Julius Peppers proponents...a Philadelphia story

[Pats726]

If next year is an uncapped year which looks more likely every day, the pay structure is going to be upset no matter if they trade for Peppers or not because everyone's pay structure is going to be upset with guys like Snyder overpaying for every name out there to get them in.

I agree that an uncapped year will throw a lot of whack...BUT at this point I don't think a team would ever ASSUME that that was going to happen. Yes, make adjustments to that possibility...but certainly do NOT commit to that as the only future. Maybe in 4-5 months or so...after negotiations have headed toward a stalemate then yes, prepare for that closer..but not now.

Besides, i don't understand your beef when I said that if Peppers comes here it will be because he was willing to take less than what he would get elsewhere. There is my proof. So will Wilfork go to the bargaining table and say he wants to be overpaid because Peppers took a below market deal?

If all the proof you have is what he has said...I rest my case. Players say a LOT of different things to get results. I guess you have not looked at his history of not leaving anything on the table after negotiations. Get him signed long term at a reasonable price and THEN that will prove that...and frankly, I would love that IF it happened! But his past has shown otherwise. As to taking things even more hypothetical, let one happen first. I think Vince will want a fair contract and teh Pats are very good at doing that. They will come to an agreement.

Also, you don't seem to grasp Philly's problem either. Their problem is not that they overpaid for Asante. It is that they went to both Sheldon Brown and Lito Sheppard when they had multiple years left in their rookie contracts and said that they would pay them now and discount the fact that they have multiple years left on their deal in the new contract or they can wait three years and cash in then. The players took the immediate gratification. If both players waited until their final year of their contracts to get a new deal, they would have been paid far closer to what Asante got. The Eagles strategy of trying to save a buck long term by locking up their long players long before they can sniff free agency is what biting them in arse, not the Samuel contract (although that was the catalyst to expedite the issue).

Actually...I think you miss the poinbt entirely here. Yes, they did pay these ones earlier, but why was that a problem?? If they had NOT overpaid Asante, would these two have been griping?? Of course not. I agree that the Eagles compounded their mistake with AS by having contracts like this, but without bringing him in, their would not have been a problem. AND you agree that Asante was the reason all this came to a head..so??? You are admitting that?? I am glad you agree. WIthout their mistake with Asante; no problem.

BTW, how do we know Peppers is truly about the money? He might be to stay in Carolina where he clearly doesn't want to be. He might realize that his desire to play for a 3-4 team may require him to take more of an incentive laced deal or one with hefty roster bonuses in later years because he would need to prove himself as a 3-4 OLB. Maybe he just asked for the world in Carolina because he didn't want to stay and it was a better PR move to not come to terms than try to shoot his way out of town

Look at his history. Maybe he would take money like you said...but he also claimed at one point he wished for DL money playing OLB, a position he has not played. Maybe...but...we shall see what happens. Holley also does not think Peppers is the guy to come here and has mentioned that a few times.

 

[Mike the Brit]

If the team is consistent in letting rookie contracts run their course, then most players aren't going to complain - Branch claimed the team had strong-armed him into his rookie deal, which I believe included a five year contract before the CBA put limits on the deals, so he was apparently harboring a resentment and was trying to use his elevated stock to force a new deal. NE is consistent, Wilfork is on his rookie deal and we know he is more critical to the team than Branch in his day. Seymour, with his multiple Pro Bowls and Super Bowls was able to pressure the team into an early contract extension, but he also gave them something they wanted with the way his final year was managed back then. Philly introduced a sour note with their Asante deal. :confused2:

I think that the Hobbs move (and the bad feelings he obviously has towards the organization associated with his contract) is pretty telling. As I said, you have to pick the least worst option, and I'm still not convinced the Patriots' one is it.

 

[supafly]

What exactly are the limits that the CBA put on rookie contracts?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I think that the Hobbs move (and the bad feelings he obviously has towards the organization associated with his contract) is pretty telling. As I said, you have to pick the least worst option, and I'm still not convinced the Patriots' one is it.

The first inkling we've seen of an unhappy Hobbs was the excerpts Reiss had from Hobbs' conversation with the Philly media - given the abuse he takes on this forum any report he had been complaining would have exploded, so he's kept his mouth shut and done his job. A four year starter, a league leader in KO returns, he should be looking to make a big pay day, especially with the money CBs have been pulling down around the league.

The point of this thread was big Free Agent money "can" be very disruptive to a locker room. Philly just traded two fifth round picks for insurance after their locker room started to melt after the Asante deal.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree that an uncapped year will throw a lot of whack...BUT at this point I don't think a team would ever ASSUME that that was going to happen. Yes, make adjustments to that possibility...but certainly do NOT commit to that as the only future. Maybe in 4-5 months or so...after negotiations have headed toward a stalemate then yes, prepare for that closer..but not now.

All teams have to prepare for both a capped and uncapped year. The likelihood of getting a new deal done is growing dimmer considering the NFLPA can't even get a contract done with their new President yet. if they can't get that done, how are they going to renegotiate a CBA?

If all the proof you have is what he has said...I rest my case. Players say a LOT of different things to get results. I guess you have not looked at his history of not leaving anything on the table after negotiations. Get him signed long term at a reasonable price and THEN that will prove that...and frankly, I would love that IF it happened! But his past has shown otherwise. As to taking things even more hypothetical, let one happen first. I think Vince will want a fair contract and teh Pats are very good at doing that. They will come to an agreement.

I don't know where there is much of a case to rest. Either Pepper would take a deal that the Pats were willing to give. It is unlikelty the Pats will break the bank to sign him. In the unlikely case they do get a deal done after the draft, they can't afford to give him a top tier deal anyway. They might be able to free up enough room to give him a good deal, but not a Haynesworth type of deal. Nor would they if they could. So you resting your case on a scenario that is unlikely to happen in New England.

Actually...I think you miss the poinbt entirely here. Yes, they did pay these ones earlier, but why was that a problem?? If they had NOT overpaid Asante, would these two have been griping?? Of course not. I agree that the Eagles compounded their mistake with AS by having contracts like this, but without bringing him in, their would not have been a problem. AND you agree that Asante was the reason all this came to a head..so??? You are admitting that?? I am glad you agree. WIthout their mistake with Asante; no problem.

Actually, I think both Sheppard and Brown would be griping with or without the Asante contract. In fact, Sheppard was griping about his contract the offseason before Samuel was signed. It blew up more after Samuel was signed, but the cracks were already there. Sheppard always thought himself a top tier CB (and you could possibly argue that for a very brief moment). He say deals around the league like Nate Clement's (which actually started his disastifaction with his contract). There are plenty of people around the league griping about their contracts eventhough there is no big deal to compare it to on their team. Pete Kendall shot his way out of town in NY a year before they went free agent crazy. There are about a half dozen players sitting out of minicamp around the league because they are upset about their contract. The Pats had Deion Branch and Seymour hold out of training camps because they weren't happy with their deals.

Look at his history. Maybe he would take money like you said...but he also claimed at one point he wished for DL money playing OLB, a position he has not played. Maybe...but...we shall see what happens. Holley also does not think Peppers is the guy to come here and has mentioned that a few times.

I have never heard Peppers say anything about being paid DL money for playing an OLB. He has rejected Panthers offers that would make him one of the highest paid defensive players in the league, but that may be because he just doesn't want to play in Carolina which may mean he isn't all about the money.