Josh Gordon Stepping Away?

[maineman209]

sorry you're right. i had the 159 targets right but took the catch rate from 2015 mistakenly.

using nfl stats for dropped passes..using pro football reference for targets

i agree that he's not at a ****tier tier, but he's not the same as before in terms of burst. and he has definitely had some key drops.

Burst... whatever. He's 32 and coming off an ACL tear.

My perspective is that he's been slightly more productive on a per-game basis this season than he was in 2016 at age 30 and before the ACL tear - even with the drops. Without the drops he'd be having a career season.

 

[tasmlab]

Isn't dope legal in MA now? I know, league policy.

 

[IllegalContact]

you'd figure the dude could hold out long enough to see what the hell a playoff game is like.........then he went out with gronk 1 nite

 

[Kontradiction]

Anyone who's watched the Patriots for the last month and concluded that run defense doesn't matter probably isn't worth the time.

It would be quick work. And I obviously have time to kill. Look at my embarrassing post count.

 

[Dorito Dink]

I regularly took dumps all over the Chicken Littles last year. See my GDT breakdowns.



Who is being righteous besides you in this thread? People can view the Patriots how they wish. That doesn't exclude them from getting criticized. That's how a message board works.



Please point out where said straw man argument occurred. I'd love to see if you grasp the definition of exactly what that is.



There are PLENTY of people who argue vehemently against whatever flaws the Patriots have. One of them just patted himself on the back for predicting Gordon would fail at the worst possible time on page one or two.



Believing that the Patriots aren't out of it is also believing that the team has a realistic shot of winning the Super Bowl. If you didn't think that, you'd think they were out of it and would say as much.



Then you had an absolutely terrible comprehension of my categorization of front runner or bandwagon fans. Maybe instead of getting immediately triggered/offended and flying off the handle (only to get your head handed to you), try reading the post again next time and checking for proper comprehension.



It's lame because it defeats whatever point you were trying to make here. But it's far from lame and even further from irrelevant. That you're trying to dismiss it as so tells me that you're pretty well aware of the weakness of whatever argument you're attempting to construct. All fan bases have fans like that. Using my experience with Jags fans was just a comparison. The Patriots are no different. We have posters here every single day that turn threads into pissing contests in an attempt to dismiss those that point out the flaws in this squad. We saw this with the following two examples:

• Attempting to point out that Shelton might not be the answer to the run D's problems.
• Attempting to point out that the team didn't do enough to address the WR position.

The posters I'm referring to were even still trying to argue their point even after the results were in on the season. Shelton has now been benched and the team traded for a WR that just smoked/drank/snorted his way out of town due to desperation.



Actually, if your reading comprehension wasn't total garbage, you would see a post from me, directed at you, stating that you're not the kind of fan that I'm talking about. But it was too late by that point because you were already triggered. You're out of your depth here, guy. Next time, calm down and read the post you're responding to before flying off the handle.

Nobody is getting triggered or flying off the handle. Yes, I know how a message board works, no need to make ****head comments when you’re being a hypocrite yourself – you made a comment, I made a comment back, and you got your panties twisted (even whining that Joker liked my post). Relax, it’s a message board.

I’m well aware of the definition of a strawman. Recently you have been misrepresenting the opinions of posters who still have faith in the patriots by claiming they say the team is without flaw when in reality they’ve just said that the patriots aren’t unique in having flaws among the playoff hopeful teams. You are also trying to remove any credibility by claiming that the fans who still share some optimism are simply “bandwagon/fairweather” fans that way it’s easy for you to dismiss any legitimate point they make because they’re biased.

I don’t need to reiterate all the reasons for why I still share some optimism that they can make a run. All of my reasons were legitimate, despite your attempt at discrediting them by using the examples I noted above. You haven’t really disputed any of my points aside from saying the Patriots issue (run defense) is a gaping and fatal flaw. It’s obviously going to be tough to win but you’d be hard-pressed to find a team with great odds right now. That’s all I’ve been saying, and from what I’ve read, all really anybody who remains positive is saying. You just like to argue and cook things up to extremes.

 

[supafly]

The manner suggests two things:

1. They don't have enough talent.

2. They're mentally weak.

One can be fixed with just one good draft. The second one requires a purge or sorts. I suspect we will see the latter this offseason and hope we will see the former.

I don’t think there’s any other choice than to release a good handful of players who are costing too much and providing poor value, and throwing a bunch of darts in the draft with a higher volume of picks.

They have the higher round draft capital and they can free up more money by releasing some of the more obvious choices. I have faith that Bill will right the ship again and that they’ll be better next season.

 

[luuked]

Sucks for Gordon but he always seemed like a timebomb which was my main issue with trading a big pick for him. At the price that he came for it was worth the attempt.

For Josh I wish all the best on his route to get over his issues again.

 

[Froob]

Isn't dope legal in MA now? I know, league policy.

They should at least go NBA policy, “technically” a violation but you have to be busted like five times and even then you probably won’t be suspended unless you’re a scrub.

 

[IllegalContact]

Nobody is getting triggered or flying off the handle. Yes, I know how a message board works, no need to make ****head comments when you’re being a hypocrite yourself – you made a comment, I made a comment back, and you got your panties twisted (even whining that Joker liked my post). Relax, it’s a message board.

I’m well aware of the definition of a strawman. Recently you have been misrepresenting the opinions of posters who still have faith in the patriots by claiming they say the team is without flaw when in reality they’ve just said that the patriots aren’t unique in having flaws among the playoff hopeful teams. You are also trying to remove any credibility by claiming that the fans who still share some optimism are simply “bandwagon/fairweather” fans that way it’s easy for you to dismiss any legitimate point they make because they’re biased.

I don’t need to reiterate all the reasons for why I still share some optimism that they can make a run. All of my reasons were legitimate, despite your attempt at discrediting them by using the examples I noted above. You haven’t really disputed any of my points aside from saying the Patriots issue (run defense) is a gaping and fatal flaw. It’s obviously going to be tough to win but you’d be hard-pressed to find a team with great odds right now. That’s all I’ve been saying, and from what I’ve read, all really anybody who remains positive is saying. You just like to argue and cook things up to extremes.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Sucks for Gordon but he always seemed like a timebomb which was my main issue with trading a big pick for him. At the price that he came for it was worth the attempt.

Agree. The price was a sixth round pick, and they did a 5th/7th swap because the Patriots didn't have a sixth. I think Gordon's production alone during this season made it worth that draft pick. He played at a very high level for a time there, and this team may be 7-6 right now had they not picked up him up.

 

[signbabybrady]

LMAO, this is about as delusional as it gets. Should I even waste my time picking this apart or do you see the denial here already?

Do you really think this team has at any point made a commitment to stop the run? They've shelved the run first DT. And play more snaps out of nickel and dime than 3-4/4-3. So like I said its bad by design sort of how BB ignored Thurman in the SB to be able to better defend the kgunn or as it pertains to now to better defend in a passing league. Obviously in both cases they still want better results against the run.

 

[Steve102]

This is close to the reason I hang on to some optimism. Teams can turn it around unexpectedly (see the 2007 Giants, the 2008 Cardinals, 2010 Packers, etc.), especially this year where no one is really that great and every team has flaws.

The 2007 Giants is a pretty good example, but there is no 2007 Patriots on our remaining schedule for them to get right against. I think they are probably more like the 2005 Patriots. I think they could get by the first round, against a team like Indy or Tennessee. I think they won't get by the AFCCC, either home or away. Stranger things have happened tho. I think they are flawed, old at key positions on offense. We will see how they do.

 

[Dorito Dink]

I'd expect the Pats to start employing some 2 back sets with Rex/White going forward. Also, would be nice for Dorsett to start getting some looks. He's been money when targeted this year but needs to get open. Patterson has also showed some surprisingly decent hands the past two weeks with solid route running. Gronk needs to step up and show consistently that he can play like he did in Miami. In all, a collective effort will be needed.

 

[1960Pats]

Th-tha-that's all folks!

For him personally, I hope he gets the help he needs.

As I have said before, the monster he has been made out to be as a Pothead I find laughable to the point I wonder if I have fallen into a wormhole and come out in some nightmare reality of 1950s America, but thems is the rules of his employer, so he should abide by them.

NFL will "catch-up" someday when they realize the product on the field is better when better players play and that making business decisions based on the moral cartography of someone in Norman OK, Overland Park KS or Asheboro NC simply makes little business sense.

I don't think Goody and the BBC really care about the fans in any of those places. What they like to have is control over the players.

 

[luuked]

Agree. The price was a sixth round pick, and they did a 5th/7th swap because the Patriots didn't have a sixth. I think Gordon's production alone during this season made it worth that draft pick. He played at a very high level for a time there, and this team may be 7-6 right now had they not picked up him up.

To be honest I'd also rather this bomb go off now with the final two regular seasons games in front of us than in January. It sucks but in the end it is what it is.

 

[signbabybrady]

Anyone who's watched the Patriots for the last month and concluded that run defense doesn't matter probably isn't worth the time.

You know, since Belichick obviously traded from the third down to the fifth purely in the hopes that he could motivate Danny Shelton to care about football because he didn't think run defense was important and wasn't worried about it.

Never said it doesn't matter. I said it's by design so I'm not worried about it. If they feel it's important enough to fix they can play more 3-4/4-3 and dress Shelton. Might cost us some passing yards though and I think BB will probably stick with nickel and dime as the base.

 

[maineman209]

Yeah, I'm not sure how "this team isn't very good as currently constructed but they're still my team so I support them" could possibly be construed as fairweather fandom. It's the exact opposite.

Conflating belief that a team can win the Super Bowl with support for that team, and assuming that someone who doesn't think the team can win the SB has implicitly stopped supporting the team, OTOH? That is pretty much the definition of fairweather fandom isn't it?

Andy? Is that you?

 

[Bonzo]

My notes from that week are that the "10 games active" condition applied only to the 7th rounder that the Pats got with Gordon in return for their 5th-rounder, and NOT to the 5th-round pick itself. Even that point became irrelevant a couple days later once the Pats got the Browns to give them the 7th-rounder without any conditions.

IOW, the Pats wouldn't be getting that 5th-rounder back even if Gordon had been active for only one game, and they get the 7th-rounder, regardless.

In my haste to pile on Rapoport, I got it completely wrong.

 

[1960Pats]

Edelman's catch rate and TDs are exceeding what he did in 2016 ... in spite of the "continuous drops".

I really wish folks would check the stats at least once in awhile before making judgments.

Some drops are worse than others. The same is true for penalties.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Dorsett had 256 snaps through the first five games. He's had 77 total snaps in the 9 games since.

He has fresh legs! Thank Flash for keeping him healthy! (sarcasm)