Lawyer Milloy cut!

[dryheat44]

I will admit that his skills have severly diminished but do you really think Sanders and Scott are better than him?

Yes. Their run support is as good, they're faster, they're better in coverage (at least Sanders), they're excellent special teams players, and they're cheaper.

The edge Milloy would have would be leadership, but it seems this defense gets plenty of that as it is, and some coaches have called Milloy "selfish" before.

The Pats cutting Milloy is what actually spurred my first post at the old site. I was one of (IIRC) two who was in favor of his release. I thought then that he was a liability on the field, and his best quality was leadership, but Belichick would be crazy to pay that much for a locker room guy.

I just mention this in case the impression is that I'm bitter at Milloy from when he left. I'm not bitter, I would have packed his bags for him.

 

[ClosingTime]

Milloy is still a very good safety. Don't see what you guys are talking about him burning bridges. What BB did to him cutting him 2 weeks before the season, leaving him limitied options to get on with another team of his choosing, was disgraceful. All you that talk about NE players should take a hometown discount. After witnessing that debacle, why on earth would they.

 

[dryheat44]

Milloy is still a very good safety. Don't see what you guys are talking about him burning bridges. What BB did to him cutting him 2 weeks before the season, leaving him limitied options to get on with another team of his choosing, was disgraceful. All you that talk about NE players should take a hometown discount. After witnessing that debacle, why on earth would they.

Spoken like someone with no knowledge of the situation.

Milloy had a very large salary that had the Pats over the cap when they signed Ted Washington a month before the season. Belichick and the Postons discussed a renegotiation of a little bit of money. The Postons, after contacting several teams around the league (read tampering), advised Milloy to not take "one dime" less than his contract called for, because at least three other teams (Wash, Buff, Sea) were willing to sign him to a new deal with a huge signing bonus (money for Postons). At that point, Belichick cut him. I don't feel bad for Milloy being cut a week before opening day, and neither should the other players; the guy already had a contract worked out elsewhere.

Milloy was vastly overrated then, because he made those kind of "jacked up" hits on a defenseless ballcarrier he made Pro Bowls but he was a mediocre open field tackler, poor in coverage, and slow in pursuit. Now he's worse in all three areas.

 

[spacecrime]

The difference is, we don't need Bledsoe. Milloy on the other hand would be a very useful addition.

he was very useful as a bill.he'dbe even more useful to us if he'd sign with the jets or fins

 

[dryheat44]

he was very useful as a bill.he'dbe even more useful to us if he'd sign with the jets or fins

Maybe he and Adam will join Parcells' ex-Patriate colony in Dallas.

 

[ClosingTime]

Spoken like someone with no knowledge of the situation.

Milloy had a very large salary that had the Pats over the cap when they signed Ted Washington a month before the season. Belichick and the Postons discussed a renegotiation of a little bit of money. The Postons, after contacting several teams around the league (read tampering), advised Milloy to not take "one dime" less than his contract called for, because at least three other teams (Wash, Buff, Sea) were willing to sign him to a new deal with a huge signing bonus (money for Postons). At that point, Belichick cut him. I don't feel bad for Milloy being cut a week before opening day, and neither should the other players; the guy already had a contract worked out elsewhere.

Milloy was vastly overrated then, because he made those kind of "jacked up" hits on a defenseless ballcarrier he made Pro Bowls but he was a mediocre open field tackler, poor in coverage, and slow in pursuit. Now he's worse in all three areas.

Yeah, and that situation happens with every team, every year. It's only the Pats that deemed it okay to cut a veteran starter two weeks before the season started. Is it within their right? Sure. Is it disrepectful to a player who has played well for you? Absolutely. Does it preclude Milloy from wanting to come back to the Pats? Yes. Does it make other NE players less willing to take a 'hometown discount'? Absolutely.
Try seeing the forest throught the trees.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

I think some people are allowing their personal biases towards Milloy to interfere with their objectivity in judging him as a football player.

Is Milloy a pro bowl SS? Not a chance but anyone who thinks a converted CB named Hawkins or Gus Scott, a career backup named Stone, and/or unknowns named Sanders and Scott are better than Milloy isn't being rational.

 

[dryheat44]

Yeah, and that situation happens with every team, every year. It's only the Pats that deemed it okay to cut a veteran starter two weeks before the season started. Is it within their right? Sure. Is it disrepectful to a player who has played well for you? Absolutely. Does it preclude Milloy from wanting to come back to the Pats? Yes. Does it make other NE players less willing to take a 'hometown discount'? Absolutely.
Try seeing the forest throught the trees.

The Pats had to restructure somebody for salary cap issues within a couple of weeks. Were they wrong for attempting to restructure the guy on the team whose salary was the most out of whack with production? Were the wrong for releasing him when he told them to f off?

Is it disrespectful? No. They gave him every chance to stay for a slight renegotiation (and really, it wasn't much). He refused. It was his right to refuse, and the Pats right to release him.

Does it preclude Milloy from wanting to come back. Hell no. He understands the business angle better than most. He's publicly said he wishes he had stayed in New England, and if the Patriots make an offer in line with what other teams will pay him, he'll jump on it.

Does it make other players less willing to take a hometown discount? For some players, sure. Each player has an evaluation of his skills and places his own emphasis on money. McGinest repeatedly takes a hometown discount. Brady, Brown, Bruschi off the top of my head. Harrison and Colvin took less to come to New England. Seymour has made it clear that he will not take a hometown discount. Washington, Milloy, Patten, and Law did not. Who knows how the Milloy situation affected their decision.

I submit, though, that most GMs would have handled the situation the same way. And if not, then said GM is a ****ie for letting the player dictate how things are going to be.

 

[dryheat44]

I think some people are allowing their personal biases towards Milloy to interfere with their objectivity in judging him as a football player.

Is Milloy a pro bowl SS? Not a chance but anyone who thinks a converted CB named Hawkins or Gus Scott, a career backup named Stone, and/or unknowns named Sanders and Scott are better than Milloy isn't being rational.

Or, to put it another way, people who think that Milloy is no longer useful on the field have actually watched football the last several years.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Or, to put it another way, people who think that Milloy is no longer useful on the field have actually watched football the last several years.

The question is "is Milloy more useful than duds named Hawkins, Scotts squared, Stone and Sanders?".

I doubt anyone with an ounce of objectivity in their body believes that Milloy is worse than what we trotted out onto the field at SS after Harrison went down last season.

BTW, I live in Bills territory and watched them play far too many times last year. Milloy's play was the least of that teams worries.

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

I think some people are allowing their personal biases towards Milloy to interfere with their objectivity in judging him as a football player.

Is Milloy a pro bowl SS? Not a chance but anyone who thinks a converted CB named Hawkins or Gus Scott, a career backup named Stone, and/or unknowns named Sanders and Scott are better than Milloy isn't being rational.

I've got no personal biases towards Milloy, but I disagree with you on Hawkins. With very little experience in our system and at the position, The Hawk stepped up very quickly. Even as green as he was, he was starting to really be a player back there and given more time to wrap his brain around the safety position, I'm very comfortable starting him over Milloy.

He covers better, he's got more speed, and more importantly, when Hawk grew into his role, the secondary around him improved, and that's vital. Does he have the Rodney-like ability to hold a patch-work secondary together for an entire season like Harrison did? Probably not, but he's already shown enough leadership and on-field chemistry with the rest of our defense to lead me to believe that at least for the Patriots, Hawk would be better than Milloy.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

I've got no personal biases towards Milloy, but I disagree with you on Hawkins. With very little experience in our system and at the position, The Hawk stepped up very quickly. Even as green as he was, he was starting to really be a player back there and given more time to wrap his brain around the safety position, I'm very comfortable starting him over Milloy.

He covers better, he's got more speed, and more importantly, when Hawk grew into his role, the secondary around him improved, and that's vital. Does he have the Rodney-like ability to hold a patch-work secondary together for an entire season like Harrison did? Probably not, but he's already shown enough leadership and on-field chemistry with the rest of our defense to lead me to believe that at least for the Patriots, Hawk would be better than Milloy.

You're entitled to your opinion certainly as am I.

Not sure I want Milloys as our starting SS next year but, I hope like heck, Hawkins isn't our starting SS next year. He's fine in a backup role and as a ST's guy but if he's starting for us again at SS, we are in trouble.

 

[dryheat44]

The question is "is Milloy more useful than duds named Hawkins, Scotts squared, Stone and Sanders?".

I doubt anyone with an ounce of objectivity in their body believes that Milloy is worse than what we trotted out onto the field at SS after Harrison went down last season.

BTW, I live in Bills territory and watched them play far too many times last year. Milloy's play was the least of that teams worries.

I think Hawkins with a full TC is a better option than Milloy. I think Milloy and Sanders are at worst equals right now, but heading in opposite directions. I don't know what we have in G Scott or Stone at safety. Scott has looked good between season-ending injuries, and Stone looked decent for a guy who is primarily a ST player. But I know Scott and Stone are very good ST players and Milloy is not. I've never thought highly of Chad Scott. A 10th DB on the roster/gameday inactive type.

Would Milloy have helped more last year than guys being signed on Tuesday to start Sunday? Yes, absolutely I agree, just by virtue of familiarity of the defense. Do I think that he'd win a job in training camp this season? Honestly, no. Not unless Harrison's injury is going to shelve him long-term, and Sanders and Scott prove that they don't get it, and the Pats don't draft a guy like Simpson or Huff.

I'm sorry you live in Bills territory. I lived up there for 5 years. Beautiful summers, but football season for a Pats fan is terrible. They did have bigger problems than Milloy. Namely the entire offensive side of the ball. But I wouldn't list Milloy as one of their good players either.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I will admit that his skills have severly diminished but do you really think Sanders and Scott are better than him?

Milloy - no way!
At this stage there's not much difference between them since Milloy is too slow to cover. The other guys have potential upside with another year in the Pats system. You cut them to re-sign Milloy? Did you forget that BB regards the guy as a problem in the locker room? Although BB or I for that matter could not care less what Milloy said after his departure he was always known as a locker room problem.

 

[patsfan13]

I read Patriot Reign and I never said he was all that. I just feel he's still alot better than what we have on this team now other than Harrison and Wilson of course.

I'd rather have Hawkins (better coverage skills ) & Sanders (youth & upside), I am presuming Harrison is back. rahter #5 S be G Scott or a draftee.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Would Milloy have helped more last year than guys being signed on Tuesday to start Sunday? Yes, absolutely I agree, just by virtue of familiarity of the defense. Do I think that he'd win a job in training camp this season? Honestly, no. Not unless Harrison's injury is going to shelve him long-term, and Sanders and Scott prove that they don't get it, and the Pats don't draft a guy like Simpson or Huff.

The point you raise about Milloy's familiarity in the system is certainly reason enough to have him start over duds like Hawkins or Scott or whomever else we now have backing up Harrison.

I mean it's not like we are asking Milloy to replace even a decent starter out of this pathetic grouping.

I'm sorry you live in Bills territory. I lived up there for 5 years. Beautiful summers, but football season for a Pats fan is terrible. They did have bigger problems than Milloy. Namely the entire offensive side of the ball. But I wouldn't list Milloy as one of their good players either.

As I said I saw many Bills games and, more importantly to this discussion, have listened to analysis galore on the merits of Milloy as a player for the Bills.

Milloy's play last year wasn't pro bowl calibre but it was far better than average, despite having to cover up Troy Vincent's struggles opposite him. Milloy still struggles in pass coverage mode - and thus was expendable because he is a horrible fit for the Bills proposed cover 2 scheme - but he's not much worse in this department than Harrison is, and it isn't an issue when Harrison is out there for us.

At any rate, give me a still productive vet who is well versed in the Pats complicated secondary anyday over what we now have as options.

 

[shirtsleeve]

Is Lawyer almost done? Yup. Does he have attitude? Dunno, did before, but this may humble him a bit. Does he represent value? Depends on the price tag.

All that aside, he would be, at worst, #2 on the depth chart behind one of our two starters. And the guy still hits like a hammer. Kinda reminds me of the mastercard commercial.
"Rodney and Lawyer combining on a hit to (insert your most hated reciever here), priceless!"

He could bring that fear back into the hearts of recievers and especially slot WR and TE's everywhere.

I say, if the price is right, let him come back to retire a Pat, and sit back and watch Rodney and him teach the Johnsons of the world the definition of pain!

 

[alexhb]

IIRC Milloy was willing to restructure down from $4.2M to $3.6M but the Pats wanted him at $3.0M. He felt he was being fair by willing to come down to $3.6M.

 

[DaBruinz]

I will admit that his skills have severly diminished but do you really think Sanders and Scott are better than him?

I think that Sanders and Scott are young players who will get better and can only do so if given the chance. They won't get that chance with Milloy around.

 

[DaBruinz]

Milloy is still a very good safety. Don't see what you guys are talking about him burning bridges. What BB did to him cutting him 2 weeks before the season, leaving him limitied options to get on with another team of his choosing, was disgraceful. All you that talk about NE players should take a hometown discount. After witnessing that debacle, why on earth would they.

Obviously, you are clueless to what happened, ClosingTime. You should have just not posted, but since you did, here is the info:

1) Milloy was actually cut the week prior to the start of the season. In fact, 4 days prior to the game against Buffalo.

2) Milloy is the one who set the date for the end of the contract negotiations. If you want to find fault with someone, look at Milloy.

3) Milloy is the one who refused to restructure his contract to something managable after his play was less than stellar during the 2002 season.

4) Milloy and his agent were actively talking to other teams about how much Milloy could get on the Market. Its why he refused to restructure his contract.

5) Due to injuries, the Patriots were 2 million over the cap. They had already restructure several players, leaving it down to Milloy and Law who could be cut to clear enough cap room if they were let go. The Pats chose Milloy because they had someone very capable to take his spot in Harrison.

So, I hope that you understand the situation better now that you have the actual facts and not just the BS you posted.