Jimmy G reportedly gets his deal:

[PatsFanSince74]

Why would they need to look at free agency when they have drafted and groomed the best QB to ever play the game and the QB that just got the biggest contract ever???

Also your post makes no sense because if they draft a good one he will likely be looking for that same money in 4 years time. Brady is the rare exception of a guy that takes less.

So, by drafting and grooming Brady and Garoppolo, maybe lightning has already struck twice in the same place for the Patriots?

Also, curious about your second point. Are you suggesting that the Pats would be unable to hold onto any Premium QB because he will just move on for money in four years? If so, what should they do? (Serious question)

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Apparently one thing Jimmie didn't learn from Brady: If you want to win long term, you've got to leave enough money on the table to build the rest of the team.

...or, you go to a team with young talent and ~$115 million in Cap Room. They could front load $120 million of his deal across the first three seasons and still leave an escalating $75 million per year for other players.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

That's pretty personal. FYI. hahaha

in my experience, more often than not, "nothing personal" means "this is really personal."

 

[jimnance]

That's pretty personal. FYI. hahaha

Not usually my style Tony, but sometimes enough is enough.

 

[Ivan]

...or, you go to a team with young talent and ~$115 million in Cap Room. They could front load $120 million of his deal across the first three seasons and still leave an escalating $75 million per year for other players.

Agree completely. If he’s successful I think you will see Garrapolo restructure when money starts getting tight, so they can keep building a contender. I do think he saw the benefit that came from Brady doing this, and he’ll do the same.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

That's pretty personal. FYI. hahaha

Yeahhhhh I get tired of the "I coulda done it better" crowd too, but I'm of two minds on this one. This was BB waiting until value was far lower than peak.

I think the Wickershamization of Pats Nation has begun. What if it's true?

Then there are machinations that knock vertical leadership out of alignment.

Kraft, Brady, and Belichick are therefore knocking around like billiard balls within the Holy Trinity of Foxborough.

Naturally in the part of the world that we see, the results are chaotic. A blue-chip quarterback is shipped out for a 2nd. A cornerback is benched with zero warning. A super bowl... ah say, ah say a super bowl son... is lost!

So like this guy you're responding to, yes I'm tired of seeing this seeming cavalcade of puzzling data triggering people like freshmen in a liberal arts college.

I must concoct a theory that explains it all. Wickersham's world helps with just about anything puzzling; it's like the three body problem in physics. Just plug in the mechanism and trace a line from the position of the three bodies in battle to the outcome at hand (p.s., the "Jimmy G for a 2nd" post he responded to did not invoke this mechanism. But note that the theorized mechanism works for that situation, and zillions of others.)

If Bill is salty, every wrong decision can either be a conscious, subconscious, or semiconscious FU to other members of the triad. It can also be his arrogant statement to the league that "Yeah I did that," hoping for it to work and not giving a damn if it doesn't.

Now let's match what we see to the BB we've always known.

He always does stuff that's a head scratcher if it doesn't work and doesn't get wrapped around the axle if it doesn't. Milloy is a classic example. He always "reaches" in the draft. He always calls plays that are either boneheaded or brilliant.

Right now I feel a strong pull toward the "Squabbling Trinity" theory, and who knows, maybe that's real. Again, I continue to await the tell-all.

I don't like the repetition of the obvious either - e.g. "wahhhhh we only got a 2nd for Jimmy G." I mean, you're looking at a great half a season and anointing him the second coming of TFB. (Just like we looked at him after 6 quarters of football.) He's been evaluated by upside only for a very long time. Give him a full season at the helm and see if SF is a SB winner. That'll tell you whether he's the second coming of TFB.

And if he is? He'll be the Great One Who Got Away. Live with it.

They had to make a call, and they made a call based on a guy who was good for 3 TD and 500 yards on the biggest stage. I'm pretty sure we don't have the option of saying "Sigh, you made the wrong call, Brady sucks now." Get there again, and I have no doubt he does it again, and puts the team on his back as needed - until the biological mechanism simply gives out.

What's the second-best complaint? Right, we didn't get good draft value for him.

This is a crushing revelation, because the Patriots have so often relied on blue-chip high draft picks to build the team [/irony]

BB made a call based on what he knew at the time he made the call. He held the insurance policy too long to sell it.

Hindsight leads to a methodical mental error, the removal of time from the equation.

Now maybe what BB really wanted to do was pull the trigger at the "right" time, ship Brady out and go into battle with Jimmy G, but he was stopped by the Great Kraft-Brady Conspiracy.

That would have the same outcome as a considered decision to take the same non-action when Jimmy G's value was greatest.

Then maybe Bill B shipped out Jimmy G at the last minute to get something of value, forced once again by the Great Kraft-Brady Conspiracy -- having lost the Jimmy G battle for good.

And maybe the pressure I feel in my nether regions at present is not the need for a vigorous morning constitutional, but the need for monkeys to fly out of my colon. Who knows.

What we do know is that BB made the call. That's it.

The rest of it is theory, hypothesis, and gossip.

So yeah I get irritated when people say we "woulda shoulda coulda" got better than a 2nd in the deal. Pretty much chump change by comparison to the big question. I would not put it past the cold heartless BB and co. to put Jimmy G. in a position they thought/knew he could live with (as opposed to dealing him to, for example, Cleveland.)

Of course, I don't get personal about it... I just think there's a narrative that's seeped in about a soap opera that we don't really know is happening, and it underlies a whole new level of "I have a right to question this team."

Also we didn't win the Super Bowl.

So at times like this, that makes me the "observer" type of fan rather than the "I know what explains that and I don't like it" kind of fan. I just accept that there are different kinds of fans, just like I accept that there are unknowns in football.

Morning rant over, the monkeys want out

 

[Soliel]

Yeahhhhh I get tired of the "I coulda done it better" crowd too, but I'm of two minds on this one. This was BB waiting until value was far lower than peak.

I think the Wickershamization of Pats Nation has begun. What if it's true?

Then there are machinations that knock vertical leadership out of alignment.

Kraft, Brady, and Belichick are therefore knocking around like billiard balls within the Holy Trinity of Foxborough.

Naturally in the part of the world that we see, the results are chaotic. A blue-chip quarterback is shipped out for a 2nd. A cornerback is benched with zero warning. A super bowl... ah say, ah say a super bowl son... is lost!

So like this guy you're responding to, yes I'm tired of seeing this seeming cavalcade of puzzling data triggering people like freshmen in a liberal arts college.

I must concoct a theory that explains it all. Wickersham's world helps with just about anything puzzling; it's like the three body problem in physics. Just plug in the mechanism and trace a line from the position of the three bodies in battle to the outcome at hand (p.s., the "Jimmy G for a 2nd" post he responded to did not invoke this mechanism. But note that the theorized mechanism works for that situation, and zillions of others.)

If Bill is salty, every wrong decision can either be a conscious, subconscious, or semiconscious FU to other members of the triad. It can also be his arrogant statement to the league that "Yeah I did that," hoping for it to work and not giving a damn if it doesn't.

Now let's match what we see to the BB we've always known.

He always does stuff that's a head scratcher if it doesn't work and doesn't get wrapped around the axle if it doesn't. Milloy is a classic example. He always "reaches" in the draft. He always calls plays that are either boneheaded or brilliant.

Right now I feel a strong pull toward the "Squabbling Trinity" theory, and who knows, maybe that's real. Again, I continue to await the tell-all.

I don't like the repetition of the obvious either - e.g. "wahhhhh we only got a 2nd for Jimmy G." I mean, you're looking at a great half a season and anointing him the second coming of TFB. (Just like we looked at him after 6 quarters of football.) He's been evaluated by upside only for a very long time. Give him a full season at the helm and see if SF is a SB winner. That'll tell you whether he's the second coming of TFB.

And if he is? He'll be the Great One Who Got Away. Live with it.

They had to make a call, and they made a call based on a guy who was good for 3 TD and 500 yards on the biggest stage. I'm pretty sure we don't have the option of saying "Sigh, you made the wrong call, Brady sucks now." Get there again, and I have no doubt he does it again, and puts the team on his back as needed - until the biological mechanism simply gives out.

What's the second-best complaint? Right, we didn't get good draft value for him.

This is a crushing revelation, because the Patriots have so often relied on blue-chip high draft picks to build the team [/irony]

BB made a call based on what he knew at the time he made the call. He held the insurance policy too long to sell it.

Hindsight leads to a methodical mental error, the removal of time from the equation.

Now maybe what BB really wanted to do was pull the trigger at the "right" time, ship Brady out and go into battle with Jimmy G, but he was stopped by the Great Kraft-Brady Conspiracy.

That would have the same outcome as a considered decision to take the same non-action when Jimmy G's value was greatest.

Then maybe Bill B shipped out Jimmy G at the last minute to get something of value, forced once again by the Great Kraft-Brady Conspiracy -- having lost the Jimmy G battle for good.

And maybe the pressure I feel in my nether regions at present is not the need for a vigorous morning constitutional, but the need for monkeys to fly out of my colon. Who knows.

What we do know is that BB made the call. That's it.

The rest of it is theory, hypothesis, and gossip.

So yeah I get irritated when people say we "woulda shoulda coulda" got better than a 2nd in the deal. Pretty much chump change by comparison to the big question. I would not put it past the cold heartless BB and co. to put Jimmy G. in a position they thought/knew he could live with (as opposed to dealing him to, for example, Cleveland.)

Of course, I don't get personal about it... I just think there's a narrative that's seeped in about a soap opera that we don't really know is happening, and it underlies a whole new level of "I have a right to question this team."

Also we didn't win the Super Bowl.

So at times like this, that makes me the "observer" type of fan rather than the "I know what explains that and I don't like it" kind of fan. I just accept that there are different kinds of fans, just like I accept that there are unknowns in football.

Morning rant over, the monkeys want out

Interesting thoughts. Been a wierd year

 

[Triumph]

Aaron Rodgers took a team that was 12-4 and went 6-10
JG took a team that was 2-14(then 1-10) and went 5-0 with half a playbook(also 2-0 with Pats)



JG actually looks better than Aaron Rodgers

There was no film on Jimmy to break down his tendencies. There is more now than what they had, but eventually some team is is going to figure out a defensive strategy where Jimmy struggles.

SD coach Marty Schottenheimer figure out in the 2002 pre season that Brady was less effective if you made him move from his spot. Brady struggled in 2002 and NE missed the playoffs. Brady over came it though. Years 2 and 3 is where you know what kind of QB youve got. Lots of players burst onto the scene only to crap the bed in later seasons.

Stoopid contract by SF. Just because youve got the cap space that doesnt justify being taken to the cleaners. Jimmy and his agent fleeced the 9ers good.

 

[Triumph]

Andy Luck is best thing since sliced bread lets pay him a kings ransom.

Brock Arsewieler is a sensation get the check book quick.

***clowns

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Jimmy and his agent fleeced the 9ers good.

Don Yee, right? I guess he's happy he finally got a taste of a SERIOUS big-azz blockbuster contract

Gotta feed your family ya know, and you can't keep everybody alive on avocado and kale

 

[PatriotSpy]

Yeahhhhh I get tired of the "I coulda done it better" crowd too, but I'm of two minds on this one. This was BB waiting until value was far lower than peak.

I think the Wickershamization of Pats Nation has begun. What if it's true?

Then there are machinations that knock vertical leadership out of alignment.

Kraft, Brady, and Belichick are therefore knocking around like billiard balls within the Holy Trinity of Foxborough.

Naturally in the part of the world that we see, the results are chaotic. A blue-chip quarterback is shipped out for a 2nd. A cornerback is benched with zero warning. A super bowl... ah say, ah say a super bowl son... is lost!

So like this guy you're responding to, yes I'm tired of seeing this seeming cavalcade of puzzling data triggering people like freshmen in a liberal arts college.

I must concoct a theory that explains it all. Wickersham's world helps with just about anything puzzling; it's like the three body problem in physics. Just plug in the mechanism and trace a line from the position of the three bodies in battle to the outcome at hand (p.s., the "Jimmy G for a 2nd" post he responded to did not invoke this mechanism. But note that the theorized mechanism works for that situation, and zillions of others.)

If Bill is salty, every wrong decision can either be a conscious, subconscious, or semiconscious FU to other members of the triad. It can also be his arrogant statement to the league that "Yeah I did that," hoping for it to work and not giving a damn if it doesn't.

Now let's match what we see to the BB we've always known.

He always does stuff that's a head scratcher if it doesn't work and doesn't get wrapped around the axle if it doesn't. Milloy is a classic example. He always "reaches" in the draft. He always calls plays that are either boneheaded or brilliant.

Right now I feel a strong pull toward the "Squabbling Trinity" theory, and who knows, maybe that's real. Again, I continue to await the tell-all.

I don't like the repetition of the obvious either - e.g. "wahhhhh we only got a 2nd for Jimmy G." I mean, you're looking at a great half a season and anointing him the second coming of TFB. (Just like we looked at him after 6 quarters of football.) He's been evaluated by upside only for a very long time. Give him a full season at the helm and see if SF is a SB winner. That'll tell you whether he's the second coming of TFB.

And if he is? He'll be the Great One Who Got Away. Live with it.

They had to make a call, and they made a call based on a guy who was good for 3 TD and 500 yards on the biggest stage. I'm pretty sure we don't have the option of saying "Sigh, you made the wrong call, Brady sucks now." Get there again, and I have no doubt he does it again, and puts the team on his back as needed - until the biological mechanism simply gives out.

What's the second-best complaint? Right, we didn't get good draft value for him.

This is a crushing revelation, because the Patriots have so often relied on blue-chip high draft picks to build the team [/irony]

BB made a call based on what he knew at the time he made the call. He held the insurance policy too long to sell it.

Hindsight leads to a methodical mental error, the removal of time from the equation.

Now maybe what BB really wanted to do was pull the trigger at the "right" time, ship Brady out and go into battle with Jimmy G, but he was stopped by the Great Kraft-Brady Conspiracy.

That would have the same outcome as a considered decision to take the same non-action when Jimmy G's value was greatest.

Then maybe Bill B shipped out Jimmy G at the last minute to get something of value, forced once again by the Great Kraft-Brady Conspiracy -- having lost the Jimmy G battle for good.

And maybe the pressure I feel in my nether regions at present is not the need for a vigorous morning constitutional, but the need for monkeys to fly out of my colon. Who knows.

What we do know is that BB made the call. That's it.

The rest of it is theory, hypothesis, and gossip.

So yeah I get irritated when people say we "woulda shoulda coulda" got better than a 2nd in the deal. Pretty much chump change by comparison to the big question. I would not put it past the cold heartless BB and co. to put Jimmy G. in a position they thought/knew he could live with (as opposed to dealing him to, for example, Cleveland.)

Of course, I don't get personal about it... I just think there's a narrative that's seeped in about a soap opera that we don't really know is happening, and it underlies a whole new level of "I have a right to question this team."

Also we didn't win the Super Bowl.

So at times like this, that makes me the "observer" type of fan rather than the "I know what explains that and I don't like it" kind of fan. I just accept that there are different kinds of fans, just like I accept that there are unknowns in football.

Morning rant over, the monkeys want out

Why does he have to get measured against Tom Brady? If he's the next Aaron Rodgers or Steve Young i'm pissed. He looks like the real deal. Gets the ball out quick, deadly accurate and he's young. Now we're scrambling to find the next quarterback. There's tons of teams still looking after many years.

 

[sieglo]

Wonder how Kaepernick feels about this.

 

[PatriotSpy]

There was no film on Jimmy to break down his tendencies. There is more now than what they had, but eventually some team is is going to figure out a defensive strategy where Jimmy struggles.

SD coach Marty Schottenheimer figure out in the 2002 pre season that Brady was less effective if you made him move from his spot. Brady struggled in 2002 and NE missed the playoffs. Brady over came it though. Years 2 and 3 is where you know what kind of QB youve got. Lots of players burst onto the scene only to crap the bed in later seasons.

Stoopid contract by SF. Just because youve got the cap space that doesnt justify being taken to the cleaners. Jimmy and his agent fleeced the 9ers good.

Sometimes, you know, you just have to go with what your eyes tell ya. Otherwise, how can you draft a qb in the 1rst rd without paying him a hefty contract and low and behold, there's no NFL film on him? The only people who get taken to the cleaners are teams that give guys like Osweiler and Trubisky big money. Those guys obviously stink.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

 

[TinhWoodhead]

u forgot 1 mo

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Why does he have to get measured against Tom Brady? If he's the next Aaron Rodgers or Steve Young i'm pissed. He looks like the real deal. Gets the ball out quick, deadly accurate and he's young. Now we're scrambling to find the next quarterback. There's tons of teams still looking after many years.

If you leave aside the chump-change question of whether we get more draft value for him, the choice was between Peak Brady and Garoppolo upside.

If Jimmy G upside puts him in Rodgers or Brees territory you can still complain, I suppose. OTOH, this season was another serious shot at a ring. TFB played like a monster in the losing effort, you might remember. We have no idea what outcome we would achieve with JG. Brady did provide leadership/effort that would get the job done if the Iggles put up fewer than 34. That didn't happen. JG? We don't know.

Knowns vs. unknowns. TFB can decline at any moment, at any rate of decline; however, the decline was not evident.

JG can reach his natural ceiling over a stellar, less stellar, or for whatever reason mediocre or truncated NFL career.

Now you make the call: Pull the trigger and keep Jimmy G, or pull the trigger and let Jimmy G go?

Anybody can look at the amount of insurance they've bought over the years and say "But I never made a claim."

It's not exactly a compelling reason not to buy insurance.

That's what the Pats did - whichever matrix of opinions went into it.

We could not afford both. You can only be pissed at something you can control. The "we could just bust through the cap by millions of dollars on one player" option was not on the table; the remainder of the roster are not low draft-pick rookies.

We could shuffle the crap out of everybody and salvage something out of the two-headed monster model, but... just no.

So: You keep JG or you keep Brady. Peak Brady. Remember how tall that mountain is for other QBs. How many championships have the other QBs you noted won, including conference championships?

You could very easily eliminate this year's 50/50 SB shot (2018 SB, after 2017 season) for the next 15 years when you pull that trigger. Where's your downside risk protection for that?

On the Brady end of the spectrum we have a risk that's absolutely certain to happen, but we don't know when.

How can you be "pissed" to let go of JG? By the same token the opposite calculation would not leave me "pissed." They just present different landscapes of probability.

But the result to date is that Brady is the most exceptional player - all shades of meaning intended - ever to lace them up.

He's driven, he's cap-friendly, and he never seems to stop being hungry. Oh yeah, and he's reallllly good at this.

Preserving that as long as it lasts looks a lot like a rational strategy.

He could retire tomorrow, of course. JG could have the season-ending injury in training camp.

It's all probabilities.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

There was no film on Jimmy to break down his tendencies. There is more now than what they had, but eventually some team is is going to figure out a defensive strategy where Jimmy struggles.

...

Stoopid contract by SF. Just because youve got the cap space that doesnt justify being taken to the cleaners. Jimmy and his agent fleeced the 9ers good.

If he's as good as they hope, he'll adapt. In any event, he will likely have been better than any reasonable, available alternative.

I don't think anybody fleeced or got fleeced here. Somebody was going to pay Garoppolo. The niners made sure it was them. Did they leave some money on the table? Maybe, but they decided that was a risk they were willing to take. Business decision. Only time will tell whether it was a good one or a bad one.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Yes, but why not "cap" the cap, and keep the revenues? I get that the teams are in competition with each other, but they're also parts of a single corporate entity which has no peers in market. McDonald's franchisees are also in competition with each other, but that doesn't stop the governing corporation from deciding the minimum and maximum cost for the product.

Because the NFLPA also sits at the table and has a say in how much of the Revenue generated by its members is made available for players. The owners are just happy that there is some limit on that number.

The level of the Salary Cap is also a "variable" cost that is adjusted according to the revenues from TV contracts and other sources. As long as the revenue number keeps going up, the cap will keep going up; if it stagnates or declines, the cap will remain level or even be cut. The lost revenue from a single week of NFLPA work stoppage in the regular season would be far greater than any reasonable negotiated cap increase.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

If you leave aside the chump-change question of whether we get more draft value for him, the choice was between Peak Brady and Garoppolo upside.

If Jimmy G upside puts him in Rodgers or Brees territory you can still complain, I suppose. OTOH, this season was another serious shot at a ring. TFB played like a monster in the losing effort, you might remember. We have no idea what outcome we would achieve with JG. Brady did provide leadership/effort that would get the job done if the Iggles put up fewer than 34. That didn't happen. JG? We don't know.

Knowns vs. unknowns. TFB can decline at any moment, at any rate of decline; however, the decline was not evident.

JG can reach his natural ceiling over a stellar, less stellar, or for whatever reason mediocre or truncated NFL career.

Now you make the call: Pull the trigger and keep Jimmy G, or pull the trigger and let Jimmy G go?

Anybody can look at the amount of insurance they've bought over the years and say "But I never made a claim."

It's not exactly a compelling reason not to buy insurance.

That's what the Pats did - whichever matrix of opinions went into it.

We could not afford both. You can only be pissed at something you can control. The "we could just bust through the cap by millions of dollars on one player" option was not on the table; the remainder of the roster are not low draft-pick rookies.

We could shuffle the crap out of everybody and salvage something out of the two-headed monster model, but... just no.

So: You keep JG or you keep Brady. Peak Brady. Remember how tall that mountain is for other QBs. How many championships have the other QBs you noted won, including conference championships?

You could very easily eliminate this year's 50/50 SB shot (2018 SB, after 2017 season) for the next 15 years when you pull that trigger. Where's your downside risk protection for that?

On the Brady end of the spectrum we have a risk that's absolutely certain to happen, but we don't know when.

How can you be "pissed" to let go of JG? By the same token the opposite calculation would not leave me "pissed." They just present different landscapes of probability.

But the result to date is that Brady is the most exceptional player - all shades of meaning intended - ever to lace them up.

He's driven, he's cap-friendly, and he never seems to stop being hungry. Oh yeah, and he's reallllly good at this.

Preserving that as long as it lasts looks a lot like a rational strategy.

He could retire tomorrow, of course. JG could have the season-ending injury in training camp.

It's all probabilities.

That's a helpful analysis and I'm sure I will give it the thorough reading it deserves...

But, to be honest, the thing that bothered me most about the Garoppolo trade was that I had just figured out how to spell his name without looking it up, "one R, two P's, one L." It took me a couple of years to come up with that.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

There was no film on Jimmy to break down his tendencies. There is more now than what they had, but eventually some team is is going to figure out a defensive strategy where Jimmy struggles.

It's going to be really hard. Garoppolo came into the league a significantly better passer than Brady did. He's already reached the point where opponents can see where he's going with the ball and still can't stop him from completing passes. The only significant weakness anyone's seen is that he doesn't set his feet properly for deep passes.