Interesting Matchup - Stephon Gilmore vs. Alshon Jeffrey

[patfanken]

I would say putting Butler on Smith is a mistake unless they devote 2 guys to cover Agholor. Rowe can't stay with the quick moves of Agholor. Butler will probably have issues doing it as well but Rowe just is not up to that challenge.

I say put Bulter on Agholor and you live with what Smith does to you. If Smith beats you then so be it.

You don't put your 2nd best CB on their 3rd best WR. Maybe the Rowe of last year but this years Rowe has just been not good enough.

IMO their weapons you need to stop in order are #1/2 Ertz/Jeffrey, Agholor and Ajayi. Since Foles has come in he has gone to Ajayi a ton in the passing game and I think is something the Pats need to be aware of.

After that more than even Smith I worry about Corey Clement. He is just the kind of player who can attack the Patriots where they are weakest with those little dump offs to a quick RB. I think if Philly has their way he will pull a "Grant" on our team.

The key word here is "erase". Part of the way you can "dictate" to the offense is to know where they are likely to throw the ball.

Tell me, BD, if YOU saw Gilmore on Jeffery, Butler on Smith and Rowe on Agholor, where would you throw the ball. That's right to Agholor of course. But if you and I know, so do the Pats.

Remember I said the key to putting the more physical and bigger Rowe on Agholor is to beat him up. Make it tough for him to release. Bang him on the crossers. Now do I think he can keep up with him for long periods of time. No I don't either. But that's how you can dictate where you think the ball will go and then defend it.

I don't think Foles sees the field well enough to be able to notice the single high FS slipping down to jump Agholor's route as he finally breaks loose from Rowe.

Foles will see the most advantageous match up (Rowe/Agholor) See him break free, and then throw the ball....RIGHT into the FS's coverage. Because we know where the ball is going to go before the throw.

Just a thought

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Gilmore is on Jeffrey all game. He is clearly our #1 CB right now and is playing like it.

I am just talking about every other match up besides that one is all.

jeffery is too much of a one trick pony, y
to waste on gilmore.

we disagree

agoholor is superior to jeffery, imo

 

[BobDigital]

The key word here is "erase". Part of the way you can "dictate" to the offense is to know where they are likely to throw the ball.

Tell me, BD, if YOU saw Gilmore on Jeffery, Butler on Smith and Rowe on Agholor, where would you throw the ball. That's right to Agholor of course. But if you and I know, so do the Pats.

Remember I said the key to putting the more physical and bigger Rowe on Agholor is to beat him up. Make it tough for him to release. Bang him on the crossers. Now do I think he can keep up with him for long periods of time. No I don't either. But that's how you can dictate where you think the ball will go and then defend it.

I don't think Foles sees the field well enough to be able to notice the single high FS slipping down to jump Agholor's route as he finally breaks loose from Rowe.

Foles will see the most advantageous match up (Rowe/Agholor) See him break free, and then throw the ball....RIGHT into the FS's coverage. Because we know where the ball is going to go before the throw.

Just a thought

That is an interesting thought. It is certainly something worth considering depending on how they want to play it. It just isn't the first idea that came to my mind of how to deal with their offense. It could be effective though but I am worried such a move will allow Foles to get into a rhythm.

I would agree if they are looking for an interception or 2 such an risk/reward idea would certainly have it's merits.

 

[BobDigital]

jeffery is too much of a one trick pony, y
to waste on gilmore.

we disagree

agholor is superior to jeffery, imo

Fair enough. There is a reasonable argument to be made. But Butler is way to short for Jeffrey and I wonder if Rowe could keep up with him. There are a lot of interesting options. Maybe you put Rowe on Ertz with Chung to help.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Gilmore has been on lockdown...I like the matchup

 

[Gronk]

Lots of good ideas here....I think the answer, esp if they think Foles can be fooled, is to attack with a good combination of all these ideas and mix and match to keep him guessing and hopefully force some 3 and outs and give the O the ball to build a lead.

Butler chasing Agholor across the field is the kind of thing he’s been a step behind on all season, against lesser players - left alone in that matchup too often he could (read: will) get smoked. And they COULD lose a couple 50/50 balls in the Jeffrey/Gilmore matchup, so he needs help too. I think Rowe can bump/body Jeffrey and run underneath him if he’s got help over the top, but I wouldn’t choose to put him there man on man. Same for Butler. The Eagles choices of formations will determine some of this of course. If I was the Eagles I wouldn’t necessarily opt for packages that forces all of Gilmore/Butler/Rowe/DMac/Harmon/Chung on the field, I’d rather try to get more of our LBs out there to try to run with their TEs and RBs.

The matchup between the Eagles WRs/TEs and NE secondary should be fun to watch. Hopefully more fun for us. Sometimes that takes until the 4th quarter. If they could sneak a couple picks early and give us the comfortable close of the game our hearts all could use, that’d be cool. So I’ll get ready for the nailbiting.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

ooooohhh....I'd hate to be called "twisted" by some insecure Millennial on a board.

Devastating!

Nice counter to my opinion. Rowe looked real good 10 yards behind Schuster-Smith on Patricia's god awful man coverage call at the end of the Pitt game. Case closed.

At least Butler will run after someone and almost catch them (see SD game when he almost caught Gordon on his 70 yard TD run).

And, I like Rowe, but only against the larger WRs.

Smith would dust Rowe.

Rusty???

You do understand Butler is a 4.50-4.60 guy and Rowe is a natural 4.40 guy, right?

They've run before and it's evident on tape.

 

[Vatahala]

1. How much film will BB and Company watch this week to learn how a former All-Pro 27-2 QB morphed into a journeyman back-up?

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Gilmore has been on lockdown...I like the matchup

me too..gilmore is our best cb and agoholor is their best wr. pretty obvious to me..

jeffery is way too big for butler

so, that leaves butler on the veteran smith

 

[RIpats88]

me too..gilmore is our best cb and agoholor is their best wr. pretty obvious to me..

jeffery is way too big for butler

so, that leaves butler on the veteran smith

so Gilmore-Agoholor, Butler-smith, Jeffrey-Rowe with a safety over the top?

 

[patfanken]

That is an interesting thought. It is certainly something worth considering depending on how they want to play it. It just isn't the first idea that came to my mind of how to deal with their offense. It could be effective though but I am worried such a move will allow Foles to get into a rhythm.

I would agree if they are looking for an interception or 2 such an risk/reward idea would certainly have it's merits.

Well that's the thing in defending today's complex passing offenses. There IS no one way to do it. If you are going to have a chance on defense in a day when mediocre QB's are completing 60% of their passes and under 300 passing yds is a bad day; you HAVE to be able to present multiple looks to the offense. So, in the end, we could both end up being right.

 

[n6249c]

I think Rowe can handle Jeffrey, that lets Gilmore cover Agholor and Butler on Smith seems like an acceptable matchup. Chung on Ertz seems likely, Flowers and Van Noy can cover the backs, or even James Harrison (although I'd rather see him taking away the R from RPO). I'm really not worried about the matchups in the secondary, more concerned about the pass rush being able to both contain and pressure Foles.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

so Gilmore-Agoholor, Butler-smith, Jeffrey-Rowe with a safety over the top?

I like Rowe on jeffrey

 

[Chris Stevenson]

so Gilmore-Agoholor, Butler-smith, Jeffrey-Rowe with a safety over the top?

That's how I am seeing it, but obviously BB will be doing his tinkering. On paper, that's how it would appear to me, though.

Rowe is inferior to Gilmore, and I like Rowe. If we had Rowe herein SB 49, maybe they would have been faster to put him on Matthews of Seattle or not been so slow to put Browner on him? Anyway, this seems like an obvious choice for Jeffery with some help to make sure any stretch plays aren't available. That will allow BB/Patricia to play downhill and push everything towards the line of scrimmage.

I am a little surprised people are holding Jeffery in such high regard. The guy looks the part, but for a top 10 pick, Chicago traded him for a reason. Talk about a bad draft pick by Chucago getting big eyes because of what a bigger WR did in college. The guy is not that good, and if you're just looking at last week's game, that's not really representative of what he does, week to week. Agolhor scares me the most by far after watching Philly this year.

Smith is crafty and and has experience, but it's nothing Butler hasn't seen before. And, I am not buying this "Smith has blazing speed" routine. No one has ever said that about Torrey Smith before.

That's not what his game is.

 

[Sciz]

And, I am not buying this "Smith has blazing speed" routine. No one has ever said that about Torrey Smith before.

That’s literally the exact wording used in the Globe a few years ago before Smith’s first playoff game against the Patriots.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/01/22/patriots-keys-playoff-victory-ravens/lL3FVlbiTESF905KqmKxOI/story.html

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Well that's the thing in defending today's complex passing offenses. There IS no one way to do it. If you are going to have a chance on defense in a day when mediocre QB's are completing 60% of their passes and under 300 passing yds is a bad day; you HAVE to be able to present multiple looks to the offense. So, in the end, we could both end up being right.

One thing that does concern me is it's clear BB has conceded more man coverage this year to appease Gilmore.

I have absolutely no idea why some guys struggle so much with zone concepts, other than not caring or not grasping where to be based on how the play unfolds, but it's just not a big deal.

If you're playing too much man, it's sort of why those swing passes we saw on Sunday, work against you.

The other obvious massive screw up with this was that play in the Pitt game. What on earth was Patricia thinking calling man there? That's a clear zone, maybe a prevent/keep it all in front of you situation, and we were in man again, catering to Gilmore.

This kind of cannot happen in the SB.

It's too obvious and it hurts the D. It also hurts the defense on the front 7 when playing against the run.

Again, I have no idea what it is with these elite CBs and their attitude towards playing zone.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

lets win it for ND!

 

[Chris Stevenson]

That’s literally the exact wording used in the Globe a few years ago before Smith’s first playoff game against the Patriots.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/01/22/patriots-keys-playoff-victory-ravens/lL3FVlbiTESF905KqmKxOI/story.html

That was 5 years ago and it comes out of the Globe. No offense, there are NUMEROUS people in Boston who work for the papers or talk radio that are not good football people.

Torrey Smith is not Mike Wallace, for example.

I would use the "blazing speed" topic to talk about a younger MIke Wallace or even now, a Brandin Cooks.

Cooks would dust Torrey Smith in a sprint, for example.

If you listen to Felger and Mazz, the mock people like Kyle Van Noy and run around saying the Pats LBS are "putrid" and things like that. I wouldn't go by clueless analysts' comments.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Lots of good ideas here....I think the answer, esp if they think Foles can be fooled, is to attack with a good combination of all these ideas and mix and match to keep him guessing and hopefully force some 3 and outs and give the O the ball to build a lead.

Butler chasing Agholor across the field is the kind of thing he’s been a step behind on all season, against lesser players - left alone in that matchup too often he could (read: will) get smoked. And they COULD lose a couple 50/50 balls in the Jeffrey/Gilmore matchup, so he needs help too. I think Rowe can bump/body Jeffrey and run underneath him if he’s got help over the top, but I wouldn’t choose to put him there man on man. Same for Butler. The Eagles choices of formations will determine some of this of course. If I was the Eagles I wouldn’t necessarily opt for packages that forces all of Gilmore/Butler/Rowe/DMac/Harmon/Chung on the field, I’d rather try to get more of our LBs out there to try to run with their TEs and RBs.

The matchup between the Eagles WRs/TEs and NE secondary should be fun to watch. Hopefully more fun for us. Sometimes that takes until the 4th quarter. If they could sneak a couple picks early and give us the comfortable close of the game our hearts all could use, that’d be cool. So I’ll get ready for the nailbiting.

We'll lose, if it "takes until the 4th qtr".

 

[patfanken]

One thing that does concern me is it's clear BB has conceded more man coverage this year to appease Gilmore. .

Chris, you lose all credibility when you have the hubris to make the above statement. This is the kind of 'connect the random dot' thinking I would expect of Felger or every BSPN mediot (except Bruschi).

What in the wide world of sports allows to think BB has conceded ANYTHING to any player, let alone Stephon Gilmore.

The cold hard facts are that the way the rules are set up, man to man coverage is about the ONLY way teams can think to stop today's complex passing offenses on a consistent basis. Zone D's have their place, but GOOD QB's will eventually figure them out. Just look at the last 2 weeks.

BTW- If you want to get a good break down of the Jags game, Matt Chatham's latest was excellent. He thought the Pats had openings earlier in the game to put up points but it was THEIR poor execution that killed drives, NOT the great Jags Defense. I think its called "football for football podcast"