Isn't The OL Already Much Better Than In 2024?

[rkarp1]

certainly improvements can be had thru scheme, coaching, leadership and health
Josh and Marrone can make a difference. Moses can be that needed leader.
having J Andrews, Strange, Sow, Lowe healthy all offseason has to help. Wallace and Robinson year 2 in the program should help too.

 

[JohnJH]

From middle to right side: Bradbury at Center, Onwenu at RG, and Moses at RT could be solid (and yes, much better than last year). Getting Conerly Jr. at the back of the 1st Round in a trade up with Day 2 Picks, would make the LT position better (even though he has room for improvement). LG is up for grabs.

 

[PatsFan2]

Yes, McDaniels always schemes to make sure weakness in the line are protected like designing plays for TEs to chip a DE before they run their route or adding an extra lineman on certain plays. That was lacking in last year's offense.

Also RB's who can Block and chip.

 

[mgteich]

From middle to right side: Bradbury at Center, Onwenu at RG, and Moses at RT could be solid (and yes, much better than last year). Getting Conerly Jr. at the back of the 1st Round in a trade up with Day 2 Picks, would make the LT position better (even though he has room for improvement). LG is up for grabs.

So Strange has gone from the answer at C or LG for 2025 (and perhaps beyond) to being on a similar level to Robinson and Sow?

IMO, the only issue to Strange being the starter is his health. We do need a LG for the future.

 

[rkarp1]

So Strange has gone from the answer at C or LG for 2025 (and perhaps beyond) to being on a similar level to Robinson and Sow?

IMO, the only issue to Strange being the starter is his health. We do need a LG for the future.

obviously last year is last year.
but Strange wasn't even a thought last year at OG, and his play at OC was poor.

 

[patfanken]

I mean the biggest question about this team right into the middle of the season is going to be the OL. MG set up the parameters of the discussion pretty clearly, but there are a couple of areas I'd like to point out that might aid in that discussion.

a. It needs to be pointed out that even the WORST of NFL OLmen win not only the majority of their battles, but the vast MAJORITY of their individual battles. And even some that they are blamed for can be because of faulty play structure or line blocking design, or perhaps a great line rush scheme and less about the individual's skill.

b. My biggest concern about the OL cannot be avoided. It's the CONTINUITY that can only be gained by the experience of playing in the same system with the same players for thousands of reps. No matter how individually talented the players are we bring in, there is going to be a LOT of changes to that OL and that was a group that didn't get much continuity last season.

New players, new coaches, new blocking systems, new offensive design will all hamper the early success of this OL. If you don't understand this reality, then you are blind to the most simple truths of playing the game of football. We need to show our knowledge of the game and not go nuts when things don't go perfectly (as it won't)

At least for next year the OL is NOT going to be a strength of this team, but rather to what degree of it being a negative. Getting it so the OL isn't hurting the team will be a great achievement for this staff.

People seem to forget how important that long CONTINUITY in the staff and system played in the overall success of team for those 20 years. I mean this team really DID suck last year, but think of how often the right penalty call, or lack of one, the right bounce of the ball or deflection might of made to the result of a game. The margin of victory or defeat is SO small that literally a half dozen plays out of 70 can change the result.

That is why you can see turn arounds like we saw with Denver and the Vikes last year, or Texas the year before, or the best example of all, the 2001 Pats can happen. You have to be good AND lucky. And no on knows that in advance.

I mean this is what we all find this journey so fascinating and waste so much time discussing it. Now I don't know how the personnel side of the OL quest will go over the next month 3 months, until the final 90 man roster is built, but there will be a LOT more to it than just finding 9 or 10 bodies to man the positions. I think the most interesting facet will the the schemes, systems, and designs that those players run and how disciplined and mentally tough they are when they do it. NONE of that has anything to do with talent or "wing span"

 

[JohnJH]

So Strange has gone from the answer at C or LG for 2025 (and perhaps beyond) to being on a similar level to Robinson and Sow?

IMO, the only issue to Strange being the starter is his health. We do need a LG for the future.

I never stated that Strange was the answer at C or LG. I merely stated what the starting depth chart could look like except for LT and LG (from C to RT). And, that both were unknowns. Conerly Jr. could be an answer at LT (if they trade back into the 1st Round per my original Post). Tyler Booker is the highest rated LG in the draft. Ratledge is a RG. And, there are those that say that Campbell and Banks Jr. would be best at LG. I like Kandra in the middle rounds and Trapilo and Belton as a possible RT of the future who could play ST as Rookies.

 

[rkarp1]

I mean the biggest question about this team right into the middle of the season is going to be the OL. MG set up the parameters of the discussion pretty clearly, but there are a couple of areas I'd like to point out that might aid in that discussion.

a. It needs to be pointed out that even the WORST of NFL OLmen win not only the majority of their battles, but the vast MAJORITY of their individual battles. And even some that they are blamed for can be because of faulty play structure or line blocking design, or perhaps a great line rush scheme and less about the individual's skill.

b. My biggest concern about the OL cannot be avoided. It's the CONTINUITY that can only be gained by the experience of playing in the same system with the same players for thousands of reps. No matter how individually talented the players are we bring in, there is going to be a LOT of changes to that OL and that was a group that didn't get much continuity last season.

New players, new coaches, new blocking systems, new offensive design will all hamper the early success of this OL. If you don't understand this reality, then you are blind to the most simple truths of playing the game of football. We need to show our knowledge of the game and not go nuts when things don't go perfectly (as it won't)

At least for next year the OL is NOT going to be a strength of this team, but rather to what degree of it being a negative. Getting it so the OL isn't hurting the team will be a great achievement for this staff.

People seem to forget how important that long CONTINUITY in the staff and system played in the overall success of team for those 20 years. I mean this team really DID suck last year, but think of how often the right penalty call, or lack of one, the right bounce of the ball or deflection might of made to the result of a game. The margin of victory or defeat is SO small that literally a half dozen plays out of 70 can change the result.

That is why you can see turn arounds like we saw with Denver and the Vikes last year, or Texas the year before, or the best example of all, the 2001 Pats can happen. You have to be good AND lucky. And no on knows that in advance.

I mean this is what we all find this journey so fascinating and waste so much time discussing it. Now I don't know how the personnel side of the OL quest will go over the next month 3 months, until the final 90 man roster is built, but there will be a LOT more to it than just finding 9 or 10 bodies to man the positions. I think the most interesting facet will the the schemes, systems, and designs that those players run and how disciplined and mentally tough they are when they do it. NONE of that has anything to do with talent or "wing span"

nice post and well thought out and written
but imo the biggest question is not the OL. the biggest question is the coaching staff.
will the scheme, individual coaching and new team culture improve? if it all does, the OL will be fine

 

[jdlboot14]

I'm fairly happy with 1st & 2nd string from LG - RT.
So, all we really need is ANYBODY at LT in the draft, and we'll be better off than Lowe has been.

I don't care if it's Campbell, Banks, Membou, Conerly in the 1st... or Simmons, Milum or Earsery who might fall into upper 2nd.

 

[rkarp1]

we continuously hear that good OC's can scheme protection for the teams OT's.
AVP couldn't
in theory, McD can

 

[TheRainMaker]

we continuously hear that good OC's can scheme protection for the teams OT's.
AVP couldn't
in theory, McD can

A QB that can diagnose a defense and make quick decisions can help make a mediocre line look better than it really is. Charlie Weiss had game plans with RB's and T's cutting edge rushers down to disguise the mismatches. The Panthers Super Bowl and anytime they played the Colts were the best examples. But the Pats lack of talent got exposed in SB42 going up against that Giants D-line. It was quite surprising they ran their same offense with Brady's bad ankle and Neal exiting. Light, Kaczur and later Solder are not good T's when they have to go one on one with elite rushers.

 

[denverpatsfan]

They also better draft or sign an old school blocking tight end. That Zeke Mowat sure could get the job done back in the day.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I expect that we will still add a couple of OL's, certainly a LT in the first 40 picks.
============
That being said, the OL won't be great, but it will greatly improved from last year.

We already have 3 new starters to play with Onwenu, compared to almost all of last year: Strange, Bradbury and Moses.

The OL that played much of the year consisted of Lowe, Jordan/Robinson, Brown, Onwenu, and Jacobs. Of course, for much of the year, they weren't all healthy.

Backups included Sow and Wallace and some scrubs.

Strange was available for a couple of games.
===========================
COMPARISONS
TACKLE
2024: an oft-injured Lowe, Jacobs, Wallace
2025: Moses, Lowe, Wallace (last two injured for much of last year)

GUARD
2024
Jordan, Robinson, Onwenu, Sow, Robinson
2025
Strange, Onwenu, Robinson, Schweitzer, Sow

CENTER
2024: Brown, Strange (for a couple of games)
2025: Bradbury, Brown, Andrews
=========
CONCLUSION
Our OL is already much more talented than last year, with 1-3 additions to come. A better OC, better coaching and better game plans should help a lot.

If they can stay healthy then you would most likely be right. And they should add a starting left tackle in the draft, so Onwenu would be the only returning starter. That’s a good thing.

 

[Huckleberry1]

On paper yes

My biggest worry is that its all flimsy to me

Strange cant be counted on for 17 games until proven otherwise. AND he has not proved to be all that great if we are honest to ourselves, so the experience will be missed

80% of what read of Bradbury is lukewarm at best, and the cs in minnessota actually tried to make him work, but couldnt

Moses, while good, is old

And that's it. That is what has been improved from what it was, honestly, the worst oline ive seen for a full season. Which they are coming back to "fight for positions"

I will add to the chorus, though, that yes, they all deserve at least some time after last season

The premise is that they will be better than last year. That’s not exactly a high bar.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I still want them to draft Willie Lampkin to be Maye’s personal protector.

 

[BobDigital]

Well last year they were the worst unit in the NFL on the whole. So when you start at the very bottom it's hard to not be somewhat better.

Strange being back may help... but hard to say. He wasn't good his rookie year. His 2nd year he was kind of a low level starter. Anyone who thinks he was average was being generous I think. Then last year coming off his injury he didn't look good. Doesn't mean he would he won't look better this year. But considering he came back in December you think think they were 100% on him being healthy or they would just keep him shut down the whole year. Of course that doesn't mean he was in football shape. And we don't know if the injury will have lasting effects.

Remember a lot of people considering him a big reach at 29th overall. Many thought he'd be there in round 3 or 4.. Has his play REALLY said anything different to this point?

At this point how much can we REALLY count on Strange? Will he be better than his back up from last year? Probably, but it is still a pretty weak spot.

As for Center.... We will be improved there.. But we added again a low level starter. But a starter none the less.. A in improvement compared to basically a JAG. An improvement for sure, but we could have used someone better.

Onwenu should again be solid.

Moses will be a big upgrade. That is one signing i was very happy with as are most of us i think.

My main issue with the line is this. The big signing which helped is on the right side. RT and RG are Onwenu and Moses and should be solid. Then it gets progressively worse as you go across the line.

Bradburry is a known quanity but a lowish level starter and is known for being better with runs vs passing. Which is where we really need to improve the most. Strange is a question mark at this point. LT is a complete unknown. It just gets worse and worse the further left you go towards Maye's blind side.

If instead of Moses we signed a solid LT. I would still have BIG concerns... but now at least i think Onwenu will be there to help out the RT a big and while LG may be weak we ave a solid LT and at the very least an NFL quality C to stop the bleeding. Instead we have have the most important side of our line looking very vulnerable.

And frankly No LT in this draft gives me hope of solving that problem this year. Not one. I don't care if i could have my pick of guy. Either they are injured, may be someone who is more of a Guard than Tackle or have some other question mark. I want a vet at that spot. And there are vets to be had right now. Trying to solve this in a 2 year plan is not acceptable. Maye already has 2 concussions. This simply can not be a multi year project.

 

[Ring 6]

obviously last year is last year.
but Strange wasn't even a thought last year at OG, and his play at OC was poor.

Huh?

 

[mgteich]

Well last year they were the worst unit in the NFL on the whole. So when you start at the very bottom it's hard to not be somewhat better.

Strange being back may help... but hard to say. He wasn't good his rookie year. His 2nd year he was kind of a low level starter. Anyone who thinks he was average was being generous I think. Then last year coming off his injury he didn't look good. Doesn't mean he would he won't look better this year. But considering he came back in December you think think they were 100% on him being healthy or they would just keep him shut down the whole year. Of course that doesn't mean he was in football shape. And we don't know if the injury will have lasting effects.

Remember a lot of people considering him a big reach at 29th overall. Many thought he'd be there in round 3 or 4.. Has his play REALLY said anything different to this point?

At this point how much can we REALLY count on Strange? Will he be better than his back up from last year? Probably, but it is still a pretty weak spot.

As for Center.... We will be improved there.. But we added again a low level starter. But a starter none the less.. A in improvement compared to basically a JAG. An improvement for sure, but we could have used someone better.

Onwenu should again be solid.

Moses will be a big upgrade. That is one signing i was very happy with as are most of us i think.

My main issue with the line is this. The big signing which helped is on the right side. RT and RG are Onwenu and Moses and should be solid. Then it gets progressively worse as you go across the line.

Bradburry is a known quanity but a lowish level starter and is known for being better with runs vs passing. Which is where we really need to improve the most. Strange is a question mark at this point. LT is a complete unknown. It just gets worse and worse the further left you go towards Maye's blind side.

If instead of Moses we signed a solid LT. I would still have BIG concerns... but now at least i think Onwenu will be there to help out the RT a big and while LG may be weak we ave a solid LT and at the very least an NFL quality C to stop the bleeding. Instead we have have the most important side of our line looking very vulnerable.

And frankly No LT in this draft gives me hope of solving that problem this year. Not one. I don't care if i could have my pick of guy. Either they are injured, may be someone who is more of a Guard than Tackle or have some other question mark. I want a vet at that spot. And there are vets to be had right now. Trying to solve this in a 2 year plan is not acceptable. Maye already has 2 concussions. This simply can not be a multi year project

It takes a willing player to have signed to be a solid LT for us. I'm happy that we got a really good RT. Even at the time, it didn't see that that someone was available LT, except at the 2nd or 3rd level, which will still be available after the draft.

 

[JohnJH]

On Paper? Yes. But the bar was set so low last season, that it's not something to even remotely feel good about.

 

[Grogan14]

The pats have locked themselves into a LT at 4 because they could not sign bridge LT during free agency.
They simply must come out of this draft with a reasonably sure bet solid LT, otherwise we will be slowing down Maye's development.
I do not think they can wait until round 2 OR bank on trading back into first.
This means they must either take their top rated LT at 4 or trade down into 9-10 and take best LT remaining.
I think the BPA strategy is a smoke screen and if both Carter and Hunter are gone by 4 (extremely likely)...they must come away with a highly rated LT in top 10 of the draft.

That probably means Membo or Campbell...but Campbell is the safest LT pick for where they are drafting.
They do not have the luxury of taking Jeanty or Warren...for this draft.

It is Campbell at 4 or Membou at 9

With either of these 2 guys the OL will be much improved next year and give Maye a chance to progress.