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Cool Link Lawrence Guy on the Patriot way and Malcolm Butler

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Sep 12th

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Biffins

In the Starting Line-Up

I really appreciated these words from Lawrence Guy. I usually don't pay much attention to interview segments, especially on hot topics, so I thought this deserved its own thread.

First, there may be bias in Guy's view since he's one of the middle class earners who came to New England and benefitted from Belichick's approach, as he made more money because the stars were taking less. It's good for him. But his overall outlook just seems correct to me. A team's mindset is important, a player's selflessness too, the coaches as well. And the culture is built through consistency.

Even when things go wrong (as with the Malcolm Butler situation he addresses) he lays it out in a fascinating way.

About the 2nd Philly SB, Guy...

1. Thinks the game went badly for them, can't comprehend why, and they should have won.
2. Says that Malcolm Butler would have been a big help because he was a playmaker.
3. Does not say the absence of Malcolm lost them the game because it's their job to step up when a man goes down.
4. Swears he does not know what Malcolm did.
5. Swears that Malcolm absolutely knows what he did.

My takeaway as a fan is that the benching deflated the team. Just as Welker's foot-in-mouth moment deflated them. Welker's presence (if not Welker himself) was easily worth another 7 points.

As fans we have to just take this as moments when we have to pay the piper for the Patriot Way. If the Patriot Way requires accountability, then we can't complain when that very rigid structure leads us to big losses. And yes I believe that benching Welker/Butler is the thing that turned into losses.

But what if players weren't made accountable? Do you win all the other big games? I don't think so. You can tell in Guy's words that he understands that this is the price you pay for winning.

Good luck to the Chiefs in trying to manage this three-headed monster. It's not easy. People do NOT give enough respect to how Belichick has controlled this part of the game. It's so easy to criticize him for Butler but few have considered what would have happened if we just poked holes into the Patriot Way.

“When you see the ‘Patriot Way’ in the dictionary, it’s got Tom Brady’s picture next to it. ....... Tom Brady is the ‘Patriot Way.’ That’s why he’s in the Super Bowl & the Patriots aren’t.” Danny Amendola
 

Biffins

In the Starting Line-Up
The Malcolm Butler bench was devastating. I will never get over it. It wasn't just the emotional impact on the team. Literally every guy in the secondary played a different position. Imagine playing a certain position all season and then with no practice you have a guy play slot corner when they never did, a safety play corner, it was a total disaster. The Eagles did not punt a single time all game.....

And Brady frankly played the best of his 9 Superbowls. And still lost. That lost is on BB's ego. It's not worth the price. No, no, no.

It's ok to say BB was wrong. It's not frickin blasphemy. We can appreciate him and still say he was wrong.
 

Shed83

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I know we beat them 45-3 only a couple weeks prior....BUT that team was very good defensively. Had we gone up 10+ points...the game would have broke open because they would have started throwing it instead of running the ball and punting...but we never did. Pat Chung's fake punt call was the difference in the game, IMO. When the 2nd half started...we went on like a 10 minute drive to just score a TD....

Alge Crumpler dropping one of the easiest TD catches ever was also a huge swing in the game
 

signbabybrady

Pro Bowl Player
I recall reports of a physical confrontation after missing curfew and returning under the influence. We will never know unless Bill spills all in a book. My guess he's going to stick with "coach's decision" to the grave. The fact that we are talking about it years later is both ridiculous and mind blowing.
It was described to me as a verbal fight.
 

venecol

The FRG has a little ****
I think it was more personal for Butler.....if it was a fight between he and junior, it would have come out....no reason not to....someone would have come out with it, and I doubt BB would take a side the day of the superbowl......it would be vindictive and not his MO
Actually, it's the one of the many stories that makes the most sense and the reason why Butler wouldn't want it to come out. Fighting with coaches wouldn't be viewed as a positive trait by the other teams and he was an UFA at the end of that season. Maybe the altercation (verbal or physical) didn't happened in front of anyone and Jr. went crying to daddy. Nepotism is never a good thing.
 

DropKickFlutie

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
And Brady frankly played the best of his 9 Superbowls. And still lost. That lost is on BB's ego. It's not worth the price. No, no, no.

It's ok to say BB was wrong. It's not frickin blasphemy. We can appreciate him and still say he was wrong.

Yes. I'm a Belichick fan. But that game I was in shock and confusion all game wondering why Butler was crying and not playing, Jordan f'ing Richards was in, and our DBs were all playing positions they never played all season long.

.
 

Bonzo

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Didn't Marquis Flowers once promise that some day he'd spill the beans? Def sounds like there are in fact beans to spill.

But arguments happen all the time, and nobody goes punished; the severity of the penalty does remind of Welker and makes me think that somebody crossed a serious personal boundary somewhere
 

crawhammer

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
As fans we have to just take this as moments when we have to pay the piper for the Patriot way. If the Patriot way requires accountability, then we can't complain when that very rigid structure leads us to big losses. And yes I believe that benching Welker/Butler is the thing that turned into losses.

But what if players weren't made accountable? Do you win all the other big games? I don't think so. You can tell in Guy's words that he understands that this is the price you pay for winning.

Good luck to the Chiefs in trying to manage this three-headed monster. It's not easy. People do NOT give enough respect to how Belichick has controlled this part of the game. It's so easy to criticize him for Butler but few have considered what would have happened if we just poked holes into the Patriot Way.
That is exactly what I would say if I was being 100% sarcastic. The Patriot Way... what a load of cow dung. Aside from IBWT, the Patriot Way is the most overused and useless thing ever attributed to the Patriot Dynasty. They won championships because they had enough good players playing well and especially playing well at the key moments (in particular the quarterback).

If your (i.e. an individual's) rigid structure brings down an ENTIRE SEASON for an ENTIRE TEAM full of many other individuals who put their blood, sweat and tears into having the unique opportunity of completing a year's long journey together with a championship then you really need to reevaluate your objectives and purpose because you just F*CKED UP in a major way.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
That is exactly what I would say if I was being 100% sarcastic. The Patriot Way... what a load of cow dung. Aside from IBWT, the Patriot Way is the most overused and useless thing ever attributed to the Patriot Dynasty. They won championships because they had enough good players playing well and especially playing well at the key moments (in particular the quarterback).

If your (i.e. an individual's) rigid structure brings down an ENTIRE SEASON for an ENTIRE TEAM full of many other individuals who put their blood, sweat and tears into having the unique opportunity of completing a year's long journey together with a championship then you really need to reevaluate your objectives and purpose because you just F*CKED UP in a major way.

6 rings, 9 super bowls, suck it
 

IllegalContact

PatsFans.com Supporter
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Actually, it's the one of the many stories that makes the most sense and the reason why Butler wouldn't want it to come out. Fighting with coaches wouldn't be viewed as a positive trait by the other teams and he was an UFA at the end of that season. Maybe the altercation (verbal or physical) didn't happened in front of anyone and Jr. went crying to daddy. Nepotism is never a good thing.
Trust me....the Titans knew the deal before they signed him
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
There is no way that Jets team was better.

And yes it's deflating when a defense realizes they have to rely on Jordan Richards instead of Malcolm Butler. They may be playing hard but they very well know the other offense is always going to find their weak spot and exploit it. So play hard, play like a Superman, but you're only as good as the weak spot on your team. Just like last year with Marshall Newhouse at LT. sure, start Jerry Rice, Randy Moss and Larry Fitzgerald at wideout. But if your LT gets beat in one second flat, it doesn't matter

The only problem is that you're re-writing history with your statements.
Butler's benching had nothing to do with Richards playing. Richards was playing because Patrick Chung got injured and for no other reason. This idea that Butler would have been on the field to replace Chung is false.

And Newhouse wasn't nearly as bad as you're making him out to be. He was below average, but he didn't allow a sack every snap or even every game.
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
Actually, it's the one of the many stories that makes the most sense and the reason why Butler wouldn't want it to come out. Fighting with coaches wouldn't be viewed as a positive trait by the other teams and he was an UFA at the end of that season. Maybe the altercation (verbal or physical) didn't happened in front of anyone and Jr. went crying to daddy. Nepotism is never a good thing.
You're insane if you think that Butler being benched was because of F'in nepotism.. You bang that drum every time you disagree with a Belichick decision and it's as stupid now as it was the first time you did it. Fact is that NO TEAM is going allow a player to show up to the team hotel under the influence and get into a verbal altercation or otherwise with a member of the coaching staff without there being a HARSH punishment. More so during SB week when EVERYTHING is under a microscope. More so if you're the Patriots.

WTF do you think the LEAGUE would have done if they found out the Patriots didn't discipline a player? HMM.. What do you believe would have happened to team morale if the team didn't discipline Butler or went easy on him? What do you think the stories would have been if the PRESS had actually gotten ahold of the real story?

BTW, I don't see you *****ing about Andy Reid's kid and nepotism. Haven't seen you complain about the other nepotism instances in the league.. It sure seems that you've got a hair across your butt about 2 guys who have EARNED their way up the coaching ranks. A statement that NUMEROUS people in the league have made about BOTH of Belichick's kids, mind you.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
The only problem is that you're re-writing history with your statements.
Butler's benching had nothing to do with Richards playing. Richards was playing because Patrick Chung got injured and for no other reason. This idea that Butler would have been on the field to replace Chung is false.

And Newhouse wasn't nearly as bad as you're making him out to be. He was below average, but he didn't allow a sack every snap or even every game.

Come on!! Seriously? Butler caused a cascade up and down the line.

Newhouse wasn't playing football for a year and a half before he became our starting OL. And he hasn't played football since. What does that tell you?

I seriously rate him as the worst LT I've ever seen in 4 1/2 decades of watching.

I'm not blaming Belichick since his presumed backup tackle retired before the year and Cajuste was injured, but Newhouse was horrifically bad.
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
That is exactly what I would say if I was being 100% sarcastic. The Patriot Way... what a load of cow dung. Aside from IBWT, the Patriot Way is the most overused and useless thing ever attributed to the Patriot Dynasty. They won championships because they had enough good players playing well and especially playing well at the key moments (in particular the quarterback).

If your (i.e. an individual's) rigid structure brings down an ENTIRE SEASON for an ENTIRE TEAM full of many other individuals who put their blood, sweat and tears into having the unique opportunity of completing a year's long journey together with a championship then you really need to reevaluate your objectives and purpose because you just F*CKED UP in a major way.
Thank you for continuing to show that you don't have the FIRST CLUE as to what you are talking about. Go back to whatever troll hole you came from. You're ruing the board with this sort of garbage.
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
Come on!! Seriously? Butler caused a cascade up and down the line.

Newhouse wasn't playing football for a year and a half before he became our starting OL. And he hasn't played football since. What does that tell you?

I seriously rate him as the worst LT I've ever seen in 4 1/2 decades of watching.

I'm not blaming Belichick since his presumed backup tackle retired before the year and Cajuste was injured, but Newhouse was horrifically bad.

YOU come on. You're full of crap that there was a cascade up and down the line. Butler's benching had ZERO to do with Richards playing. Richards was on the game day roster every game that year. He was a primary STs guy and took defensive snaps during the season. You're trying to make it sound like Richards was the 53rd man on the roster and hadn't done anything. Richards was on the field because of Chung's injury and for NO other reason. You claiming otherwise is ridiculousness on your part.

The fact that you make such a ridiculous claim about Newhouse and try to "drive it home" with your comment that he "hasn't played football since" when he actually took snaps for the Titans this season says you're pulling your "argument" out of your rear end. As for LTs who have been worse, you're claim to have watched 45 years of football rings hollow when the likes of Eugene Chung, Spencer Drango, or Matt Kalil. There are others like Tony Mandarich and Robert Gallery (who had to move to Guard he was so bad at LT and RT).
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
YOU come on. You're full of crap that there was a cascade up and down the line. Butler's benching had ZERO to do with Richards playing. Richards was on the game day roster every game that year. He was a primary STs guy and took defensive snaps during the season. You're trying to make it sound like Richards was the 53rd man on the roster and hadn't done anything. Richards was on the field because of Chung's injury and for NO other reason. You claiming otherwise is ridiculousness on your part.

The fact that you make such a ridiculous claim about Newhouse and try to "drive it home" with your comment that he "hasn't played football since" when he actually took snaps for the Titans this season says you're pulling your "argument" out of your rear end. As for LTs who have been worse, you're claim to have watched 45 years of football rings hollow when the likes of Eugene Chung, Spencer Drango, or Matt Kalil. There are others like Tony Mandarich and Robert Gallery (who had to move to Guard he was so bad at LT and RT).

I can't take anyone seriously who believes what you wrote about Newhouse. It's spectacularly ridiculous. Guy was totally out of football. Eating cheetos on a couch. Brady sure as hell had no faith in him as he'd drive the ball into the ground. I am 1000% confident that Brady shares my opinion of him.
 

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