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It Looks Like No Long term Deal between Pats and Welker

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Bears and Ravens managed to get deals done with Forte and Rice, going down to the wire. Patriots will not get a deal done with Welker per numerous sources.

Oh well...

Maybe I am jaded, but I think Route 1 really didn't want to make a long term deal. Just a guess, but I would say they're happy going year to year with an undersized slot in his mid 30's, even given the production. I'd really like to be a fly on the wall in Foxboro.
 
No details out on Forte's deal beyond it's 4 years and according to Jim Trotter of SI just over $18M guaranteed.
 
Pathetic. I can't remember the last time I was this disgusted with the Patriots. Hopefully Welker will find a team and fanbase that respects and appreciates his efforts after this season. Really disgusting.
 
I honestly don't care, Welker doesn't produce in the playoffs. Biggest game of their careers and who steps up when Gronk was hurt? Hernandez not welker. Welker's production will be replaced by hernandez + ebert/edelman. And don't start with saying edelman can't replace Wes he's already tallied similar games to Wes in his few opportunities. Give the kid reps he'll produce 70% of Welker.

Plus a slot receiver has little value when you already have 2 tight ends running in the middle, just makes this team easier to defend. Rather spend that 10 million on a defender in free agency or tying up chung and vollmer.
 
Maybe I am jaded, but I think Route 1 really didn't want to make a long term deal. Just a guess, but I would say they're happy going year to year with an undersized slot in his mid 30's, even given the production. I'd really like to be a fly on the wall in Foxboro.

They won't be so happy if he puts up nearly similar numbers in 2012 that force them to either tag him at 120% or have to start covering him again. And they'll be even unhappier if he puts up close to 80% of that for someone else in 2014.

I can't help but feel there is something else amiss, but for the life of me short of Jonathan having a fanboy hair across over the dropped pass or Bill knowing something seriously troublesome about his concussion history that the league doesn't know, I can't fathom what it could be... Not at 31 and with his track record.
 
They won't be so happy if he puts up nearly similar numbers in 2012 that force them to either tag him at 120% or have to start covering him again. And they'll be even unhappier if he puts up close to 80% of that for someone else in 2014.

I can't help but feel there is something else amiss, but for the life of me short of Jonathan having a fanboy hair across over the dropped pass or Bill knowing something seriously troublesome about his concussion history that the league doesn't know, I can't fathom what it could be... Not at 31 and with his track record.

I 100% agree. it just doesn't make any sense. there must be something that doesn't show on the injury reports that's keep them from making a three year deal.
 
They won't be so happy if he puts up nearly similar numbers in 2012 that force them to either tag him at 120% or have to start covering him again. And they'll be even unhappier if he puts up close to 80% of that for someone else in 2014.

I can't help but feel there is something else amiss, but for the life of me short of Jonathan having a fanboy hair across over the dropped pass or Bill knowing something seriously troublesome about his concussion history that the league doesn't know, I can't fathom what it could be... Not at 31 and with his track record.

Couldn't agree more. I honestly don't think I have ever been more disgusted with them.
 
I honestly don't care, Welker doesn't produce in the playoffs. Biggest game of their careers and who steps up when Gronk was hurt? Hernandez not welker. Welker's production will be replaced by hernandez + ebert/edelman. And don't start with saying edelman can't replace Wes he's already tallied similar games to Wes in his few opportunities. Give the kid reps he'll produce 70% of Welker.

Plus a slot receiver has little value when you already have 2 tight ends running in the middle, just makes this team easier to defend. Rather spend that 10 million on a defender in free agency or tying up chung and vollmer.

Gronk and Hernandez have been with the team for two seasons. Even coming off his ACL surgery, Welker has more than 200 catches in that time. Saying that's of little value is just absurd.
 
I honestly don't care, Welker doesn't produce in the playoffs. Biggest game of their careers and who steps up when Gronk was hurt? Hernandez not welker. Welker's production will be replaced by hernandez + ebert/edelman. And don't start with saying edelman can't replace Wes he's already tallied similar games to Wes in his few opportunities. Give the kid reps he'll produce 70% of Welker.

Plus a slot receiver has little value when you already have 2 tight ends running in the middle, just makes this team easier to defend. Rather spend that 10 million on a defender in free agency or tying up chung and vollmer.

Yeah, they should replace Brady with Hoyer while they are at it.

We may well have the dumbest fans in the league.
 
Are you implying that WW will still get open when hes 36 when pretty much every WR who ever played is either hanging on by a thread or out of the league? There is a ton of data that shows WRs starting to show their age at 32 years old. 33 even moreso.

Here's what I'm implying...

1. Welker's skill set dictates that the only thing that might slow down is his Shiftyness in the open field. Even *if* that happens, as there are no signs that it will anytime soon, in the next three years, the other intangibles that make Welker such a great player will still make him an ultra valuable member of this unit, ala Branch.

2. There is no exact science to determining when a WR will slow down and attempting to point to past receivers to make an argument that Welker isnt worth an extension because other guys did further nullifies any argument that you could possibly make.

3. Welker is coming off of a career year and has shown absolutely no sign whatsoever of a slow down in shiftiness.

Proehl was an exception rather than a rule. To say that guys like Pat Tilley or Derrick Mason wern't on the same page as Neil Lomax or McNair is rubbish.

You'll notice that I didn't infer that. What I did infer that Welker's connection with Brady based on the system that both operate in is of great importance. The option routes in mid-play that have to be understood and recognized, both by the QB and the receiver, are both one of the greatest gifts and the greatest curses of the Ehrhardt-Perkins system. It's the reason why Branch can still get open in spite of multiple knee surgeries and it's also the reason why more talented guys like Chad Johnson can come in and fall flat on his face.

Welker has that relationship with Brady. Like Branch, all he has to do is look at Brady and know where to go. Coupled with the fact that he's the finest slot receiver in the league and showed that even prior to joining the Pats, it would seem that resigning him would be a no brainier.

We'll disagree here, Kontra. I'd contend In 3 years if Gronk's stats go down it'll likely be due to a limiting injuries, triple teams and a decline in Brady's ability.

This statement alone should raise another red flag for you. Gronk is one of two of Brady's safety valves. The other is Welker. Take a guy like Welker away and not only do you make Brady's life needlessly harder, but you also do the same to Gronk.

If WW's #s go down it'll be him slowing down because he can't bounce back from injury as well as he could when he was 28 or he is just slowing down.

Again, you're tanking your own argument. Welker has already bounced back from a hideous knee injury. He did so to have a career year and play a bigger part than anybody on the offense in helping Brady accomplish the same. The minute that this team stops paying its players what they damn well earned based on some fear mongering phantom injury that said player could occur is the minute that this franchise fails.

So far, my arguments are substantiated. They are fact based. Your arguments are based on hypothetical situations which have not occurred and may never occur. At this time, you should step back and look at the differences, Robert.
 
Yeah, they should replace Brady with Hoyer while they are at it.

We may well have the dumbest fans in the league.

We just have a lot of them, and the dumb ones are especially loud.

It's only the dumb ones who think we will just plug somebody in there and do what WW did, or somehow do better in postseason.
 
I honestly don't care, Welker doesn't produce in the playoffs. Biggest game of their careers and who steps up when Gronk was hurt? Hernandez not welker. Welker's production will be replaced by hernandez + ebert/edelman. And don't start with saying edelman can't replace Wes he's already tallied similar games to Wes in his few opportunities. Give the kid reps he'll produce 70% of Welker.

Plus a slot receiver has little value when you already have 2 tight ends running in the middle, just makes this team easier to defend. Rather spend that 10 million on a defender in free agency or tying up chung and vollmer.

That would be great...if only it were true. Edleman's a FA next season, and he's not in Welker's class as a receiver. Who knows what Ebert will amount to - would be the first draft pick in a long time to develop into a starter in two years or at all.

Wes Welker Playoffs Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Aaron Hernandez Playoffs Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com
 
Gronk and Hernandez have been with the team for two seasons. Even coming off his ACL surgery, Welker has more than 200 catches in that time. Saying that's of little value is just absurd.

That's great has it won them anything in the playoffs or has he ever had a memorable playoff game for this team? Hmm no. And no Hoyer is clearly no where near Brady's level and has never shown that he can produce 80% of what Brady can. On the other hand Edelman has shown he can produce welker's stats almost identically in his two opportunies where he was a featured receiver. Cleary I'm dumb oh wait the front office must feel the same way otherwise they would have extended him considering they're under the cap, extending him would free up more space, and OH they have about 15 million + of dead money coming off the books next year meaning there in a situation where they could easily extend him if they wanted.
 
That's great has it won them anything in the playoffs or has he ever had a memorable playoff game for this team? Hmm no. And no Hoyer is clearly no where near Brady's level and has never shown that he can produce 80% of what Brady can. On the other hand Edelman has shown he can produce welker's stats almost identically in his two opportunies where he was a featured receiver. Cleary I'm dumb oh wait the front office must feel the same way otherwise they would have extended him considering they're under the cap, extending him would free up more space, and OH they have about 15 million + of dead money coming off the books next year meaning there in a situation where they could easily extend him if they wanted.

Given that the Patriots got to the Super Bowl last season and in 2007, I'd say it pretty clearly has won them something in the playoffs. Also, he did have an 11 catch game against the Giants in 2007. And the Edelman stuff is laughable. If Edelman were equal to Welker, Welker wouldn't have been franchised.

As for the "Cleary I'm dumb oh wait the front office must feel the same way", there's really no way for me to answer that because of board rules. I will instead note, once again, that the Patriots did franchise Welker, even with the great and powerful Edelman on the roster.
 
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Andrew Brandt?@adbrandt

Am told guarantee for Rice is $24 million. About thee running back franchise tags.
]

Total deal $35M with escalators to $40M after the first season.
 
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Given that the Patriots got to the Super Bowl last season and in 2007, I'd say it pretty clearly has won them something in the playoffs. And the Edelman stuff is laughable. If Edelman were equal to Welker, Welker wouldn't have been franchised.

Except he has cracked 100 yards in 1 playoff game with the Pats lol, Welker isn't the reason they win or lose anything in the playoffs (except the Super Bowl DOH!) and that's exactly why he shouldn't get an extension if he wants Fitzgerald/Calvin money which Schefter reported. Calvin Johnson in 1 career playoff game has half of Welker's TOTAL yards and the same number of TOTAL TOUCHDOWNS.

He's a slot receiver and that's it he can get the top deal for a slot receiver since he's the best in the game (IE a little more than Devon Bess). I didn't say Edelman was equal to Welker. I said given all of Welker's snaps in practice and during games he'd amass about 70% of Welker's production. No one on this team should be making over 10 million on offense besides Brady he's what makes the team go. I'm sorry that I don't care about leading the league in receptions and yards when it doesn't count.

The time where you want a Welker type is over for this offense, he had a 10 million dollar role when we had no tight ends operating the middle and the best deep threat of all time on the perimeter. Since the emergence of the two tight end offense we don't need him. This offense would be so much more dangerous if you replaced Welker with Vincent Jackson who could have been had for the same price as what Welker wants.
 
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Given that the Patriots got to the Super Bowl last season and in 2007, I'd say it pretty clearly has won them something in the playoffs. And the Edelman stuff is laughable. If Edelman were equal to Welker, Welker wouldn't have been franchised.

As for the "Cleary I'm dumb oh wait the front office must feel the same way", there's really no way for me to answer that because of board rules. I will instead note, once again, that the Patriots did franchise Welker, even with the great and powerful Edelman on the roster.

I hear Michael Holley is stuck fielding lots of calls about the great and powerful Edleman on WEEI at the moment...LOL

Maybe they can tag him next season since he's an UDFA. More likely they'll try and extend him for a couple of years for peanuts though and hope he's really more than a STer and backup slot receiver/db. And they might want to teach him to place kick in a pinch. I'm sure he could pick it up, after all many here assume he's the secret emergeny/wildcat QB here too. Belichick's swiss army knife.
 
Except he has cracked 100 yards in 1 playoff game with the Pats lol, Welker isn't the reason they win or lose anything in the playoffs (except the Super Bowl DOH!) and that's exactly why he shouldn't get an extension if he wants Fitzgerald/Calvin money which Schefter reported. Calvin Johnson in 1 career playoff game has half of Welker's TOTAL yards and the same number of TOTAL TOUCHDOWNS.

He's a slot receiver and that's it he can get the top deal for a slot receiver since he's the best in the game (IE a little more than Devon Bess). I didn't say Edelman was equal to Welker. I said given all of Welker's snaps in practice and during games he'd amass about 70% of Welker's production. No one on this team should be making over 10 million on offense besides Brady he's what makes the team go. I'm sorry that I don't care about leading the league in receptions and yards when it doesn't count.

This post is one of the more epic failures I've seen on this board of late, so I have very little response. I will say that Tom Brady disagrees with you, tremendously, if that counts for anything.

If you want to talk about offensive execution in the seven playoff games Welker has been in as a Patriot, you have to take into consideration level of opposition and the amount of attention Welker is drawing from these opponents. All I know is I remember Welker being awfully important on the SB42 drive to take the lead, which for all intents and purposes should've ended the game right then and there. If David Tyree doesn't snare a ball of his helmet, Welker's a Boston legend. So why should we let David Tyree impact our opinion of Wes Welker?
 
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Except he has cracked 100 yards in 1 playoff game with the Pats lol, Welker isn't the reason they win or lose anything in the playoffs (except the Super Bowl DOH!) and that's exactly why he shouldn't get an extension if he wants Fitzgerald/Calvin money which Schefter reported. Calvin Johnson in 1 career playoff game has half of Welker's TOTAL yards and the same number of TOTAL TOUCHDOWNS.

He's a slot receiver and that's it he can get the top deal for a slot receiver since he's the best in the game (IE a little more than Devon Bess). I didn't say Edelman was equal to Welker. I said given all of Welker's snaps in practice and during games he'd amass about 70% of Welker's production. No one on this team should be making over 10 million on offense besides Brady he's what makes the team go. I'm sorry that I don't care about leading the league in receptions and yards when it doesn't count.

Welker is a possession receiver, not a home run hitter. He doesn't live by the yard, he lives by the catch. He's only gotten to 100 yards 23 times since joining the Patriots, so getting to it once in 7 times in the playoffs isn't some shocking disappointment.

And feel free to show where Schefter said Welker wanted Johnson/Fitzgerald money. I think you'll find that he didn't say that. Here's what he actually said:

"Wes Welker is a slot receiver, and he wants to be paid like one of the top receivers in the game, which he has been. But a slot receiver typically doesn't make as much money as a Calvin Johnson or a Larry Fitzgerald, and that seems to be where these talks are bogged down slightly."

Schefter: Welker deal not expected - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston
 
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