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Cool Link Lawrence Guy on the Patriot way and Malcolm Butler

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upstater1

Pro Bowl Player

I really appreciated these words from Lawrence Guy. I usually don't pay much attention to interview segments, especially on hot topics, so I thought this deserved its own thread.

First, there may be bias in Guy's view since he's one of the middle class earners who came to New England and benefitted from Belichick's approach, as he made more money because the stars were taking less. It's good for him. But his overall outlook just seems correct to me. A team's mindset is important, a player's selflessness too, the coaches as well. And the culture is built through consistency.

Even when things go wrong (as with the Malcolm Butler situation he addresses) he lays it out in a fascinating way.

About the 2nd Philly SB, Guy...

1. Thinks the game went badly for them, can't comprehend why, and they should have won.
2. Says that Malcolm Butler would have been a big help because he was a playmaker.
3. Does not say the absence of Malcolm lost them the game because it's their job to step up when a man goes down.
4. Swears he does not know what Malcolm did.
5. Swears that Malcolm absolutely knows what he did.

My takeaway as a fan is that the benching deflated the team. Just as Welker's foot-in-mouth moment deflated them. Welker's presence (if not Welker himself) was easily worth another 7 points.

As fans we have to just take this as moments when we have to pay the piper for the Patriot way. If the Patriot way requires accountability, then we can't complain when that very rigid structure leads us to big losses. And yes I believe that benching Welker/Butler is the thing that turned into losses.

But what if players weren't made accountable? Do you win all the other big games? I don't think so. You can tell in Guy's words that he understands that this is the price you pay for winning.

Good luck to the Chiefs in trying to manage this three-headed monster. It's not easy. People do NOT give enough respect to how Belichick has controlled this part of the game. It's so easy to criticize him for Butler but few have considered what would have happened if we just poked holes into the Patriot Way.
 
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luuked

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My takeaway as a fan is that the benching deflated the team. Just as Welker's foot-in-mouth moment deflated them. Welker's presence (if not Welker himself) was easily worth another 7 points.

If the benching of one player is enough to deflate that so-called mental toughness of an entire team then that team has no business claiming "they should have won" afterwards. The entire Welker story is an even bigger narrative salad of ********: he missed one series. The Pats even went on to lead a series later.

People should stop trying to turn everything that happens on a football field in some kind of story. A lot of random, improbable **** happens and the team that adjust best to that -- or has the bigger margin to survive those situations due to superior talent -- will prevail. Sometimes **** ends up being so slanted towards one team that talent is not enough and the other team wins. Everything else is just the human mind trying to fit everything in the universe into some kind of convenient narrative.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
If the benching of one player is enough to deflate that so-called mental toughness of an entire team then that team has no business claiming "they should have won" afterwards. The entire Welker story is an even bigger narrative salad of ********: he missed one series. The Pats even went on to lead a series later.

People should stop trying to turn everything that happens on a football field in some kind of story. A lot of random, improbable **** happens and the team that adjust best to that -- or has the bigger margin to survive those situations due to superior talent -- will prevail. Sometimes **** ends up being so slanted towards one team that talent is not enough and the other team wins. Everything else is just the human mind trying to fit everything in the universe into some kind of convenient narrative.
There is no way that Jets team was better.

And yes it's deflating when a defense realizes they have to rely on Jordan Richards instead of Malcolm Butler. They may be playing hard but they very well know the other offense is always going to find their weak spot and exploit it. So play hard, play like a Superman, but you're only as good as the weak spot on your team. Just like last year with Marshall Newhouse at LT. sure, start Jerry Rice, Randy Moss and Larry Fitzgerald at wideout. But if your LT gets beat in one second flat, it doesn't matter
 

Hyped

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There is no way that Jets team was better.

I know we beat them 45-3 only a couple weeks prior....BUT that team was very good defensively. Had we gone up 10+ points...the game would have broke open because they would have started throwing it instead of running the ball and punting...but we never did. Pat Chung's fake punt call was the difference in the game, IMO. When the 2nd half started...we went on like a 10 minute drive to just score a TD....
 

XLIX

Pro Bowl Player
I don't buy any of the wild theories about him doing drugs or arguing with the coaches, but I do think the fact that he arrived a day late has something to do with it. I know we were all told he was a day late because of some unspecified "illness" but, to me, it is a helluva coincidence that the guy who got his own ride and showed up late ended up not playing.
 

luuked

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There is no way that Jets team was better.

And yes it's deflating when a defense realizes they have to rely on Jordan Richards instead of Malcolm Butler. They may be playing hard but they very well know the other offense is always going to find their weak spot and exploit it. So play hard, play like a Superman, but you're only as good as the weak spot on your team. Just like last year with Marshall Newhouse at LT. sure, start Jerry Rice, Randy Moss and Larry Fitzgerald at wideout. But if your LT gets beat in one second flat, it doesn't matter

So what ? That is exactly what mental toughness is supposed to be about.

That team compensated for the loss of HT -- the only competent LB after Bentley got knocked out of the season early against the Lions as well -- and made it to the SB while being attacked and exploited through the entire season at that level. They also lost JJones to a season ender against the Titans.

Should they have just folded and not even played after losing key pieces and having all kinds of weak spots ?

There is no way that Jets team was better.

They made fewer mistakes that day and deserved to win the game. That doesn't mean that they were the better team. It just means on that specific day they played their situations better and moved on. It is the beauty/horror of sports in one game elimination scenarios.
 

Steve:Section 102

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couple things I take away:
“The true Patriot Way is a player that’s willing to put his pride, willing to put everything aside, or a coach that’s willing to put his pride or everything aside to better the team,” he said.
This is the most accurate statement I have heard to date on the Patriot Way. Everything else is just noise.
“When you find out the answer, you let me know, too,” Guy said, laughing. “Him not playing, there’s a reason why. I can’t tell you the reason why because I don’t know the reason why. I truly don’t know why he didn’t play. The person that does know is Malcolm Butler. He knows. But at the end of the day, one player doesn’t change the outcome of the game; the team changes the outcome of the game. That one player was really good. He could have made some plays. But there’s still a lot of plays in that game that a lot of other players could have made. . . . But I don’t know what happened.”
I really don't want to have another Malcom Butler thread... but... This is a huge black mark on Bill's resume IMO. It certainly feels like a contributing factor in the deterioration of the Brady relationship. As much as we questioned it, the players had to as well. I get there comes a time when you look at a player you're trying to coach and go "enough is enough, I am done with this". In hindsight, is more damage done to the locker room by benching him or playing him? It had to be a tough decision, because it put the coaches in a tough spot. Win the game, and all is forgotten. Lose, and people are talking about it for a generation.
 
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IllegalContact

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I don't buy any of the wild theories about him doing drugs or arguing with the coaches, but I do think the fact that he arrived a day late has something to do with it. I know we were all told he was a day late because of some unspecified "illness" but, to me, it is a helluva coincidence that the guy who got his own ride and showed up late ended up not playing.

your bias is showing
 

venecol

The FRG has a little ****
BB benching Malcolm to protect his son and teach him a lesson rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and the team is still suffering the consequences with so many player and coaches departing in the last 2-3 years.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
So what ? That is exactly what mental toughness is supposed to be about.

That team compensated for the loss of HT -- the only competent LB after Bentley got knocked out of the season early against the Lions as well -- and made it to the SB while being attacked and exploited through the entire season at that level. They also lost JJones to a season ender against the Titans.

Should they have just folded and not even played after losing key pieces and having all kinds of weak spots ?



They made fewer mistakes that day and deserved to win the game. That doesn't mean that they were the better team. It just means on that specific day they played their situations better and moved on. It is the beauty/horror of sports in one game elimination scenarios.

Guy basically said what you're saying the next person is supposed to step up. But he also said he can't fathom why they couldn't stop the Eagles. I can. They had a very weak link that made it an 11 against 10 game. And all the players knew it. So those mentally tough guys were constantly let down. In soccer, you see it when no one ever passes the ball to the weak link. It's clear the players are taking it on themselves. They know.
 

Palm Beach Pats Fan

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BB benching Malcolm to protect his son and teach him a lesson rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and the team is still suffering the consequences with so many player and coaches departing in the last 2-3 years.
Wait... so YOU know exactly why MB was benched, but Lawrence Guy doesn't? Were you in some huddles or team meetings that Guy wasn't?
 
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KontradictioN

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Wait... so YOU kow exactly why MB was benched, but Lawrence Guy doesn't? Were you in some huddles or team meetings that Guy wasn't?
@signbabybrady said a long time ago that he had a source inside the org who said Butler got into a fight with his son the night before. That’s likely what @venecol is referring to. Take it for what it’s worth.
 

billdog3484

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BB benching Malcolm to protect his son and teach him a lesson rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and the team is still suffering the consequences with so many player and coaches departing in the last 2-3 years.

this is a ridiculous take. they won the super bowl the next damn year. give me a break.
 

IllegalContact

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@signbabybrady said a long time ago that he had a source inside the org who said Butler got into a fight with his son the night before. That’s likely what @venecol is referring to. Take it for what it’s worth.
I think it was more personal for Butler.....if it was a fight between he and junior, it would have come out....no reason not to....someone would have come out with it, and I doubt BB would take a side the day of the superbowl......it would be vindictive and not his MO
 

DropKickFlutie

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There is no way that Jets team was better.

And yes it's deflating when a defense realizes they have to rely on Jordan Richards instead of Malcolm Butler. They may be playing hard but they very well know the other offense is always going to find their weak spot and exploit it. So play hard, play like a Superman, but you're only as good as the weak spot on your team. Just like last year with Marshall Newhouse at LT. sure, start Jerry Rice, Randy Moss and Larry Fitzgerald at wideout. But if your LT gets beat in one second flat, it doesn't matter

The Malcolm Butler bench was devastating. I will never get over it. It wasn't just the emotional impact on the team. Literally every guy in the secondary played a different position. Imagine playing a certain position all season and then with no practice you have a guy play slot corner when they never did, a safety play corner, it was a total disaster. The Eagles did not punt a single time all game.....
 

signbabybrady

Pro Bowl Player
@signbabybrady said a long time ago that he had a source inside the org who said Butler got into a fight with his son the night before. That’s likely what @venecol is referring to. Take it for what it’s worth.
Source was not inside the Org but a media source. It's years later so I'll just say I have a friend at a popular website and that's the story they had and they had a reason which I forget for why they didn't blast it out there. My guy seemed confident and there were other similar rumors so I believed it. The fact it had never truly been confirmed makes me wonder.

Also to be clear the rumor did not say physical fight.
 

Steve:Section 102

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Source was not inside the Org but a media source. It's years later so I'll just say I have a friend at a popular website and that's the story they had and they had a reason which I forget for why they didn't blast it out there. My guy seemed confident and there were other similar rumors so I believed it. The fact it had never truly been confirmed makes me wonder.

Also to be clear the rumor did not say physical fight.
I recall reports of a physical confrontation after missing curfew and returning under the influence. We will never know unless Bill spills all in a book. My guess he's going to stick with "coach's decision" to the grave. The fact that we are talking about it years later is both ridiculous and mind blowing.
 

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