Linebacker Play Was Great for now and into 2006

[mgteich]

With regard to DL backup, I would agree that a veteran free agent is a fine solution; ditto for depth at safety. Except for last year, we've always had one or two vets on the DL. I still would want a Day One DL pick, since Hill is certainly no guarantee. Your point is well taken that this year's LB crop may be unusual, and bb may find one that meets our needs.

What is amazing is that this team is in such good shape that we talking about using the draft entirely for depth, after signing Givens or another free agent wideout.

I dont think BB prefers DEs to play LB so much as he likes big, strong, physical players who can engage a offensive lineman and win.

If we draft a player to play LB Day One, I think we both agree that the player will probably be no lighter than 240#, and preferably in the 255# range-- McGinest sized. Claridge is a great case in point: 6-2 254#. That is certainly a criteria for BB in a LB. Generally, that means the player was a DE in college, but that doesnt preclude (IMO) the possibility of a big strong LB.

Recent years, we've had a lot of LBs coming out of college in the 220-235# range-- too light for BB as a LB. The best of last year's crop: Thurman 237#, Tatupu 226#, Morrison 238#. This year, Ernie Sims (220#) for example... the only shot he has to make the Pats roster, as you say, is as a SS. He's the same size as Rodney.

But this year's draft class is different. Look how many top LB prospects are 240# or more: Greenway is 244#, Carpenter is 255#, Havner is 245#, Hawk is 240#, Schlegel is 245#, Parham is 253#. Generally LBs that big are really slow and clunky... but not this year.

Plus, add in the standard crop of DE tweeners: Dumervil is 256#, Lawson is 245#.

Fertile ground this year, and an unquestionable need. Whether a DE tweener or an big college LB.



I agree with all this, but there's no need to use a day one pick for it. Bringing someone onto the roster in free agency-- standard two-year contract-- to provide rotational depth makes more sense to me. Our future is already fairly well established on the DL. Even if we take 4 players on Day One, we'd be better off taking the players at need positions where the need is for youth, or for special level of talent that you cant find in the FA market without breaking the bank.

 

[DaBruinz]

Wideout is the one position that scares me. The Pats are close to the projected cap of 92 million (I still say it will be over 100 to get the NFLPA to extend the CBA, but that is neither here nor there). They only have 2 wideouts signed beyond the end of this year. Deion Branch and Bethel Johnson. Branch is signed through 2006 and Bethel through 2007. They signed Mushinski and Stone to futures deal. Though I was a Bethel supporter, I just don't see the Pats keeping him, honestly.

Bam Childress, PK Sam, A. Davis, T. Brown, D. Givens, T. Dwight are ALL UFA. I can't even venture a guess as to who will and won't be back. I wouldn't mind seeing the Pats pick up Dwight's option. I also wouldn't mind them bringing back Troy, Bam and Sam. But who knows what will happen.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats chose 2 WRs in this draft in this draft. I would love for them to grab Stouvall. I honestly believe he could be a taller version of Givens. The problem is that Stouvall will probably be a 3rd round pick because of the noteriety he's gotten from the Weis offense.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I keep thinking about what was written in "Patriot Reign". BB took the advice of Jimmy Johnson, and wrote down the players he would like to draft. Regardless of position, he will try to draft his favorite players from this list. It hasn't worked out perfect all the time, but it was interesting to see who was on his list and who wound up Pats, for example, guys like Assante Samuel (worked out ok) and Dan Klecko (jury is out, but I think he will be gone after training camp), and who didn't make it to the Pats (Troy Polumalu, ouch, woulda liked him as a Patriot).

There will be several LB and DB studs on his list, but you can be sure that he will suprise us and keep us guessing. Unfortunately, Bethel Johnson was on his list instead of Anquan Boldin, and to think we traded up to pick Bethel Johnson, yuck.

 

[DaBruinz]

I would suggest that you save this post. It is an excellent demonstration that we have no critical need at defensive back. I too would re-sign Hawkins.

S: Wilson, Hawkins, Sanders,Scott/Stone
C: Hobbs,Samuel,Starks,Gay,Poteat/Scott

The question is whether this nine so solid that a Day One draftee wouldn't make the team? There are many possiblities.

1) We could keep 10 defensive backs (didn't we start with 10 this year?)
2) We could have a camp injury.
3) We night not be able to come to an acceptable deal with Starks.
4) We could choose to cut both Guss Scott and Stone.
5) We could choose to cut both Poteat and Chad Scott.

I think that there may be many draftees or free agents who could imporve this team. And that, after all, is the measure of any transaction.

I do believe that bb will have a team ready for training camp, even before the draft. I would not be surprised to see us bring in two or three defensive backs.
----------------------------------------------

MG -
I totally understand what you are saying with the different options. However Poteat and Scott are UFA currently. As is Michael Stone.

Do I think the Pats could draft someone early for a DB? Yes. But ONLY if they feel he's a guaranteed LOCK to make the team.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with this analysis. I also expect us sign 2-5 free agents before the draft, including some of our own.

Wideout is the one position that scares me. The Pats are close to the projected cap of 92 million (I still say it will be over 100 to get the NFLPA to extend the CBA, but that is neither here nor there). They only have 2 wideouts signed beyond the end of this year. Deion Branch and Bethel Johnson. Branch is signed through 2006 and Bethel through 2007. They signed Mushinski and Stone to futures deal. Though I was a Bethel supporter, I just don't see the Pats keeping him, honestly.

Bam Childress, PK Sam, A. Davis, T. Brown, D. Givens, T. Dwight are ALL UFA. I can't even venture a guess as to who will and won't be back. I wouldn't mind seeing the Pats pick up Dwight's option. I also wouldn't mind them bringing back Troy, Bam and Sam. But who knows what will happen.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats chose 2 WRs in this draft in this draft. I would love for them to grab Stouvall. I honestly believe he could be a taller version of Givens. The problem is that Stouvall will probably be a 3rd round pick because of the noteriety he's gotten from the Weis offense.

 

[ilduce06410]

When Bruschi is in, this is one of the best LB groups ever. Getting Colvin to replace TJ/Phifer (with Vrabes moving inside) put the finishing touches on an incredible group. We do need to draft some youth but not necessarily in the first round. We don't know how they feel about TBC and Claridge but with the extra picks I would expect to see a couple of LB taken at some point. Willie is 34 and Bruschi is 32, they won't go on forever.

After 4.5 sacks yesterday from Willie I bet Colvin has a big game next week with the offenses moving extra help to Willie's side.

colvin has certainly gotten his mind right about that hip. kudos to him--took a lot af hard work to get back to doing everything a nfl LB has to do. it's wonderful to see him now. he draws attention from the O-line and sometimes the RB, too. result: either colvin or willie ray RUNS WILD on the pass rush. send in a linebacker too, and you hae danggerous situations for QB. it has only been like this for 5-6 games, so there's not a whole lot of video on it.

 

[rhubma]

[QUOTE

Bam Childress, PK Sam, A. Davis, T. Brown, D. Givens, T. Dwight are ALL UFA. .[/QUOTE]


Are you sure about Bam & Sam? I would think they would be RFAs as they have been with the team under 3 years. And I think they both have an NFL future - According to reports, Sam is being mentored by Deion Branch and Troy Brown has been working with Childress. It was curious to me though that Sam wasn't elevated for the last game and Bam was...

 

[AzPatsFan]

PatSox, Bill actually HAD drafted an OL on Day one. Matt Light in 2000 in the 2nd round.

And....Don't forget the first draft pick that Belichick made as a Patriot Head Coach was Adrien Klemm, in the second round. The first round choice went to pay the Jets for Him!

 

[AzPatsFan]

There just are not many openings...

rook,

As almost always, we agree on our needs. My disagreements with you are

1) I believe that if we draft a future starter at OLB on Day One, that player would be likely to have been a college DE.

2) I have doubt that we could upgrade on Klecko and/or Wright. Even if believe (drinking the koolaid) that Hill is a future star, or at least a major contributer, we still have a spot for a DL to replace Klecko and/or Wright. With all our depth, we have serious issues if one of our starting defensive linemen injured. IMHO, we need five quality players to be in the rotation, and another to have a few reps, and be able to contribute more if there is an injury. Wright is OK at the end of the bench, but he isn't part of the rotation. Hopefully Hill and/or Klecko's replacement will be a contributer.

MGT,

This has been my position all along. Bill and Scott have methodically built this team addressing every area in turn. The Offense takes longer but is done, save for a future first string "big back" to take Dillon's spot in a year or three.

The last and oldest area is the LBing. I have said that the toughest position the Patriots have to fill is the DE/OLB/Elephant that Willie plays. He was a #4 pick in the first round and was chosen as the next LT/Andre Tippett. He got #55 a LB number.

I could even see the heresy of trading up into the first round to secure the guy, if he is there that Bill wants there. The only guys who "fit" are Matty Kiawanuka and or Manny Lawson, and perhaps Lawson is not all that good. A very big OLB like Carpenter or Havener or Grenwell might fit the bill as well.

Off of the playoff game against the Jags, Vrabel demoed play calling; he could take over and QB the defense when Bruschii hangs it up. Without that responsibility, Monty Besiel and Chad Brown could play well. The depth at ILB just zoomed, IMHO. Adda TJ type like Shnelgal or Roach in the #3-#4 area and the ILB rebuild is done for half a decade.

Mike Stone presents a quandry. He is not good enough to start at SS, but he is BETTER and faster than Izzo and Davis on ST. Look at his ST tackle stats in 7 games versus these guys in 16! Pencil him in for one of the 10 DB positions next year, irrespective of whether he takes a regular safety snap or not. I think I'll start nicknaming him "Cherrystone"

The LB/ST depth of Izzo, Davis, Alexander are up for grabs. There is plenty of room to groom a future star at LB in those positions. Meanwhile Chatham and TBC are good regular D depth and ST contributors, but I'm not sure they will ever be more than that.

 

[patsox23]

good point, AZPats. I think we'll go LB at least once on Day One.

 

[shakadave]

What ever happened to P. K. Sam? I know, practice squad, but what's up with him?

 

[NOWAKJOE]

Hate to jump in late on a thread like this, but jump I will. We do need help at LB and DB. But BB will only take guys built like college DE's to convert to LB. How'd he put it ? He wants em 6'6", able to run real fast, and can cover recievers, or something like that. Which means project. Which means probably won't commit to a 1st for a LB. He has similar desires for SS. Looking for a college LB to fill that one. Again no 1st rounders there either. My guess is he will try again to fill these needs via free agency and will go best available on day 1.

He wanted to move up and grab J. Vilma, and he is a smallish LB.

 

[Ring 6]

And....Don't forget the first draft pick that Belichick made as a Patriot Head Coach was Adrien Klemm, in the second round. The first round choice went to pay the Jets for Him!

I dont think you can kill BB for the Klemm pick. It was absolutely a need. And Klemms problem was injury not ability or play. You cant predict that.

However, if you told me you would trade me Bill Belichick and Adrian Klemm for a 1st and 2nd, I would make it a point to call you every other day and ask me what other trades you would like to make.