Is Connor Barwin now a 1st round pick?

[Box_O_Rocks]

Other than the guys expected to go Top 15, none.

I'd take Sintim at 23 before Barwin...but I'd take Barwin before anybody else at that position.

Sintim is safe and he's my #1 SILB candidate, so I've got no quibble with that determination...which is part of why I want to trade up from 47 and take Sintim after Barwin.

 

[bakes781]

You see Ayers as a 3-4 DE? If so, how does he figure into the OLB discussion?

You asked me about DE/LB

In regards to proven ability...Barwin's got loads of ability, but what's his natural postion? His college coaches couldn't even figure that out, so I'm not ready to say he's proven at any one specific thing. Matthews has NFL ability in his blood lines and did you see all the USC LBs at the combine yesterday? I'd say they're pretty loaded at the position, so it's not surprising that Matthews didn't start right away.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

You asked me about DE/LB

In regards to proven ability...Barwin's got loads of ability, but what's his natural postion? His college coaches couldn't even figure that out, so I'm not ready to say he's proven at any one specific thing. Matthews has NFL ability in his blood lines and did you see all the USC LBs at the combine yesterday? I'd say they're pretty loaded at the position, so it's not surprising that Matthews didn't start right away.

Yep, I saw those USC Linebackers and I'm still scratching my head over the hype around those kids. Maualuga isn't the stud people think he is. Cushing is falling, even after an adequate Combine yesterday. Matthews' blood isn't going to be making any plays on the field, he's got to do it himself - and as long as you're arguing that Barwin has no "natural position," what is Matthews' natural position? It's not like the USC coaches knew what to do with him either.

 

[bakes781]

Well their "hype" has been a lot longer lived than that of Barwin's, so I personally place more value in it. Keep in mind I'm only arguing his value as a 1st round pick. From what I've read about him prior to yesterday I would very much like him in the 2nd round. I would actually prefer an ILB in the 1st, but I already know we don't agree there either.

Matthews has at least gotten which side of the field down. Versatility is a good thing, but when he's constantly being moved I question whether he's a fit at any.

I believe in taking the safer pick in the 1st round and IMO, Clay Matthews is the safer pick.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Well their "hype" has been a lot longer lived than that of Barwin's, so I personally place more value in it. Keep in mind I'm only arguing his value as a 1st round pick. From what I've read about him prior to yesterday I would very much like him in the 2nd round. I would actually prefer an ILB in the 1st, but I already know we don't agree there either.

Matthews has at least gotten which side of the field down. Versatility is a good thing, but when he's constantly being moved I question whether he's a fit at any.

I believe in taking the safer pick in the 1st round and IMO, Clay Matthews is the safer pick.

Well someone 'round these parts, I think, was arguing Barwin might actually work as a 3-4 ILB. . . .

 

[VJCPatriot]

I prefer Barwin on the outside. Let him use his natural gifts to rush the passer.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Well their "hype" has been a lot longer lived than that of Barwin's, so I personally place more value in it. Keep in mind I'm only arguing his value as a 1st round pick. From what I've read about him prior to yesterday I would very much like him in the 2nd round. I would actually prefer an ILB in the 1st, but I already know we don't agree there either.

Matthews has at least gotten which side of the field down. Versatility is a good thing, but when he's constantly being moved I question whether he's a fit at any.

I believe in taking the safer pick in the 1st round and IMO, Clay Matthews is the safer pick.

I'd argue Barwin is the "safest" conversion project in this draft.

- He saw playing time at TE and on Special Teams as a true freshman Player Bio: Connor Barwin :: Football.
- He was asked to walk-on the basketball team and was effective as a reserve Player Bio: Connor Barwin :: Men's Basketball.
- He played on STs and as a reserve TE in all 13 football games as a sophomore.
- He was again asked to walk-on for basketball as a sophomore and collected 32 rebounds, 9 blocked shots, and 5 steals in 22 games...the 38 personal fouls may have been a tad excessive, but he's no shrinking violet.
- He started at TE as a junior, the guy playing ahead of him the previous two years was signed by Philadelphia and had a monster game against Arizona in the playoffs this year.
- He was asked to switch to DE in the Spring and wound up starting...and leading the Big East (a BCS conference) in sacks.

If NE drafts him and askes him to change position to 3-4 OLB, is there any question about his ability to adapt and contribute?

Further, Barwin currently has 16 lbs on Matthews, he's faster in a straight line, more explosive, has similar change of direction numbers, and longer arms for blocking passes and stacking blockers...he also doesn't have this note in his profile: "Prefers to run around blocks rather than take them on. While he improved as the year went on, remains a work in progress in disengaging from blocks." Which is the "safer" project, the slightly undersized kid with the bloodlines and no true position or the kid who is already NE Linebacker-sized and has demonstrated his ability to adapt to change?

 

[bakes781]

Which is the "safer" project, the slightly undersized kid with the bloodlines and no true position or the kid who is already NE Linebacker-sized and has demonstrated his ability to adapt to change?

In PatsNutMe's draft game last month you had Barwin going with the 58th pick where as I had him with the 47th. The 1st word you used to describe him = Raw. Now after the Combine he's a sure fire 1st round pick? Obviously you have your mind made up, but I'd like to wait and see come draft day. If I'm wrong I'll admit it.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

In PatsNutMe's draft game last month you had Barwin going with the 58th pick where as I had him with the 47th. The 1st word you used to describe him = Raw. Now after the Combine he's a sure fire 1st round pick? Obviously you have your mind made up, but I'd like to wait and see come draft day. If I'm wrong I'll admit it.

Yep, he's raw, and in my second pre-Combine mock I didn't even pick him - the joys of fantasy play. However, you may recall I did a value analysis prior to PATSNUTMe's game where I placed Barwin at the beginning of the second round (relative to Sean Crable's 3rd round value) and said he could climb into the late first. After that Combine performance, am I truly inconsistent in setting his value at #23?

 

[bakes781]

After that Combine performance, am I truly inconsistent in setting his value at #23?

Not if you put that much stock into it. I personally don't.

I felt Clay Matthews was a high 2nd prior to the combine. Now I have him late 1st. That's about as much stock as I'm willing to put in it.

My feeling is some teams will put even more stock into the Combine than even you and have Barwin rated in the mid 1st range. However I don't think BB will fall into that same trap.

 

[BPF]

I'd argue Barwin is the "safest" conversion project in this draft.

- He saw playing time at TE and on Special Teams as a true freshman Player Bio: Connor Barwin :: Football.
- He was asked to walk-on the basketball team and was effective as a reserve Player Bio: Connor Barwin :: Men's Basketball.
- He played on STs and as a reserve TE in all 13 football games as a sophomore.
- He was again asked to walk-on for basketball as a sophomore and collected 32 rebounds, 9 blocked shots, and 5 steals in 22 games...the 38 personal fouls may have been a tad excessive, but he's no shrinking violet.
- He started at TE as a junior, the guy playing ahead of him the previous two years was signed by Philadelphia and had a monster game against Arizona in the playoffs this year.
- He was asked to switch to DE in the Spring and wound up starting...and leading the Big East (a BCS conference) in sacks.

If NE drafts him and askes him to change position to 3-4 OLB, is there any question about his ability to adapt and contribute?

Further, Barwin currently has 16 lbs on Matthews, he's faster in a straight line, more explosive, has similar change of direction numbers, and longer arms for blocking passes and stacking blockers...he also doesn't have this note in his profile: "Prefers to run around blocks rather than take them on. While he improved as the year went on, remains a work in progress in disengaging from blocks." Which is the "safer" project, the slightly undersized kid with the bloodlines and no true position or the kid who is already NE Linebacker-sized and has demonstrated his ability to adapt to change?

You are beginning to convert my on Barwin as a possible 1st Rd pick, especially after taking in his extremely imppressive combine where he finished with a 4.66 40, was tops in the vertical with 40.5, a 3-cone of 6.87, short shuttle of 4.18 and broad jump of 10'08.' The guy is a tremendous, tremendous athlete who should be able to make the transition to OLB physically, how about mentally? Can he be counted on, he seems like a gym rat who loves the challenge of sports so I would assume so. Do you have any insight on how smart this kid is.

Of course there is still FA to go and things can change dramatically with signings, trades, etc but as of this point I would consider him as a candidate. He's shooting up the draft boards like Gilbert.

At this point I feel Delmas is probably a better bet at 23 after his impressive combine coupled with his impressive resume and tape. Delmas also better fits a position of extreme need, where we are really thin. We need some playmakers at safety and Delmas is a strong candidate. He is clearly the #1 safety available.

 

[mayoclinic]

Box, with all due respect you have waffled a bit regarding Barwin. For a while you were a bit off the Barwin bandwagon, emphasizing his rawness and preferring more experienced 3-4 LB projects with less athleticism and upside such as Sintim (while still liking Barwin as a "raw" project). The combine seems to have shifted your priorities a bit.

I have always liked Barwin by far the best of all the potential 3-4 LB candidates, and I was the main guy saying that I thought he could potentially shine at SILB as well as 3-4 OLB. I've always preferred him to Matthews, Sintim (both of whom I like) Larry English (who I liked, but not at his higher weight), and Robert Ayers, all of whom have gotten a fair amount of hype. It seems to me that the combination of his rare athleticism and near-perfect intangibles (character, intelligence, high motor, etc.) make for a near "perfect storm" as a Pats-type prospect. I would be thrilled to get him.

BUT he is extremely raw, and 23 is a big jump for him, and I don't think that his combine performance merits it. The press and lay public will jump all over his numbers, but anyone who followed him knew that he was extremely athletic, and was likely to put up impressive numbers - maybe not quite as impressive as he did, but it's not entirely surprising. So while he may shoot up draft boards, I don't think that my appraisal of him has changed very much. The question is whether there is better value available at #23, and I suspect that there will be. I also suspect that he will fall back a bit by draft time. There is a tendency to jump on the bandwagon of these guys right at their peak moment, which is probably now for Barwin, just like the Senior Bowl was probably Raji's peak. I think in the end he will end up in the 1st half of the 2nd round based on his athleticism and upside.

As of this moment, I would probably pass at #23, but would be willing to trade up from #47 to get him in the early 2nd round.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The guy is a tremendous, tremendous athlete who should be able to make the transition to OLB physically, how about mentally? Can he be counted on, he seems like a gym rat who loves the challenge of sports so I would assume so. Do you have any insight on how smart this kid is.

From his NFL Draft Scout profile: " Very coachable because of his intelligence, work ethic and motor."

That, coupled with Coach Kelly's willingness to switch him to Defensive End in the first place suggests the coach knew what to expect to going into the switch over.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Box, with all due respect you have waffled a bit regarding Barwin.

At what point have I listed any other prospect as my #1 OLB? No waffling there.

Sintim is my #1 SILB prospect and always has been; you'll recall we've disagreed over your consideration of Barwin as a SILB candidate - no waffling there.

The reason to "take" Sintim ahead of Barwin was based on "position of need" - ILB with Bruschi aging is the greater position of need. Moving Adalius back inside only works if Woods is ready to be the starter...and has been tendered or re-signed. Sintim is more NFL-ready than Barwin, that's never been in doubt and has to be weighed against the roster realities - any speculation leading up to the draft is based on trying to guess the roster and BB's pre-draft moves - lot's of latitude for exploring alternative scenerios.

Where is it written that a "binky" has to be drafted ahead of any other prospect? Ray Ventrone has been my "binky" since he was signed as a UDFA, but I'm not calling for him to start ahead of Welker.

And while we're counting coup, as far as patsfans' records show, you're a Johnny-come-lately to the Barwin watch:
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...13/171477-if-we-want-te-help.html#post1137766
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...02266-my-blueprint-next-year.html#post1232211

 

[JSn]

Barwin will be a bust.









In Canton.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Barwin will be a bust.









In Canton.

Let's not yada yada yada.

After all, he could end up with Ratgini, who never met a linebacker he couldn't render ineffective. . . .

 

[JSn]

Let's not yada yada yada.

After all, he could end up with Ratgini, who never met a linebacker he couldn't render ineffective. . . .

hehe, I really don't have an opinion on Barwin, just tried to play the contrarian.

Maybe he's the next Gholston.

 

[BPF]

Bunting's take on Barwin:

The National Football Post | Scout’s Eye: Combine Breakdown 2

Possibly my favorite prospect in this year’s draft is OLB/DE/TE Connor Barwin. He displayed much better then anticipate straight-line speed and athleticism during his workout yesterday. Barwin recorded the second fastest 40-time among all defensive lineman at 4.66 as well as the top 3-cone drill and 20-yrd shuttle time. Barwin proved he isn’t simply a straight-line athlete and could be forcing his way into the mid/early portions of round two.

 

[mayoclinic]

At what point have I listed any other prospect as my #1 OLB? No waffling there.

Sintim is my #1 SILB prospect and always has been; you'll recall we've disagreed over your consideration of Barwin as a SILB candidate - no waffling there.

The reason to "take" Sintim ahead of Barwin was based on "position of need" - ILB with Bruschi aging is the greater position of need. Moving Adalius back inside only works if Woods is ready to be the starter...and has been tendered or re-signed. Sintim is more NFL-ready than Barwin, that's never been in doubt and has to be weighed against the roster realities - any speculation leading up to the draft is based on trying to guess the roster and BB's pre-draft moves - lot's of latitude for exploring alternative scenerios.

Where is it written that a "binky" has to be drafted ahead of any other prospect? Ray Ventrone has been my "binky" since he was signed as a UDFA, but I'm not calling for him to start ahead of Welker.

And while we're counting coup, as far as patsfans' records show, you're a Johnny-come-lately to the Barwin watch:
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...13/171477-if-we-want-te-help.html#post1137766
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...02266-my-blueprint-next-year.html#post1232211

I figured my post would provoke a spirited response from you. Go gettim tiger.

 

[JSn]

Bunting's take on Barwin:

The National Football Post | Scout’s Eye: Combine Breakdown 2

Possibly my favorite prospect in this year’s draft is OLB/DE/TE Connor Barwin. He displayed much better then anticipate straight-line speed and athleticism during his workout yesterday. Barwin recorded the second fastest 40-time among all defensive lineman at 4.66 as well as the top 3-cone drill and 20-yrd shuttle time. Barwin proved he isn’t simply a straight-line athlete and could be forcing his way into the mid/early portions of round two.

Hm. #35, mayhaps?