prove that you don't have an inability to blame the offense for any loss. I know you can't.

.

The offense contributed to that loss by not converting the forth down you are correct, however the defense could have stopped Peyton Manning.. several times.
Had the offense converted the fourth, then you can claim they won the game on that play, but they didn't. At that point, the Patriots were up 34-28. Therefore, it was a team loss.