Is it time to move on from Bill this offseason?

[borg]

 

[PatsFan2]

My question to those of you who say no is how much longer do you want Bill to stay if we look how we did the last couple years? If we go 10-7 and lose in the first round again are you fine keeping Bill? If we win 8 or 9 games and miss the playoffs are you keeping him? I am just curious to see what the bar that has to be met is for the people who want to keep Bill.

We wasted a good opportunistic Defense in 22 we can't do that in 2023 fix the Anemic Offense at all cost Offense Offense Offense in the Draft and FA. I say BB two years maybe one if he chokes this year again.

 

[sb1]

We wasted a good opportunistic Defense in 22 we can't do that in 2023 fix the Anemic Offense at all cost Offense Offense Offense in the Draft and FA.

The defense could use upgrades too. They were good not great IMO.

 

[203Pat]

We wasted a good opportunistic Defense in 22 we can't do that in 2023 fix the Anemic Offense at all cost Offense Offense Offense in the Draft and FA.

We were living off of defensive scores and it just isn't a sustainable model to win games. I think Curran likened it to "finding $20 bills on the ground until you get rich".

 

[203Pat]

The defense could use upgrades too. They were good not great IMO.

I still think we need a rangey coverage type LB and a real number 1 corner.

 

[PatsFan2]

The defense could use upgrades too. They were good not great IMO.

But our Offense and QB was bad.

 

[sb1]

But our Offense and QB was bad.

Lots of holes to fix everywhere.

 

[PatsFan2]

I still think we need a rangey coverage type LB and a real number 1 corner.

I think those Jones boys are going to morph into elite CB's. I love our CB situation.

 

[Scotty]

A year too soon ?....if we are seeing the gradual demise of BB based on this past season then I hope the Krafts have at least thought of a succession plan or question what may already be in place. This is going to be an important season coming up.

 

[Kontradiction]

At least playoffs with a new coaching staff and create the illusion they could contend for an AFCE title. Any less and it’s time to go.

That sounds like we would be the new Jay Fiedler Miami Dolphins. Just good enough to be mediocre, but that’s it. Maybe we are them with Bill still here. Not sure. But this “who would you get to replace him” nonsense needs to stop. Chances are, the team won’t be better off without him either. But residing in mediocrity every year isn’t going to give you a great chance to rebuild through the Draft. At some point, we’re just going to have to be really bad before we can get good again. Hope that makes sense. I’m wrestling with Round 2 of Covid and the brain fog makes me feel like even more of a moron than usual.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

Congrats on last night. I figured it would be a blowout but I didn't expect to to get that brutal.

Me either. Don’t think I’ve seen any team average nearly 10 yards/play other than maybe a High School game.

Before the UGA/OSU game I said that game was likely for the championship as neither Michigan or TCU were likely to hang with UGA. I admit that I didn’t expect OSU to play as well as they did though.

 

[TheRainMaker]

We wasted a good opportunistic Defense in 22 we can't do that in 2023 fix the Anemic Offense at all cost Offense Offense Offense in the Draft and FA. I say BB two years maybe one if he chokes this year again.

Since last year, they created the illusion for fans that their defense was better than it really was. Once again they were over overmatched by competent offenses.

We were living off of defensive scores and it just isn't a sustainable model to win games. I think Curran likened it to "finding $20 bills on the ground until you get rich".

Yep and every defense eventually cracks. Your offense has to score at some point. Ravens defense couldn’t replicate what they did in 2000 as well as the 2002 Bucs, 2013 Seahawks and 2015 Broncos.

 

[PatsFan2]

That sounds like we would be the new Jay Fiedler Miami Dolphins. Just good enough to be mediocre, but that’s it. Maybe we are them with Bill still here. Not sure. But this “who would you get to replace him” nonsense needs to stop. Chances are, the team won’t be better off without him either. But residing in mediocrity every year isn’t going to give you a great chance to rebuild through the Draft. At some point, we’re just going to have to be really bad before we can get good again. Hope that makes sense. I’m wrestling with Round 2 of Covid and the brain fog makes me feel like even more of a moron than usual.

Hope you get better dude.

 

[Kontradiction]

Hope you get better dude.

Thanks. I feel fine other than the brain fog and some chest tightness. Pretty much same as last time. Covid is a nothingburger for me. My wife struggles a bit more because she has asthma, but she’s getting some monoclonal bois and will be right as rain within 24-48 hours.

 

[crawhammer]

I suppose, who's the replacement? If you can replace Belichick with someone like Sean Payton then fine. Things have unraveled badly for Belichick over the last few seasons. Start with he let the GOAT go and heading into the 4th season post-Brady we still don't know if we have an adequate replacement. Not based on the 25-26 record with 0 playoff wins. Meanwhile the guy he pushed out the door is 5-1 in the postseason with a Super Bowl championship and heading into his third straight postseason.

Bringing in a completely washed up Cam Newton in 2020 was a really bad look. The offense was a complete joke.
His 1st round quarterback looked promising in 2021 until he effectively benched him in the wind storm at Buffalo. Since then Mac has been a completely different quarterback.

Pre-wind storm game:
12 games
16 TDs
8 INTs

Post-wind storm game:
19 games
22 TDs
18 INTs

Then there's the Patricia/Judge debacle. Two failed head coaches, who got extremely poor results from their quarterbacks, with no offensive coaching experience, hired to design a new offensive system and takeover the development of your franchise quarterback. This spectacularly blew up in Belichick's face. And probably will be the determining factor if he's to return for the 2023 season. Is Belichick willing to replace his unqualified buddies with a known experienced and competent offensive coordinator? If not then he should be shown the door with them.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I'm definitely there if "there" is that the content of the Kraft meeting should be the diplomatic version of...

- We know and thank you for that giant case of hardware in Foxboro
- We know you've got more of those left in you
- .500-ish ball isn't the ****show they think it is on Patsfans... "there are people 2-15 in China"
- [Pivot] but in NE that's not good enough. We're looking for reliably better than the flip of a coin. You need to be turning in 2-3 more wins this season minimum.
- Now tell me in ways an owner can understand: what's the plan? It's not like I can tell how this is going by the org chart. First thing, is that going to change? Will I be able to tell who does what by titles? There's a reason there are titles. Whatever you were shooting for last season by ditching them, you missed.
....Tell me how we're going to maintain excellence on the D side of the ball
....Tell me what's wrong on the O side of the ball, and I'm especially interested in QB and OL
....Tell me how that's getting fixed... you know you can buy whatever groceries are out there within the cap. but that's the reason for the cap... to see who can do the best with the same resources.

- Bottom line? I know the moment you leave, if you don't finish your career here, you're going to take some crap team to the Super Bowl. We've both seen that movie. Tell me how we're going to do it here.

- But given the last 3 years, tell me what I should be looking for by the end of preseason (you know, those 3 games before the reg. season.) Tell me what I should be seeing by the end of the first quarter, second, third, fourth, in the regular season. Take a week if you want then run through a list with me.

I don't want to micromanage but three years of hovering around .500 make it the "new us." Not good enough.

(meeting over)

He's BB. Everybody knows if Kraft moves on from him we won't see him with a cup in hand in front of the 7-11. He'll be wherever he wants to be and if he wants he can do a Lebron-style "The Decision" show about where he's going. All the BB-haters better realize one outcome can be him going to the Giants or elsewhere to prove his point (and working as hard as his 71 years allow, resulting in a post-Pats SB.)

But he's got to play ball for the kind of money he's getting, and that includes accountability. If it's impossible to hold a legend accountable, well, we've seen something like that movie too... (we couldn't just offer the GOAT insulting money bc that's all you have left after trying to buy enough weapons to satisfy him.) Here's hoping this can end in a resurgence IN New England, but que sera sera

 

[Triumph]

We were living off of defensive scores and it just isn't a sustainable model to win games. I think Curran likened it to "finding $20 bills on the ground until you get rich".

The Pats are a QB away from being a serious threat again.

Brady could win with these guys on offense because he would find the open man and deliver the ball where it needed to go. We need to find that type of guy again so the offense keeps moving the chains on 3rd down and 7's go up on the board instead of 3's.

 

[Steve:Section 102]

I’ve been saying the same thing for a while - one more season. It’s make or break this year. If the team is the picture of mediocrity again and we don’t win a playoff game next season, part ways, bottom out, and move on.

Me looking at another "we need to get rid of Bill" thread or thread hijack. At least we can keep all the thread hijacks in one place.

I am not so entrenched in the IBWT camp as I used to be, and unlike a lot of the IBWT folks, I do not believe he is above criticism, so here you go:

I hate the nepotism, maybe the boys are really good coaches. Maybe they are yes men for Bill. No idea. I'd prefer that they made their bones elsewhere, and not under Bill's umbrella of protection. The experiment of Judge and Patricia is an abject failure. That's on Bill.

Mac's propensity for Manningface is a problem. Manning does it, that's fine, he is one of the greats to play. Mac Jones isn't. It's on Bill to correct it. While I doubt it causes them to lose, it's not a good look from a second year player who's in the bottom of the league. That's on Bill to correct.

Patricia is far too conservative, was as DC, and is as OC. Needs to go, and that's on Bill.

ST was not a strength of the team, unlike the past. That's on Bill, as he preaches being good in all three phases.

So, I agree that next season is the make or break for Bill. We did see some breakdowns from the Pats this year that we have not seen in Belichick coached teams of the past. There's a lot to put on Bill this year, and we have not seen that since '09. I don't know where the problem lies, but it's on him to find it and fix it. If it's a locker room cancer, it needs to go. I'm guessing that there's a dearth of leadership among the young guys, and maybe the remaining old guys just aren't leading like they used to. The question in my mind is whether on not 71 year old Bill can do what 60 year old Bill could do.

There's a part of me that just wants to pull the bandaid off now and move on just so the people here will STFU about it already. We are guaranteed the next guy isn't going to have the football acumen that Bill has. No one in the NFL has it. But there's a whole bunch of guys want him gone, so have at it. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[archstanton543]

- Bottom line? I know the moment you leave, if you don't finish your career here, you're going to take some crap team to the Super Bowl. We've both seen that movie. Tell me how we're going to do it here.

You don't know that for sure. A team looking for a fresh start is going to hire a guy who's going to be 71 and well into the back-9 or do you think teams are going to go for a young up-and-comer with a fresh perspective? Plus if BB comes in to another team, it's going to take a while to install his system and then get the players on the team to buy in...or not. That's going to take a year or two at a minimum. At that point BB is going to be 73 and even closer to the end of his career.

Do you think BB at his age is going to want to walk into a situation where he has to start from scratch, more or less?

Yep, Tom Brady can waltz onto a team and win a SB with a team that's a QB away. A team that's a head coach away needs a hell of a lot more work that one that just needs one player.

 

[Rob0729]

Before this year, I would say it would be insane to move on from Bill. After this season, I am wondering if it isn't a bad idea to move on. If you watched this season and had no idea who Bill Belichick was, you would think he was an awful head coach. This year was literally a year that we would have mocked at if it was the Jets' head coach and not Belichick.

You gotta wonder if this was a huge brain fart by Belichick or has he just lost it. This entire season seemed more about making sure his guys have a successful career post him rather than what is best for the team. And this team was the anti-Belichick team - dumb, sloppy, poor situational awareness, awful special teams, poor time management, poor timeout management, etc.

If I am Robert Kraft, I want to know he accepts everything he did wrong this year and that he has a plan to fix it. Not just say, "Yeah, it was a mistake to put Patricia at OC, but we saw it coming together at the end of the year. So all the mistakes of this year will pay dividends with Patricia as OC next year." He needs to admit Patricia and Judge were mistakes and give Kraft a list of OC candidate with real experience to replace them.

In fact, according to Bedard that is exactly what Kraft wants from him (at least a real plan for next year):



If Belichick does stay (which I expect), he is most certainly on the hot seat in 2023. I think he needs a playoff win next year or he will be gone.