lol@Oakland, didn't have back up LS

[tasmlab]

BB has commented on this. He said it's imperative to always have a practiced backup for every position, sometimes 2 deep. However he also said that a plethora of injuries at one skilled (say LS) position can in a bad storm really kill you.

I'd be curious who the second option would be for Place Kicker. The punter first, then...? Edelman? Brady?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Agreed; sometimes 2 deep, sometimes not

 

[Froob]

They cant even sign Danny Aiken, but they can still grab former patriot great Tyler Ott

They'd probably be better off just letting somebody wing it than sign Aiken.

 

[Gumby]

I'd be curious who the second option would be for Place Kicker. The punter first, then...? Edelman? Brady?

EBNER......a (Rugby) man for all seasons (and all positions)

 

[The Gr8est]

They'd probably be better off just letting somebody wing it then sign Aiken.

Actually I thought I read that a team cut Aiken recently, so I think he's available.

For what it's worth.

 

[smurfalarm]

That PAT was absolutely monumental. You need to have someone capable of delivering a 7-yard snap in that situation. A 2-point attempt against the best D in the league should not be a better option.

It was early enough in the fourth quarter that it was probably a +EV calculation about how big a drop in conversion rate you have with a backup long snapper. A 10% drop in extra point conversion rate makes the relative expected value of a two point conversion attempt look really good. If it had been late in the fourth quarter, I would be questioning the call.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

BB has commented on this. He said it's imperative to always have a practiced backup for every position, sometimes 2 deep. However he also said that a plethora of injuries at one skilled (say LS) position can in a bad storm really kill you.

IIRC Wes Welker made an XP or FG while he was here.....

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I thought the Raiders only had the LS unavailable for that one play, not unavailable for the rest of the game.

Depending who your backup LS is, that's not totally unreasonable. Say your backup LS was some interior lineman who plays with lots of tape on his hands. You're going to have to cut all that tape off and you probably want to give him some warmup snaps. Even with a timeout, it'd be hard to get that all done between a TD and the PAT.

 

[smurfalarm]

IIRC Wes Welker made an XP or FG while he was here.....

As did Doug Flutie. High school teams frequently don't have dedicated kickers, punters, and long snappers, so it's not unusual for NFL players to have (limited) experience with specialized special teams roles.

 

[smurfalarm]

I thought the Raiders only had the LS unavailable for that one play, not unavailable for the rest of the game.

Depending who your backup LS is, that's not totally unreasonable. Say your backup LS was some interior lineman who plays with lots of tape on his hands. You're going to have to cut all that tape off and you probably want to give him some warmup snaps. Even with a timeout, it'd be hard to get that all done between a TD and the PAT.

fwiw, at the NFL level, the backup long snapper is very rarely an offensive lineman. The backup long snapper is usually at a position like tight end or linebacker: big enough to block, flexible enough to perform a proper long snap motion, fast enough to get upfield on punt coverage, strong enough to make tackles.

But yeah, the general thrust of your point is exactly right. Just like kicking or punting, long snapping is all about repetition. Long snappers spend every week perfecting the timing, targeting, and getting the right spin on their snaps. They take warm up snaps throughout the game. It's risky to depend on a backup long snapper coming in cold without warming up.

 

[MitchKumstein]

Does nobody remember that the exact same thing happened to the exact same team like two or three years ago? The Raiders lost their long snapper early in the season a few years ago, and they had a backup long snapper (a tight end I think), and he was so terrible because of lack of game experience that they had multiple botched snaps and blocked punts.

Belichick was asked today about backup long snappers, and as previously mentioned here he said that Ninko is our backup. But not only does Ninko do some snapping at practice, Belichick said that he does some long-snapping in preseason games. Belichick specifically pointed out that doing it in practice is nothing like doing it in a game

 

[Fencer]

Belichick was asked today about backup long snappers, and as previously mentioned here he said that Ninko is our backup. But not only does Ninko do some snapping at practice, Belichick said that he does some long-snapping in preseason games. Belichick specifically pointed out that doing it in practice is nothing like doing it in a game

I forget -- to what extent does he follow the same policy for placekicking, punting, or holding? I don't recall Gost punting in the preseason, Allen placekicking, Brady holding for FGs, etc.

 

[TomPatriot]

The Patriots do. They have Nink practice at LS for emergency situations. I'm sure they even have a 3rd who could perform competently if required. This is why they're the best.

What do you expect when the team's coach can give an ad hoc dissertation about the history, development and inportance of the LS?

 

[fnordcircle]

> not having 5 long snappers active every game day

****ing casuals

 

[BTTA]

fwiw, at the NFL level, the backup long snapper is very rarely an offensive lineman. The backup long snapper is usually at a position like tight end or linebacker: big enough to block, flexible enough to perform a proper long snap motion, fast enough to get upfield on punt coverage, strong enough to make tackles.

I've always wondered why enterprising Centers don't make a go of this role by taking an off season to learn it. It would be a great way to cement yourself as a #2 Center and backup inside lineman on a team, by also being the long snapper. And I can't believe that there's not enough time during the off season to give it a go.
Yeah, I'm sure some of them just don't have the flexibility to do it, but I'd bet several of them do.

 

[1960Pats]

So that explains it.
My apologies to the Raiders for my reaction to that decision.

 

[borg]

I don't get the Oakland lampooning.
If Ninkovich misses games and NE's long snapper back up alternatives #3-#53 all suck, should BB sign a back up snapper and dress him on the 46 man game roster?
Is it the thread consensus Oakland never gave practice reps to a third man?
Could all of Oakland's Plan C options been so bad that skipping the EP was the better % play?
Sometimes, teams just have to cross their fingers and hope Plan A, the starter, survives his low contact position.
Seems most teams are light in backup FG kickers as well........are they stupid too?

 

[smurfalarm]

I've always wondered why enterprising Centers don't make a go of this role by taking an off season to learn it. It would be a great way to cement yourself as a #2 Center and backup inside lineman on a team, by also being the long snapper. And I can't believe that there's not enough time during the off season to give it a go.
Yeah, I'm sure some of them just don't have the flexibility to do it, but I'd bet several of them do.

Actually that's how they used to get starting long snappers. Long snappers used to be centers who learned to long snap. But other than blocking, the skills don't translate super great. The mechanics of a long snap are very different from even a shotgun snap, and long snappers are generally smaller and faster than centers in part because they need to get upfield on punt coverage. So at an NFL level, they don't really do the whole center-to-long snapper thing very often anymore. It probably couldn't hurt your chances to get on a team to also have some long snapping skills as an inside lineman though.

 

[SalemPats]

We can laugh at the Raiders, but with the way Carr is progressing next year i could see us facing them in the AFC Championship game

 

[BTTA]

It probably couldn't hurt your chances to get on a team to also have some long snapping skills as an inside lineman though.

That's what I'm thinking. Perhaps it is worth a spot on the 46 for this one function, but the backup could be an interior lineman who can cement his value to the team.