Is Brady actually choking?

[Triumph]

Ironic how things have ended up, isn't it?

Sometimes Brady looks like Bledsoe.

 

[reflexblue]

Ironic how things have ended up, isn't it?

Your sig is spot on.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Hernandez should smart enough the get out of bounds and save the TO in that situation with 26 seconds left. Branch or Welker would have been aware and gone out of bounds.

This TO screw up where time was running out happened before this season where the Pats were in the redzone and wasted 14 seconds before finally calling a TO.



I dont get why Branch was out there.

I like Branch, but hes done. Vereen should have been given a look, Slater perhaps as well.

Branch is out there because at the end of the day he is the only other receiver on the roster, not to mention the only other one they trust to do the little things the scheme calls for and not make the big mistake that flumoxes the system. Vereen might have had another spectacular day or he might have made a couple of mistakes. Same deal with Ridley last post season when Bill opted not to play him at all. Slater has been around a while and never even become a viable decoy.

Bill and the coaching staff don't trust easily. Unless they are forced to. Lloyd did just enough in fits and starts to force their hand. Although in the end he didn't do nearly enough to reward his continued targeting. He's a 50/50 proposition which on short to intermediate range targets just doesn't cut it. Welker and Hernandez in that range catch almost 70% of the passes thrown to them consistently. Which is also why is sucks so when they drop a gimme. I think in Welker's case it's due to being over targeted. He takes some god aweful hits and took one just before his drop. Hernandez just loses focus at times whether that leads to a missed connection, a drop, a penalty.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Sometimes Brady looks like Bledsoe.

He never looks like Bledsoe except to someone who forgot what Bledsoe looked like.

 

[condon84]

Brady led his team to 35+ points per game in the regular season. Yesterday, with the same cast, he led them to 13 points. Was it all his fault? No way, but he deserves as much blame as he does praise when they have success.

 

[IllegalContact]

Sometimes Brady looks like Bledsoe.

what the hell is this?

 

[colttales]

Dare we say he played Manning-esqe? The bottom line is he and Manning both choked this year. Sometimes you meet the team that has your number. The Ravens closed out my Colts at home and then went on to beat two top tier QB's ironically using a Jim Caldwell led offense. Tis a sad day indeed since I was looking forward to Peyton Manning vs Tom Brady this year in the AFCFG.

 

[Colorado]

A dominant defense = clutch. Funny how the second Brady's defense evaporated so did his clutchness. 95% of what people refer to as clutch is not, in fact, clutchness. Had Manning ever had a dominant defense, or, in the very least, were his defense to not to give up 70 yard bombs with 30 seconds remaining, he would be referred to as clutch as well.

Had this game occurred prior to 2005, Brady's defense would have scored on a pick six at 13-7 and Brady would have received all the credit for the win. It's a little more difficult these days.

 

[New England Seahawks]

Times like these serve as a reminder that this is a TEAM game, and winning postseason games and superbowl rings is a TEAM accomplishment. The Patriots' recent postseason failures have as much to do with Tom Brady "choking" as the three superbowl-winning seasons had to do with Tom Brady being "clutch".

An example of choking would be playing well for three quarters, and then making game-changing bad throws toward the end of the game when the outcome is on the line that leads to your team's loss. I don't recall seeing any evidence of Brady doing such a thing in this, or any other recent postseason game.

 

[fair catch fryar]

A dominant defense = clutch. Funny how the second Brady's defense evaporated so did his clutchness. 95% of what people refer to as clutch is not, in fact, clutchness. Had Manning ever had a dominant defense, or, in the very least, were his defense to not to give up 70 yard bombs with 30 seconds remaining, he would be referred to as clutch as well.

Had this game occurred prior to 2005, Brady's defense would have scored on a pick six at 13-7 and Brady would have received all the credit for the win. It's a little more difficult these days.

Bingo. I've been saying this for a while. I don't think Brady has lost his "clutch" anymore than he has become a "choker". If anything the statistics tell us he has gotten better as a QB. If by some miraculous chance BB gets lucky in the draft and lands some rookie studs that can step in record 15 sacks and/or pull in 10 interceptions and the Pats D becomes something that other teams fear, then Brady will keep being put into these situations and more times than not end up on the losing end. There are some really good young QBs coming up in this league and it's only gonna get tougher to consistently play yourself into the AFCCG. I'm not as optimistic about our chances anymore. Father Time is not our side anymore.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't think he was in a fog. I think he realized immediately they were not going to get to the line in time to clock it and have time to run another play. Ergo the TO became moot. Then you call it with just enough time left for the FG to clear the crossbar. Belichick said in the post game that the plan was to save the TO but they miscalculated on the time it would take to get the ball set and get next snap off. Once that became clear they had no choice but to call it and kick the FG. Probably could have used the 20 or so seconds they allowed to run off before the 2 minute, which again was not Brady's call. A pattern of odd clock management has emerged this season and that's not Brady's call. My guess is it's Ernie's. Has some risk reward data about teams scoring late because they got the ball back with just enough time to do some damage. This team has now allowed that data to influence how they run and effectively limit their own offense and it's opportunities to score.

Given the field position it was clear the plan was to take their time (letting the 2min run down) to not leave any time on the clock. At 2 min they were on the +43 with 3 timeouts. The problem after that they ran the ball 3 straight times (including the Brady scramble) so used one time out to be at the 27 with 44 seconds left. A minute 16 to go 16 yards and burn a timeout was the problem. What followed was what you get exposed to with that.
The run down to 2 minutes at the +43 with 3 TOs was smart. The next 3 plays calls were not. (Together, not necessarily individually)

 

[Tunescribe]

A dominant defense = clutch. Funny how the second Brady's defense evaporated so did his clutchness. 95% of what people refer to as clutch is not, in fact, clutchness. Had Manning ever had a dominant defense, or, in the very least, were his defense to not to give up 70 yard bombs with 30 seconds remaining, he would be referred to as clutch as well.

Had this game occurred prior to 2005, Brady's defense would have scored on a pick six at 13-7 and Brady would have received all the credit for the win. It's a little more difficult these days.

Good observation (and welcome to the board). Too often these days, Brady is saddled with compensating for the defense's deficiencies in ways he never had to during the Super Bowl years.

 

[Texxx]

Teams finally know how to play against Brady; they know his strengths and weaknesses well. That's the disadvantage of being a highly experienced QB. I don't think Brady has lost much as a QB, it's just that our opponents have a deeper understanding of how he plays, what he does well, and what he does not do so well.

I wouldn't say that at all. It's just the Ravens know Brady very well and the Ravens have a long pattern of playing him well. They did this in the last AFC championship game and had the Patriots beaten, but the Pats got lucky in that game.

Brady is still icing the league. Hell, he was the MVP this season and anyone who would question Brady as being a choker isn't much of a football observer if you ask me. Was anyone questioning Brady as a choker before this game? If not, then how does one game make him that?? Brady blew teams away all season long. It's just that hard to win it every season. The Patriots still need a better wideout to make plays for them as Lloyd never seemed to be good enough to make those extra plays in my eyes. The problem isn't Brady though.

 

[Uncle Meat]

Absolutely NOT.

I've said this several times and I'll say it again:

This is the farthest thing from an excuse, but the Patriots have been purely UNLUCKY.
From the Tyree catch in 07/08, to a Welker drop in the SuperBowl last year. Had those 2 PLAYS gone the other way, you could EASILY argue the Patriots would have won the game, and Tom Brady would have 5 SuperBowls.

The injuries have also been unbelievably bad. Gronk last year of course (IMO we'd won the SuperBowl with him healthy. That INT definitely wouldn't happen) And then Gronk & Talib this year once again when it matters most (they are top 3 guys on their respective sides of the ball) We can only go so far with our top guys out of the game, and constantly having to adjust.

EDIT: And did you NOT watch the SuperBowl last year? He set a record for 16 straight completions, and was within 1 play of winning after taking the worst defense to ever make it to the SuperBowl. WRs and no-name guys playing on our D last year! He also has the most yards in playoff history and most wins in playoff history. He's simply lacked help. Montana had how many hall of famers alongside him? 5-7? How many do you think Brady will have had after his career is done? Maybe 3 including Moss and his own coach?!

You want to talk about having bad luck after the tuck rule, and the Panthers kicking the ball out of bounds on a kickoff in a Super Bowl that probably would have went into overtime. Now, THAT'S luck on your part, especially the tuck rule, which they didn't give to Manning in the playoffs this year, BTW

Another way to look at it is that the other teams made plays. For example, the Ravens tipping Brady's pass at the line was not "bad luck." That was the Ravens making a play...same goes for the Tyree catch. The other team made a play.

What you described is the essence of making an excuse...not the "farthest thing from an excuse." How do you think the Ravens felt after losing to the Patriots in last year's Championship game? They had the winning touchdown DROPPED at the end...Lee Evans did not hold onto the ball like he should have...if he'd brought that ball in and held onto it for dear life, no way it gets swatted out of his hands IMO. Then the Ravens miss a 32-yard fieldgoal to tie it up and sent it into over time. Was that good luck the Pats were able to make it to the Super Bowl LAST YEAR?

And EVERY team has injuries every single year to some key guys...everyone. The Giants lost ALL of their starting CBs pretty much before the year started last year, for example.

Lastly, Brady has won Super Bowls with no-name receivers. In this game, Brady had more weapons at his disposal than most teams. This year, the Patriots finally had a running game. Brady gets more protection than most QBs too...it's ridiculous how much time he has sometimes. The Patriots had the #1 offense in the league this year, and you still want to complain? The Patriots scored a ridiculous 557 points in the regular season this year. One guy did not do that, even though Brady was the catalyst.

Face it, the Patriots were just outplayed in this game. That's all there is to say about it.

 

[PatsSweFan]

He certainly wasn't clutch.
We simply didn't play good enough on 3rd downs, so many mistakes, and pre Ridley fumble it was down to basic plays we couldn't execute. Brady played good but made some key mistakes and so did receivers, o-line and RB's.

Our offensive possession;
3-2-NE42 - Welker drops a 35yard pass
3-2-BAL12- hurry up and Ridley run for no gain (Field Goal)
3-9-BAL35- Lloyd stumble and drop
3-2-BAL45 - Poor play from Brady, coverage on Lloyd good..while Woodhead was open for a possible first down.
Touchdown
Field Goal (time out disaster)
3-8-BAL34 - Welker drop.
3-2-NE33 - Pass completion to woodhead, flag on Solder. 3-12-NE23 - Poor pass from Brady behind Hernandez.

From that point, we had four turnovers
1-10-NE39 - Ridley fumble.
4-4-BAL19 - On downs
1-10-BAL24 - ball deflected, interception
2-10-BAL22 - Game pretty much over, Interception in end zone.

 

[Fencer]

You claim there is no such thing as "clutchness" then try to claim that "choking" exists. They are either both accepted as ideas or they don't "exist". I believe in both and I also believe Brady has both qualities. I guess he is only human after all.

Any athlete or soldier who is paralyzed by fear is choking. So,is any who, due to jitters, loses precision. All of the above are known to happen.


But if we look for clutchness that is more substantive than not-choking, neither the logical arguments nor the direct evidence for its existence are as clear.

 

[Fencer]

I gotta admit, the arguments exonerating Brady from the time management issues at the end of the first half are pretty reasonable. Somebody didn't get lined up as quickly as Brady & BB expected, but it wasn't Brady. And AHern's blunder the play before was bigger, because the correct decision was simple to make (as we eventually saw in Q4, where guys were great about getting out of bounds).

 

[Ring 6]

Any athlete or soldier who is paralyzed by fear is choking. So,is any who, due to jitters, loses precision. All of the above are known to happen.


But if we look for clutchness that is more substantive than not-choking, neither the logical arguments nor the direct evidence for its existence are as clear.

You are really reaching here.

 

[Fencer]

You are really reaching here.

I was assuming people had some basic knowledge of sports and physiology.

I apologize for the error.

 

[Tunescribe]

I was assuming people had some basic knowledge of sports and physiology.

I apologize for the error.

You really should apologize for your premise behind this ludicrous thread. It was a reach from the get-go.