Is Josh McDaniels any good?

[mgteich]

It is what is it is.

You suggested taking the ball out Brady's hand and putting it into Ridly's. You compared this to the situation that Minny had, where they should have taken the ball out of Freeman's hand and put in into Peterson's hands.

For me, these situations are very different.

For me, the ball belongs in the hands of you best playmakers.

Yeah, I am comparing a career bum with Tom Brady and I am comparing a very good RB with clearly the greatest RB talent of his generation.

:bricks:

 

[ausbacker]

It is what is it is.

You suggested taking the ball out Brady's hand and putting it into Ridly's. You compared this to the situation that Minny had, where they should have taken the ball out of Freeman's hand and put in into Peterson's hands.

For me, these situations are very different.

For me, the ball belongs in the hands of you best playmakers.

No, I was talking about OCs universally abandoning the run game. You have invented the rest of your own doing.

 

[mgteich]

I apologize if I mischaracterized your position. Folks can read your post #137 and decide for themselves.

No, I was talking about OCs universally abandoning the run game. You have invented the rest of your own doing.

 

[ausbacker]

I apologize if I mischaracterized your position. Folks can read your post #137 and decide for themselves.

No need to apologise mgteich. We're all free to make our own inferences.

FTR, I was making a generic comment about OCs and abandoning the run game. I used the Freeman/Peterson comparison because it was MNF and I couldn't believe what I was watching. It was more a matter of it being fresh in my mind.

 

[Brady6]

Brady6-

Why do you believe the OC has any input in personnel decisions? The claim of late has been that nobody will stand up to BB in the organization since Pioli left. That BB is the lone decider as to who stays and who goes.

There has been plenty written on the war room, and the relationship between BB and Pioli. Nick Caserio took over Pioli's role.

You could speculate that McDaniels had something to do with Lloyd and Amendola joining the team, as he was on a prior team with both, but that may have been solely a result of insider scouting status and knowledge of their abilities - not some decider status as to the transactions.

Again, there is plenty written on BB and how he worked with Pioli in personnel matters. OCs ran the offense. Nothing more. Weis and McDaniels have never been identified, to my knowledge, as having votes in that personnel process. Any claim of some quantum shift in the decisionmaking process is pure speculation as you assume, without basis, that the OC has taken on what should be Caserio's job. If McDaniels is to blame for bad personnel decision, then you need some basis for saying BB changed his personnel process or that theory is no more than a work of fiction. BB's personnel decisionmaking is not a complete black box given the books and A Football Life offered to address the subject. If something, anywhere, suggest that McDaniels was brought back as OC and some form of personnel consigliere, I haven't seen it. If you have seen such a story, that might resolve your discussion with Deus.

My belief is part of the problem was how McDaniel’s was brought back, when O’Brien left we didn’t even publicly entertain another potential offensive coordinator. This was a bad decision in my opinion it gave McDaniel’s this sense of arrogance which is translating into his arrogant player personnel recommendations and arrogant play calling. It may sound dumb but I just feel like anytime your new girlfriend (O’Brien) leaves you and you don’t even stop to check the waters for potential new fish before you throw yourself at your ex-girlfriend (McDaniel’s) that ex-girlfriend enters the equation with an abundance of confidence built around the look who crawled back to who concept.

Aside from that in terms of football I just don’t see how while O’Brien was the coordinator the decision was made to trade Randy Moss and build the entire offense around Wes Welker, then McDaniel’s 2.0 arrives and by week 1 of 2012 Welker is seeing decreased snaps and then week 1 of 2013 Welker is playing in Denver. Add to that players like Salas, Fells, Larsen, Lloyd, Hoomanawanui, Gaffney, Tebow and Amendola who all were players under McDaniel’s in either Denver or St Louis and all have been on this team’s roster in some capacity over the last 18 months. Sadly of all of them Hoomanawanui has probably been the most successful in terms of what was expected and what was achieved.

McDaniel 2.0 is not a good offensive coordinator and he is even worse with personnel, this credit he receives for drafting players in Denver is a joke, because he was the coach and Denver has a general manager who openly disagreed with many of McDaniel’s decisions. We are talking about a guy so arrogant that within months of taking a head coaching job he traded the teams franchise QB away and then proceeded to draft Tim Tebow in the first round of the NFL draft, he is an awful coach and anyone who views it otherwise needs to stop watching recordings of the 2007 Patriots remember that when it came down to it really mattering in the super bowl McDaniel’s game planed an offense with a 28 year old Tom Brady and his receiving core of Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth and Jabar Gaffney to 14 points.

If you have noticed over the last 2 years when this team moves to a hurry up it is more successful, in my opinion that is because Brady makes better decisions than McDaniel’s in terms of play calling.

 

[VrabelJr]

I don't care how good of a QB you are, you need a running game and throwing the ball as much as we do is insane, especially with how ineffective our passing game has been. Don't turn it into Brady vs Ridley. The players don't matter.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Is Josh McDaniels any good?

I don't care how good of a QB you are, you need a running game and throwing the ball as much as we do is insane, especially with how ineffective our passing game has been. Don't turn it into Brady vs Ridley. The players don't matter.

I agree I know Ridley fumbled the ball in week 1.... But 6 weeks seems like an ample message.

 

[SVN]

My belief is part of the problem was how McDaniel’s was brought back, when O’Brien left we didn’t even publicly entertain another potential offensive coordinator. This was a bad decision in my opinion it gave McDaniel’s this sense of arrogance which is translating into his arrogant player personnel recommendations and arrogant play calling. It may sound dumb but I just feel like anytime your new girlfriend (O’Brien) leaves you and you don’t even stop to check the waters for potential new fish before you throw yourself at your ex-girlfriend (McDaniel’s) that ex-girlfriend enters the equation with an abundance of confidence built around the look who crawled back to who concept.

Aside from that in terms of football I just don’t see how while O’Brien was the coordinator the decision was made to trade Randy Moss and build the entire offense around Wes Welker, then McDaniel’s 2.0 arrives and by week 1 of 2012 Welker is seeing decreased snaps and then week 1 of 2013 Welker is playing in Denver. Add to that players like Salas, Fells, Larsen, Lloyd, Hoomanawanui, Gaffney, Tebow and Amendola who all were players under McDaniel’s in either Denver or St Louis and all have been on this team’s roster in some capacity over the last 18 months. Sadly of all of them Hoomanawanui has probably been the most successful in terms of what was expected and what was achieved.

McDaniel 2.0 is not a good offensive coordinator and he is even worse with personnel, this credit he receives for drafting players in Denver is a joke, because he was the coach and Denver has a general manager who openly disagreed with many of McDaniel’s decisions. We are talking about a guy so arrogant that within months of taking a head coaching job he traded the teams franchise QB away and then proceeded to draft Tim Tebow in the first round of the NFL draft, he is an awful coach and anyone who views it otherwise needs to stop watching recordings of the 2007 Patriots remember that when it came down to it really mattering in the super bowl McDaniel’s game planed an offense with a 28 year old Tom Brady and his receiving core of Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth and Jabar Gaffney to 14 points.

If you have noticed over the last 2 years when this team moves to a hurry up it is more successful, in my opinion that is because Brady makes better decisions than McDaniel’s in terms of play calling.

First of all this is all way off base after a last second loss. Wouldve been more credible if you wrote all this up after last week's last second win. Secondly, no one and we all know this no one overrules belichick and everything you see out there has his imprints. If josh is being who you think he is, BB will step in and handle it. And if he is not, you have to put this on BB . He calls all the shots. And about no other coordinator being a given a chance and him becoming arrogant - please , BB has never bought an external offensive coordinator forever. They are all homegrown and the onyl reason he was bought was because he fit right in.
Regarding denver and how he traded the franchise QB , go back and read what happened. The franchise QB refused to take calls from the owner of the team and wanted a huge deal. A whole lot went there .And once again , he wont trade the guy until the owner gives the blessing. You are putting a whole lot of **** on the guy. Yes, tebow was a bad draft choice and he made a few more but the current denver team is mostly built from his draft. What do you say about belichick's draft recently? he is bad and a problem too ?
So any reduced snaps of welker , any players pats bought in, you have a gripe with , step up and call out belichick . Nothing is done without his blessing.
For the record i dont think he is the problem. None of these threads were created last yr when we were blowing teams out. Just same old reactionary crap.

 

[SVN]

Seeing the fact that we're running at a 4.7 clip in the 2nd half when the run game is thrown out the window is disturbing to say the least, and hopefully it is something that is addressed. No one has more second half passes in the NFL than Brady this year.

That said, they obviously feel that they could have executed better and have been successful. When your receivers continue to run the wrong routes and drop balls, it makes things a lot tougher.

I want to see those rookies out in the rain on their day off hitting the JUGGS machine before the bye, watching extra film study, and practicing like their lives depend on it. I don't want to see a shot at 7-2 blown going into the bye losing to the likes of MIA and/or PIT. These 2 games are important.

I think a lot happens as the game goes on. The other team also makes adjustment and brady also changes plays a lot at the LOC if he sees a favorable matchup to pass .
No coordinator can do anything if you cant simply block or blow blocking assignments. Forcing a run in a stacked box is something pats never did in the past. They will do what is best . The fact that they have not made the plays - blocking , drops, poor brady decisions have very little to do with the coordinator. Not that he doesnt make mistakes but we cant call brady the best and coach on the field on one hand and then turn around and blame the sideline coach when **** hits the fan. This is a collective problem for the entire offensive staff including Belichick and they all shoulder the blame for the problems.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

No. Josh McDaniels is no good. He's only good by being near Belichick and Brady. Brady's a system quarterback. He's only good if he's around Belichick and McDaniels. Belichick is only good because he got lucky by having Brady around. And right now nobody's any good because we're 5-2 instead of 7-0.

Face it, this is the worst team that has have set foot on a football field. I doubt we can beat anybody right now

(I think Josh is pretty good. Not an expert, just a wise-ass.)

 

[AzorianPats]

Josh McDaniel's is a great OC, I wouldn't want any one else. You can't honestly blame him for the OL getting blown up, or all the dropped passes. Problem with this offense is lack of execution, not its coordinator.

 

[1960Pats]

Run the Damn ball. Even if they stuff you, run the ball!

Hear hear!

Enough with the pass-happy baloney.

Logan Mankins was upset on the sidelines. It wasn't because he missed his tee time.

 

[1960Pats]

The Jets are excellent against the run, actually being the best in the NFL.
The Jets are not as good against the pass.


What do you think any intelligent person would use as a basic game plan against the Jets?

Also, here are the runs when Ridley actually did get the ball:

1
2
5
7 (called back, holding penalty)
17
1 (called back, holding penalty)
4
0
1
12
8
0
0

Why the hell would people want more of that?

50 yards on 11 carries is over 4 ypc and might be one of the best averages of any team that faced the Jets run defense this year. If the Pats are in the lead they should be running the ball, especially since the pass is the weakest part of the offense now.

 

[1960Pats]

For all the talk about McDaniels not running the ball, the Pats are average in YPG (14th), rushing attempts (13th), and yards per attempt (11th). So the Pats don't ignore the run like a lot of people want to make it out to be.

I can't speak for everyone, but my complaint is about any game where they ignore the running game, not the times they use it properly. This was a time that it was working and they still ran away from the run.

 

[stcjones]

I think its a bit of an exageration to say that McDaniels has an "exceptional track record" 2007 was his highlight made possible by Randy Moss and Welker. Since then his track record has not been stellar. SB 2007, his playcalling was an abysmal failure....no adjustments....no creativity. When he came back in 11' to consult with OB during SB....that playcalling was decent overall but not earth shattering. Since then I think he has been pretty average here...with Brady Welker hernandez and gronk didn't take a genius to make that work..I guess we could have worse OCs....but not by that much....oh and if he was the driving force behind Injurymendola....then he should be fired. Blunderous pickup...guy will never stay healthy and they knew his track history...



QUOTE=Ivan;3610258]I don't think you can make an argument that MacDaniels is a bad OC by any means, his track record is exceptional, however he gets way too cute at times and will abandon the run game in favor of empty backfields much too often imo. Like Brady he is also suffering from the lack of experience at the skill positions, although I think he was a driving force behind the decision to get rid of Welker in favor of Amendola, and while that may pay off over the next five years asof this point in time it has been a big loss for the patriots, as Welker continues to be Welker and Amendola has largely been unavailable. When the Patriots get healthy and the young players have more experience I expect the offense to improve significantly but right now it is going to be a struggle, which is all the more reason to be m ore aggressive in the run game.

Right now every aspect of the patriots offense has to get better but their track record in this regard has always been strong and I expect that will be the case this year as well.[/QUOTE]

 

[DarrylS]

Not going to read 16 pages of posts on this topic, but do know that BB is not listening to Bon Jovi on those headphones, all of this is part of a team effort.. not the sole responsibility of any one person.

 

[Brady6]

First of all this is all way off base after a last second loss. Wouldve been more credible if you wrote all this up after last week's last second win. Secondly, no one and we all know this no one overrules belichick and everything you see out there has his imprints. If josh is being who you think he is, BB will step in and handle it. And if he is not, you have to put this on BB . He calls all the shots. And about no other coordinator being a given a chance and him becoming arrogant - please , BB has never bought an external offensive coordinator forever. They are all homegrown and the onyl reason he was bought was because he fit right in.
Regarding denver and how he traded the franchise QB , go back and read what happened. The franchise QB refused to take calls from the owner of the team and wanted a huge deal. A whole lot went there .And once again , he wont trade the guy until the owner gives the blessing. You are putting a whole lot of **** on the guy. Yes, tebow was a bad draft choice and he made a few more but the current denver team is mostly built from his draft. What do you say about belichick's draft recently? he is bad and a problem too ?
So any reduced snaps of welker , any players pats bought in, you have a gripe with , step up and call out belichick . Nothing is done without his blessing.
For the record i dont think he is the problem. None of these threads were created last yr when we were blowing teams out. Just same old reactionary crap.

This has nothing do with the second loss; actually I opened a thread last week after we beat the Saints that outlined my displeasure with McDaniel’s however the thread was moved to the practice squad section of the board within 30 minutes of fruition.

I don’t think Belichick is as against being challenged, I think that is a falsely create by media members based upon the lack of information he discloses to them, it seems apparent to me that Josh McDaniel’s has significant input into the offensive personnel decisions, whether he is challenging Belichick to get his way is obviously unknown but I don’t think that it is a coincidence that all of these former McDaniel’s players have been brought in over the last 2 seasons. McDaniel’s brought in several players from his time in New England when he first arrived in Denver, this shows unwillingness for change in my opinion and that is problematic as well.

Here is a lovely website created for Josh during his time in Denver: Josh McDaniels Sucks

Much of what is said on that email is very consistent with what has happened here over the past few years, in Denver issues almost immediately arose publically about Jay Cutler and McDaniel’s and similarly when McDaniel’s arrived here in 2012 issues began surfacing in the media about Wes Welker, in my opinion McDaniel’s has issues working with star players and instead would prefer to surround himself with journeymen players or players with baggage. Over the first 7 weeks of the season I have consistently seen McDaniel’s underuse Stevan Ridley in lieu of a lesser player. With Vereen on injured reserve in my opinion if Ridley is healthy there should never be a time that Blount is taking the field over him, and if McDaniel’s was ¼ the offensive coordinator that man claim he is he would recognize that.

Denver being built on his draft is untrue this is what the McDaniel’s era consisted of for draft picks:

2009

12 - Knowshon Moreno
18 - Robert Ayers
37 - Alphonso Smith
48 - Darcel McBath
64 - Richard Quinn
114 - David Bruton
132 - Seth Olsen
141 - Kenny McKinley
174 - Tom Brandstater
225 - Blake Schlueter

2010

22 - Demaryius Thomas
25 - Tim Tebow
45 - Zane Beadles
80 - J.D. Walton
87 - Eric Decker
137 - Perrish Cox
183 - Eric Olsen
225 - Syd'Quan Thompson
232 - Jammie Kirlew

McDaniel’s had 4 first round picks, 3 second round picks and a total of 20 draft picks during his time in Denver, when I look at the results and take into consideration that Jay Cutler was traded away to get some of the draft choices I am less than impressed, outside of Thomas and Decker you have less average selections.

For the record there were multiple threads opened last season questioning McDaniel’s as early as week 2 of last season in fact.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/948469-josh-mcdaniels-offense.html

 

[SVN]

This has nothing do with the second loss; actually I opened a thread last week after we beat the Saints that outlined my displeasure with McDaniel’s however the thread was moved to the practice squad section of the board within 30 minutes of fruition.

I don’t think Belichick is as against being challenged, I think that is a falsely create by media members based upon the lack of information he discloses to them, it seems apparent to me that Josh McDaniel’s has significant input into the offensive personnel decisions, whether he is challenging Belichick to get his way is obviously unknown but I don’t think that it is a coincidence that all of these former McDaniel’s players have been brought in over the last 2 seasons. McDaniel’s brought in several players from his time in New England when he first arrived in Denver, this shows unwillingness for change in my opinion and that is problematic as well.

Here is a lovely website created for Josh during his time in Denver: Josh McDaniels Sucks

Much of what is said on that email is very consistent with what has happened here over the past few years, in Denver issues almost immediately arose publically about Jay Cutler and McDaniel’s and similarly when McDaniel’s arrived here in 2012 issues began surfacing in the media about Wes Welker, in my opinion McDaniel’s has issues working with star players and instead would prefer to surround himself with journeymen players or players with baggage. Over the first 7 weeks of the season I have consistently seen McDaniel’s underuse Stevan Ridley in lieu of a lesser player. With Vereen on injured reserve in my opinion if Ridley is healthy there should never be a time that Blount is taking the field over him, and if McDaniel’s was ¼ the offensive coordinator that man claim he is he would recognize that.

Denver being built on his draft is untrue this is what the McDaniel’s era consisted of for draft picks:

2009

12 - Knowshon Moreno
18 - Robert Ayers
37 - Alphonso Smith
48 - Darcel McBath
64 - Richard Quinn
114 - David Bruton
132 - Seth Olsen
141 - Kenny McKinley
174 - Tom Brandstater
225 - Blake Schlueter

2010

22 - Demaryius Thomas
25 - Tim Tebow
45 - Zane Beadles
80 - J.D. Walton
87 - Eric Decker
137 - Perrish Cox
183 - Eric Olsen
225 - Syd'Quan Thompson
232 - Jammie Kirlew

McDaniel’s had 4 first round picks, 3 second round picks and a total of 20 draft picks during his time in Denver, when I look at the results and take into consideration that Jay Cutler was traded away to get some of the draft choices I am less than impressed, outside of Thomas and Decker you have less average selections.

For the record there were multiple threads opened last season questioning McDaniel’s as early as week 2 of last season in fact.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/948469-josh-mcdaniels-offense.html

Whatever satisfies you. If you are going to find links about josh mcdaniels sucks and all that you can find it for everyone including belichick. Please explain to me how he his blowing blocking assignments and drop balls and throwing pick sixes and giving up 20 sacks. yes its him..its all on him .lets fire him and give the playcalling to BB or let brady call the plays at the line -oh wait he does that already but we cant call him out ..

 

[Brady6]

Whatever satisfies you. If you are going to find links about josh mcdaniels sucks and all that you can find it for everyone including belichick. Please explain to me how he his blowing blocking assignments and drop balls and throwing pick sixes and giving up 20 sacks. yes its him..its all on him .lets fire him and give the playcalling to BB or let brady call the plays at the line -oh wait he does that already but we cant call him out ..

SVN; everything comes back around, these decisions to sign:

Brandon Lloyd - 3 year contract
Daniel Fells - 3 year contract
Jabar Gaffney - 3 year contract


These players were gone after just one season and we were forced to fill there voids clearly sooner than planned, add to that trading for Greg Salas who didn't even catch a ball, and now we have Danny Amendola signed on for 5 years of leading the team in injury report appearances. These decisions combined with Welker signing with Denver, Hernandez signing with Bristol County jail and Gronkowski's injuries have weakened the team to a degree where rookies are on the field before they're ready, and teams no longer respect the pass as much so they're bring far more pressure at Brady.

I don't believe that Lloyd, Fells, Salas, Gaffney or Amendola would have ever been on this roster if not for McDaniel's that's my position and had we went with other players we likely would be in a much better predicament.

 

[SVN]

50 yards on 11 carries is over 4 ypc and might be one of the best averages of any team that faced the Jets run defense this year. If the Pats are in the lead they should be running the ball, especially since the pass is the weakest part of the offense now.

I am sure the jets know that too, dont they and maybe tried to shut that down ?? Isnt that a possibility ? They ran on a 3rd and 1 and missed a blocking assignment and didnt covert so its not like they didnt try. Stuff didnt work as the game went on like it did in the first half.