Krafts Have a Decision To Make on GM

[Love The Drake]

Patriots fans should have a major shrine to Brady and a minor one to Rehbein.

Where BB deserves credit is carrying four QBs on the roster to protect Brady from being poached.

I knew from his rookie training camp Brady was more than camp arm.
The reports kept getting stronger and stronger as he moved up the depth chart I remember it seemed every patriots pro
Weekly he was doing more and more and I get shivers when I think about how they said if you didn’t know any better you would think this is Tom’s team not Drew’s.

Goosebumps and I was a huge Bledsoe fan.

 

[1960Pats]

I agree.

BB is tanking on purpose for this draft and he is not leaving. Money talks and for over 20 years BB has taken pretty good care of Krafts money. Yes, there have been bad contracts like Jonnu and Agahlor, but look at the Giants and Dan Jones. I see McDaniel's back at OC because BOB will take a college HC job.

I'm starting to come around to that also. Money does indeed talk and it seems to speak loudly to Bob. The fact that Bob can't lose money no matter what he does probably makes it easier to keep Bill.

So, in what year will Pats GM/HC Belichick get his cherished wins record. At the rate he's going he might have to stay until he's 80.

 

[Love The Drake]

I'm starting to come around to that also. Money does indeed talk and it seems to speak loudly to Bob. The fact that Bob can't lose money no matter what he does probably makes it easier to keep Bill.

So, in what year will Pats GM/HC Belichick get his cherished wins record. At the rate he's going he might have to stay until he's 80.

If we go anywhere but QB in the first or at worst second round I’m going to lose it.

 

[1960Pats]

Patriots fans should have a major shrine to Brady and a minor one to Rehbein.

Where BB deserves credit is carrying four QBs on the roster to protect Brady from being poached.

Yes, I think Bill knew that he had something once he got him and deserves credit for keeping him protected. It turned into the perfect storm of strict HC with a QB with a strong sense of respect for authority.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Patriots fans should have a major shrine to Brady and a minor one to Rehbein.

Where BB deserves credit is carrying four QBs on the roster to protect Brady from being poached.

Please. He deserves a lot more credit than that

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think he’s in the same seat next season.

I don't see it. There is no way Bob lets Bill own the draft board and determine how to spend ~$100m in cap space.

My biggest fear is when they bring back Mcdaniels which just seems like a given they give it another go with Mac.

I don't have a problem w/ JMD at all. Just like I don't have a problem w/ BOB. Those guys are good OCs.

The problems lie elsewhere.

 

[1960Pats]

I knew from his rookie training camp Brady was more than camp arm.
The reports kept getting stronger and stronger as he moved up the depth chart I remember it seemed every patriots pro
Weekly he was doing more and more and I get shivers when I think about how they said if you didn’t know any better you would think this is Tom’s team not Drew’s.

Goosebumps and I was a huge Bledsoe fan.

I remember those days of the great Brady/Bledsoe War. I remember having discussions on AOL with Pats fans that I lovingly referred to as Bledsholes. I even worked with one at the time who was upset and thought that Drew could have also won it all in 2001.

I remember thinking, even with little to look at, how much better I thought TB was than DB at so many things. And when he got his chance TB proved it to be true.

 

[1960Pats]

Please. He deserves a lot more credit than that

I don't think he meant that was the only thing he deserves credit for. Even I can't go that far.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't think he meant that was the only thing he deserves credit for. Even I can't go that far.

LOL

I respect your position on Bill because you make no bones about it...Unlike the mass of passive agressives we have here.

 

[1960Pats]

I don't see it. There is no way Bob lets Bill own the draft board and determine how to spend ~$100m in cap space.

I don't have a problem w/ JMD at all. Just like I don't have a problem w/ BOB. Those guys are good OCs.

The problems lie elsewhere.

The problems to me are roster related. They desperately need to do better there.

Now the question is, would Bill step down as GM and stay as HC. I'd be fine with that though Id' prefer a complete start with fresh blood. But I don't feel like Bill would stay on as just a HC.

 

[Steve102]

Where the hell do people get off telling Pats fans to find another team if they don't agree with their take? Why don't they leave if they've had enough of the fans here? Especially fans like myself who have been with the team long before Bob or Bill and before most fans here were born. WTF!?!

Bob Kraft didn't save this franchise, Brady did. Brady also made Bob and every other person in the organization filthy rich. When Tom told Bob that he was the best decision this team ever made he was spot on. Unfortunately, Bob and Bill showed their appreciation 20 years later by making the dumbest decision they ever made over a few dollars, and some fans here are scrambling around in circles trying to justify that stupidity.

Until Tom arrived the team had never won, with or without Kraft. And then, lo and behold, Bill, who started off at 5-11 in 2000 and 0-2 in 2001, was forced to put in Brady and won at an unprecedented rate, until, you guessed it, Bob and Bill decided that they wanted to save money on Tom's contract and the team went right back into the ****ter.

None of that is a coincidence and it clearly wasn't Belichick's magic using coaching techniques from a century ago that made Tom what he was, otherwise Drew would have been better than he was. It was obviously the other way around.

The funny thing is that it wasn't even Bill who wanted to draft Brady, **** Rehbein was the one pushing for Tom. Bill caught a break because he had a better QB than Manning with a better attitude. Does anyone in their right mind think that PEDton, or any other top QB, would have come here and played for peanuts and 1 year contracts, or been as subservient as Tom was. Of course not.

After the 20 great years we had I have no problem with the losing. But I sure as hell have the right to express my critical opinions without repeatedly being told to go find another team.

Where to begin?

Kraft 100% saved this franchise. This site would be the stlouisstallionsfans.com if not for Bob Kraft. Sorry @Ian. Your hatred for the Krafts for not keeping Tom has blinded you on this fact. Gillette was being built long before Tom Brady played a down for NE. If anything, Gillette is the House That Drew Built, certainly not Tom Brady.

Tom Brady did not develop in a vacuum. Coaching had a huge part in his growth, as I have said earlier (beating horse emoji goes here), he did not go from everything he does he must do quicker to GOAT without coaching. I will grant that it was Bill's job to get Brady the information he needed to pass the test and then get out of the way from 2015-2019, but Brady did not get to that point without coaching. Your hatred for Bill blinds you to this fact as well.

Tom was not subservient. That's a ludicrous statement. Tom knew that he was in the best situation for Tom Brady, otherwise he would have left long before 2020. Tom understood the economics of football better than a lot of people on this board, and his home town discounts allowed the team flexibility to keep the run going for an unprecedented 20 years. Twenty. Years. Let's not cry for Tom Brady, the man was paid over $300m in his career.

I am not happy about the current state of the team, and, to quote my favorite coach, it's a player's game. The players are not good enough, starting with the QB. But your absolute rage for Kraft and Belichick has gotta stop, man. They deserve a share of the credit.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The problems to me are roster related. They desperately need to do better there.

Agree.

Now the question is, would Bill step down as GM and stay as HC. I'd be fine with that though Id' prefer a complete start with fresh blood. But I don't feel like Bill would stay on as just a HC.

My belief is Bill would not stay on as HC if he does not have personnel control.

Additionally I don't think Bill should stay on as HC. The deciding point for me is the sheer number of unforced, undisciplined errors/penalties they have. People say hes coaching the same and that may be true but perhaps it's no longer effective?

 

[1960Pats]

LOL

I respect your position on Bill because you make no bones about it...Unlike the mass of passive agressives we have here.

I once tried to start a thread about what we liked and didn't like about Bill. I thought it might have been a good way to discuss his pros and cons in one place. Ian didn't think it was such a good idea.

It isn't Bill personally that I don't like, even though he isn't very likeable in general. I just don't think that HCs are as important as the players and he, for some reason, has been acting like he's having a yard sale of top talent.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I once tried to start a thread about what we liked and didn't like about Bill. I thought it might have been a good way to discuss his pros and cons in one place. Ian didn't think it was such a good idea.

It isn't Bill personally that I don't like, even though he isn't very likeable in general. I just don't think that HCs are as important as the players and he, for some reason, has been acting like he's having a yard sale of top talent.

Yea there is way too much emotion re: Bill/Tom even though that was not your intent but it was going to go in that direction.

I think we can agree players are more important. Great coaches can't win championships without great talent. Just look at the names of great coaches and there are great players right there. Once that great talent departs, so do the wins for that great coach.

However...

Teams can't win consistently without a strong organization, leadership and culture to support the talent. Additionally they need someone who can identify talent and put it in a position to succeed. There have been so many great players who have not one SBs or have won one but should have won more because their organization and/or coach did not make good decisions on and off the field.

Thats the argument for Bill's importance. He's not perfect but he's made way more good decisions than bad ones.

 

[1960Pats]

Where to begin?

Kraft 100% saved this franchise. This site would be the stlouisstallionsfans.com if not for Bob Kraft. Sorry @Ian. Your hatred for the Krafts for not keeping Tom has blinded you on this fact. Gillette was being built long before Tom Brady played a down for NE. If anything, Gillette is the House That Drew Built, certainly not Tom Brady.

Tom Brady did not develop in a vacuum. Coaching had a huge part in his growth, as I have said earlier (beating horse emoji goes here), he did not go from everything he does he must do quicker to GOAT without coaching. I will grant that it was Bill's job to get Brady the information he needed to pass the test and then get out of the way from 2015-2019, but Brady did not get to that point without coaching. Your hatred for Bill blinds you to this fact as well.

Tom was not subservient. That's a ludicrous statement. Tom knew that he was in the best situation for Tom Brady, otherwise he would have left long before 2020. Tom understood the economics of football better than a lot of people on this board, and his home town discounts allowed the team flexibility to keep the run going for an unprecedented 20 years. Twenty. Years. Let's not cry for Tom Brady, the man was paid over $300m in his career.

I am not happy about the current state of the team, and, to quote my favorite coach, it's a player's game. The players are not good enough, starting with the QB. But your absolute rage for Kraft and Belichick has gotta stop, man. They deserve a share of the credit.

Great. Because I'm critical of the owner and HCs moves I should find another team and I'm a raging hater?
I was responding to some dopestick that was telling Pats fans like me to find another team.
Maybe you feel the same way or that I should keep my opinions to myself.
If so then the two of you need a safe space that isn't here... yet.

 

[Love The Drake]

I remember those days of the great Brady/Bledsoe War. I remember having discussions on AOL with Pats fans that I lovingly referred to as Bledsholes. I even worked with one at the time who was upset and thought that Drew could have also won it all in 2001.

I remember thinking, even with little to look at, how much better I thought TB was than DB at so many things. And when he got his chance TB proved it to be true.

Drew had a stronger arm but Brady did the little things better like spreading the ball to the open man quicker release and had a moxie and confidence that didn’t show up on a combine test. As well as safe to say more of a vision and feel for playing QB.
But I still will always love Drew hurt to see him and Milloy with Buff.

 

[1960Pats]

Yea there is way too much emotion re: Bill/Tom even though that was not your intent but it was going to go in that direction.

I think we can agree players are more important. Great coaches can't win championships without great talent. Just look at the names of great coaches and there are great players right there. Once that great talent departs, so do the wins for that great coach.

However...

Teams can't win consistently without a strong organization, leadership and culture to support the talent. Additionally they need someone who can identify talent and put it in a position to succeed. There have been so many great players who have not one SBs or have won one but should have won more because their organization and/or coach did not make good decisions on and off the field.

Thats the argument for Bill's importance. He's not perfect but he's made way more good decisions than bad ones.

Remember when Bill came here? Wasn't there a lot of worry about him? Well that sure worked out and maybe it will again. I trust that Kraft will make the right call for the team. I can only think of one mistake he's ever made.

I guess it will all come down to what B&B want. My actual choice, which will never happen, would be to have Bill stay on as DC and work with his kids on the defense, and then have Bob hire a new GM and OC.

What do you think? Would Bill stay in a reduced role or would he rather move on and stay in full control of another team? I have no clue.

 

[Steve102]

Great. Because I'm critical of the owner and HCs moves I should find another team and I'm a raging hater?
I was responding to some dopestick that was telling Pats fans like me to find another team.
Maybe you feel the same way or that I should keep my opinions to myself.
If so then the two of you need a safe space that isn't here... yet.

Way to over react.

I am not telling you to get a new team. You do you, my man. I am saying that you're so mad at RKK and Bill that you don't think they deserve any credit. The deserve a lot of credit. I am not interested in splitting hairs on how much credit each deserves, like crawhammer wanted us to do. Merely saying that there's no NEP's without Kraft, and there's not 6 Lombardi's without Belichick's input. Tom Brady doesn't become the GOAT without Belichick, just as Michael Jordan doesn't become the GOAT without Dean Smith or Phil Jackson.

Where I sit, they don't win six Lombardi's without all three of them. Brady is clearly the most important, but he does not do it alone.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Remember when Bill came here? Wasn't there a lot of worry about him? Well that sure worked out and maybe it will again. I trust that Kraft will make the right call for the team. I can only think of one mistake he's ever made.

I guess it will all come down to what B&B want. My actual choice, which will never happen, would be to have Bill stay on as DC and work with his kids on the defense, and then have Bob hire a new GM and OC.

I remember vividly I did not want Bill.

I do remember around TC in 2000 liking what the Tuna hold-overs were saying and it was mostly positive in the sense they were saying hes tough, we work hard, etc whereas from the Carroll era there was a lot of complaining and deflecting accountability (like we are kinda hearing now)

What do you think? Would Bill stay in a reduced role or would he rather move on and stay in full control of another team? I have no clue.

Nope. Hes gone. He wants 100% control over his program. Either that or he retires.

I think he wants the 18 wins to be the all time leader but he won't sacrifice what he believes in to get it.

 

[1960Pats]

Drew had a stronger arm but Brady did the little things better like spreading the ball to the open man quicker release and had a moxie and confidence that didn’t show up on a combine test. As well as safe to say more of a vision and feel for playing QB.
But I still will always love Drew hurt to see him and Milloy with Buff.

The best gift that Drew gave us was the way he handled what must have been a very tough time for him. If not for him that locker room could have been split in half in 2001. I doubt there are many, if any, QBs that would have handled that with as much class as Drew did.

One thing about Drew that scared me then was how he didn't seem to feel pressure coming. I don't really know how some QBs can feel it and others can't, but Drew didn't have that skill. He was also a little bit off on his swing passes, which is something small that makes a big difference.