Is Caldwell done?

[pats1]

can any of you Caldwell supporters disprove this?

Gaffney is the better receiver when it matters most.

Weren't you the one *****ing about how stats were useless?

Like shmessy said, would you like me to take the stats from Manning and Brady in the playoffs? Brady already has a handful of "chokes."

If 3 games' worth of stats determined which players were better, Rex Grossman would be the best QB in the NFL.

 

[shmessy]

no it's not ridiculous.
Dillon is a better playoff running back right now than Maroney.

You made a dogcrap comparison just like all the other dogcrap comparisons i've seen in this thread to Defend caldwell and his choke in Indianapolis.
Maybe if Maroney fumbled the ball twice inside the pats 20, then it would be a valid comparison. As of now, it is garbage.


thanks for the stock tips, Pops. don't worry, i would never buy a stock that crapped it's pants twice when it mattered most. I appreciate it anyways though.

Evidently, you understand the financial markets as deeply as you understand football.

 

[Kdo5]

no it's not ridiculous.
Dillon is a better playoff running back right now than Maroney.

You made a dogcrap comparison just like all the other dogcrap comparisons i've seen in this thread to Defend caldwell and his choke in Indianapolis.
Maybe if Maroney fumbled the ball twice inside the pats 20, then it would be a valid comparison. As of now, it is garbage.


thanks for the stock tips, Pops. don't worry, i would never buy a stock that crapped it's pants twice when it mattered most. I appreciate it anyways though.

As I recall Maroney DID fumble right next to the endzone but Logan Mankins bailed his ass out.

 

[shmessy]

Weren't you the one *****ing about how stats were useless?

Like shmessy said, would you like me to take the stats from Manning and Brady in the playoffs? Brady already has a handful of "chokes."

If 3 games' worth of stats determined which players were better, Rex Grossman would be the best QB in the NFL.

Exactly. Keegs would be proclaiming the need for the Pats to trade Brady for Plummer after the January 2006 playoff loss.

 

[pats1]

Actually, a better analogy would have been if Gostkowski had missed TWO 20 yard field goals in the AFC Championship game. Remember, Reche messed up on TWO easy TD passes in that game.

Can you imagine if the Ghost had missed two 20 yard field goals? He would've been roasted alive. "We should've kept Vinatieri!" everybody would have screamed. But yet, Reche gets a free ride. I don't get it.

You and whoever else torching Gostkowski would be chastised, and rightfully so.

 

[Kdo5]

Actually, a better analogy would have been if Gostkowski had missed TWO 20 yard field goals in the AFC Championship game. Remember, Reche messed up on TWO easy TD passes in that game.

Can you imagine if the Ghost had missed two 20 yard field goals? He would've been roasted alive. "We should've kept Vinatieri!" everybody would have screamed. But yet, Reche gets a free ride. I don't get it.

2 EASY TD's? If I recall the second drop he was still a good distance away from reaching the endzone. He would have had to catch it and dash for the endzone. And Colts defenders arent exactly sloths.

 

[Rob0729]

can any of you Caldwell supporters disprove this?

Gaffney is the better receiver when it matters most.

Have you ever seen Marvin Harrison's post season stats?

How about regular season stats:

Caldwell - 61 catches, 760 yards, 4 TDs
Gaffney - 11 catches, 149 yards, 1 TD

As for the choke thing, drop balls aren't chokes. Throwing a ball right to the defender's bread-basket on key drives is a choke. Brady has done that in our final post season game of each of the last two years. Brady throwing the ball to Marlon Jackson was a far bigger choke than Caldwell dropping two balls. By your assessment, Brady is no longer clutch. Why won't you address that?

Caldwell had a bad game. He came through in the clutch in San Deigo. That was a huge game and he stepped up exactly when he needed it. He might have even had a better game if he didn't get a questionable non-PI call in the endzone in that game.

It is yahooism to base a player's worth based on two dropped passes in one game. He did make other plays in that game. It wasn't his fault that the offense didn't move down the field. There were other guys more responsible than that. We scored on one drive where he dropped the ball and Brady threw a stupid interception on the other.

 

[Keegs]

Weren't you the one *****ing about how stats were useless?

Like shmessy said, would you like me to take the stats from Manning and Brady in the playoffs? Brady already has a handful of "chokes."

If 3 games' worth of stats determined which players were better, Rex Grossman would be the best QB in the NFL.

I said stats didn't matter when you were posting them.
I told you Caldwell choked in the playoffs and you gave me his total number of receptions for the regular season. Which is like giving me Al Del Greco's field goal percentage when i ask for Favre's Td passes.

The stats i gave explain how Gaffney is a better playoff receiver than Caldwell. They explain how Gaffney performs better than Reche in the Biggest games. Thats what my point is. And it's the truth.

Once again, comparing Brady and Manning to try and disprove my Caldwell point is wrong. Brady has proved he can win big games over and over.
Caldwell hasn't.

 

[Rob0729]

Actually, a better analogy would have been if Gostkowski had missed TWO 20 yard field goals in the AFC Championship game. Remember, Reche messed up on TWO easy TD passes in that game.

Can you imagine if the Ghost had missed two 20 yard field goals? He would've been roasted alive. "We should've kept Vinatieri!" everybody would have screamed. But yet, Reche gets a free ride. I don't get it.

Huh? It would be exactly like it if you didn't twist the truth. There was no way he would have gotten a TD on that last drive. There were plenty of defenders down the field and Caldwell was stopped and had is body turned when the ball got to him. It is unlikely he could have turned his body and then ran down the field forty yards from a dead stop.

By the way, if Gostkowski missed two easy field goals in the AFC Championship, I would be upset but I wouldn't want him to be cut. I would look at his entire season of work and make a judgement off of that.

Look at Vinatieri. He had a horrible Super Bowl game vs. the Panthers. He missed two makeable field goals and screwed up a kick off that helped the Panthers get an easy 3 points in a drive where they only had 12 second left in the half. The guy makes a chipshot field goal at the end of the game and people are all over him because he is the most clutch kicker of all time. The thing was that one kick made him go from the reason the Pats lost the Super Bowl to Super Bowl hero. If it wasn't for his crappy performance, he would never had to be in a position to make that last second kick.

 

[Keegs]

Have you ever seen Marvin Harrison's post season stats?

How about regular season stats:

Caldwell - 61 catches, 760 yards, 4 TDs
Gaffney - 11 catches, 149 yards, 1 TD

As for the choke thing, drop balls aren't chokes. Throwing a ball right to the defender's bread-basket on key drives is a choke. Brady has done that in our final post season game of each of the last two years. Brady throwing the ball to Marlon Jackson was a far bigger choke than Caldwell dropping two balls. By your assessment, Brady is no longer clutch. Why won't you address that?

Caldwell had a bad game. He came through in the clutch in San Deigo. That was a huge game and he stepped up exactly when he needed it. He might have even had a better game if he didn't get a questionable non-PI call in the endzone in that game.

It is yahooism to base a player's worth based on two dropped passes in one game. He did make other plays in that game. It wasn't his fault that the offense didn't move down the field. There were other guys more responsible than that. We scored on one drive where he dropped the ball and Brady threw a stupid interception on the other.

I've already addressed all of this in previous posts.. Either read the thread or get off the bandwagon.

Caldwell started 14 games, Gaffney only 6. That explains the difference in regular season numbers. Which i don't know why i'm even saying this since my argument is based off of the playoffs and doesn't have a damn thing to do w/ the regular season.

Also, Drop balls are DEFINITELY chokes. 2 easy catches that were dropped.


ok for the 27th time...... Brady can't be considered a choker in the way that Reche has.. Brady has won 3 rings. 2 superbowl mvps, over 20 game winning drives. Countless clutch plays....

Reche has crap. One catch in San Diego that was b/c of a PERFECT ball thrown by Brady. Bethel johnson would have caught it and had the decency to stay inbounds.

 

[shmessy]

I said stats didn't matter when you were posting them.
I told you Caldwell choked in the playoffs and you gave me his total number of receptions for the regular season. Which is like giving me Al Del Greco's field goal percentage when i ask for Favre's Td passes.

The stats i gave explain how Gaffney is a better playoff receiver than Caldwell. They explain how Gaffney performs better than Reche in the Biggest games. Thats what my point is. And it's the truth.

Once again, comparing Brady and Manning to try and disprove my Caldwell point is wrong. Brady has proved he can win big games over and over.
Caldwell hasn't.

Maroney vs. Dillon in those three games.
Brady in that game and in the Denver playoff loss.

Most of the posters see right through that.

 

[PATSNUTme]

This is for this thread.

 

[jmt57]

Personally, I have more faith in Caldwell than Gafney at this point in time. Most of Gafney's catches came late in the season when he was somewhat of a surprise to other teams that ignoring him and were keying in on Caldwell. Washington has yet to prove anything to me in the NFL, we'll have to wait and see. Brady appeared to have a higher comfort level with Caldwell than anyone else. But anything could happen, there's almost half a year to go before the season starts; plenty of time for BB to decide what's best.

 

[pats1]

I've already addressed all of this in previous posts.. Either read the thread or get off the bandwagon.

Caldwell started 14 games, Gaffney only 6. That explains the difference in regular season numbers. Which i don't know why i'm even saying this since my argument is based off of the playoffs and doesn't have a damn thing to do w/ the regular season.

Fine. Let's check out the averages then.

Caldwell had 57 catches as a starter, over 14 games. 4 catches per game.

Caldwell had 709 yards as a starter, over 14 games. 51 yards per game.

Gaffney had 7 catches as a starter, over 6 games. 1 catch per game.

Gaffney had 49 yards as a starter, over 6 games. 8 yards a game.

Simply put, Caldwell was consistently good through the season and into the postseason, when he actually got BETTER. Gaffney was inconsistently mediocre as a starter but had such a jump in the Jets game (but went back to mediocrity against the Colts, when "it matters"), but because his jump was coming from a lower position, it made him look better than Caldwell.

 

[Keegs]

Fine. Let's check out the averages then.

Caldwell had 57 catches as a starter, over 14 games. 4 catches per game.

Caldwell had 709 yards as a starter, over 14 games. 51 yards per game.

Gaffney had 7 catches as a starter, over 6 games. 1 catch per game.

Gaffney had 49 yards as a starter, over 6 games. 8 yards a game.

Simply put, Caldwell was consistently good through the season and into the postseason, when he actually got BETTER. Gaffney was inconsistently mediocre as a starter but had such a jump in the Jets game (but went back to mediocrity against the Colts, when "it matters"), but because his jump was coming from a lower position, it made him look better than Caldwell.

More garbage stats from the King of Worthless Information.
How many times do i have to stress that i am talking about the playoffs?

Quit posting regular season stats.:singing:

So gaffney was "inconsistently mediocre" (doesn't fit, but whatever) in the Colts game?
Caldwell had 4 catches for 46 yards and 2 huge drops.
Gaffney had 3 catches for 37 yards and a touchdown.
Gaffney had the better game there, when it mattered most.

Are you getting tired of this yet?


And Gaffney's playoff performances were superior to Reche's. I posted that information earlier.

Do you really like Caldwell that much?

or do you just hate the fact that i'm right?

 

[pats1]

I said stats didn't matter when you were posting them.

How convenient. Certainly lends you credibility.

I told you Caldwell choked in the playoffs and you gave me his total number of receptions for the regular season. Which is like giving me Al Del Greco's field goal percentage when i ask for Favre's Td passes.

The stats i gave explain how Gaffney is a better playoff receiver than Caldwell. They explain how Gaffney performs better than Reche in the Biggest games. Thats what my point is. And it's the truth.

If you believe Caldwell's "chokes" against the Colts make him a worse playoff performer than Gaffney, then you can take that.

But you also believe that Gaffney's stats make him a better playoff performer than Caldwell, while Caldwell himself had better stats than Gaffney against the Colts.

You can't have it both ways.

Are you seriously trying to take a game where Caldwell had 7 catches and Gaffney 10, and another where Caldwell had 5 and Gaffney 8 and try to claim Gaffney is a better playoff receiver than Caldwell? Get a grip.

Caldwell was better in the postseason than he was in the regular season. Gaffney was worse than Caldwell in the regular season - much worse.

Figure it out.

Once again, comparing Brady and Manning to try and disprove my Caldwell point is wrong. Brady has proved he can win big games over and over.
Caldwell hasn't.

If you want to take a 3-game sample for Caldwell, fine. He performed excellently against the Jets and Chargers, including a catch that put the Pats in the AFC Championship in the first place.

That, of course, just leaves a 1-game sample. The Colts. And in that game, Caldwell outperformed both Gaffney and Caldwell's regular season average. He screwed up once, but it didn't cost the Pats the game. It's called defense (or lack thereof)...

Let's compare Manning and Brady in the same 1-game sample. Caldwell is now out of the issue. Manning goes 27/47 with 349 yards. Brady goes 21/34 with 232 yards. Manning leads his team back to win, while Brady flounders. Manning hits key passes while Brady throws one into Sanders and another into Jackson to seal the deal. Brady "choked." However, even these screw ups didn't cost the Pats the game. It's called defense (or lack thereof)...

 

[pats1]

More garbage stats from the King of Worthless Information.
How many times do i have to stress that i am talking about the playoffs?

Quit posting regular season stats.:singing:

So gaffney was "inconsistently mediocre" (doesn't fit, but whatever) in the Colts game?
Caldwell had 4 catches for 46 yards and 2 huge drops.
Gaffney had 3 catches for 37 yards and a touchdown.
Gaffney had the better game there, when it mattered most.

Manning had the better game, when it mattered most.

 

[Keegs]

WOW who ran over your dog? jeez. And no swearing please.
Now to my response.

It's not BS and yes i may be a f-ing joke. But Gaffney is better. Reche may have had better regular season stats but Gaffney only started 6 games compared to Caldwell's 14. You don't have to be Normal Einstein to see that Caldwell is obviously going to have better regular season numbers.
Lets observe there playoff performances shall we?? After all, that is when it is most important : right this way gentlemen............:singing:

hmm lets seee here....
Gaffney vs. Jets 8 rec. 104 yds
vs. SD 10 rec. 103 yds 1 td
vs. Indy 3 rec. 37 yds 1 td 0 chokes
TOTAL: 21 rec. 242 yds 2tds 0 chokes

Caldwell vs. Jets 5 rec. 50 yds
vs. SD 7 rec. 80 yds 1 td
vs. Indy 4 rec. 46 yds 2 chokes
TOTAL: 16 rec. 176 yds 1 td 2 chokes

As you can see, i am right. As usual.
Even if you take away the 2 drops that my Nana would have caught, Gaffney is still better when it MATTERS THE MOST.

I rest my case.:woohoo:

thanks and be sure to tip your waitress..

Pats1 im not even going to type it out again for you. But this is the 3rd time i've posted the playoff numbers.

How exactly Did caldwell have a better game against indy than gaffney?
He didn't, you lied.

nice try.

 

[Keegs]

Manning had the better game, when it mattered most.

I already explained time and time again that the future hall of famers Manning and Brady cannot be compared to Caldwell and Gaffney.

What are you trying to test out the "troll defense" and just type out the same garbage over and over?

what's the matter, you can't admit you are wrong?

 

[Rob0729]

More garbage stats from the King of Worthless Information.
How many times do i have to stress that i am talking about the playoffs?

Quit posting regular season stats.:singing:

So gaffney was "inconsistently mediocre" (doesn't fit, but whatever) in the Colts game?
Caldwell had 4 catches for 46 yards and 2 huge drops.
Gaffney had 3 catches for 37 yards and a touchdown.
Gaffney had the better game there, when it mattered most.

Are you getting tired of this yet?


And Gaffney's playoff performances were superior to Reche's. I posted that information earlier.

Do you really like Caldwell that much?

or do you just hate the fact that i'm right?

If you are going to consistently talk about huge drops, why won't you talk about Brady's bonehead interceptions on our two playoff losses. I would never want to bench or cut Brady, but his mistakes were far more costly than Caldwell's. In fact, neither of Caldwell's drops ended the drive or the game.

What about Troy Brown's bonehead pass interference on a play that got us a crucial first down? Or how about Bruschi getting burnt by Dallas Clark on a couple of big plays. Or Vrabel for that matter? It wasn't just Eric Alexander who got smoked by Dallas Clark in that game. How about the Pats defense allowing Joseph Addai to walk into the endzone barely touched on the Colts' last scoring drive?

We gave up 31 points in the second half and you are laying the blame of that game on Caldwell's feet as if he was the only one who blew plays. In fact, his blown plays were relatively minor to other ones. If Caldwell caught those two balls, there was still a very good chance the outcome of the game would have been the same. We scored on one of the drives anyway. So that dropped ball was irrelevant. The other one was not a guaranteed TD.