In BB We Trust

[maverick4]

Re: Giving Bill Belichick Too Much Blame and/or Credit

i dont know why you make point everyday about BB being absolved from what his coords do.

I'm far from trying to absolve Belichick from any blame or credit.

I'm showing that his coordinators are worthy of portions of credit and blame, that they aren't merely robots following something Belichick told them exactly to do, in excruciating detail, for every possible situation.

Ask Pioli, Dimitroff, Mangini, McDaniels, Crennel, Weiss how much micro managing Belichick did, if they made any decisions or insights themselves, and if they were worthy of the jobs they got after working for Bill.

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Giving Bill Belichick Too Much Blame and/or Credit

if micromanagement means decidng the weekly gameplans and schemes -not every play calls-,conducting situational practices etc then yes ..you can call it micromanagement although its not IMO.
if he is overruling all his coords and telling them to change the play everytime thats micromanagement which is isnt doing.if he is teaching the players techniques on the sidelines with a whiteboard , thats not micromanangement either but he is still involved and responsbile for what the players do.

You will have to have that argument with AndyJohnson.

 

[maverick4]

I am saying that the planning, philosophy, schemes, etc are Bill Belichick. That gameplans and playcalling are not made by coordinators without his approval or involvement, as is done in some places. If we do it on the football field it is what Bill Belichick wanted done, is what I am saying. .

Once again, you're basically playing earmuffs to how you're wrong about Belichick's supposedly god-like influence on every aspect of the team.

If we do it on the football field, it doesn't mean Belichick wanted it done that way every single time.

Why do you keep acting as if his coordinators have ZERO power or decision-making ability over their respective units?

 

[oldskool138]

Re: Giving Bill Belichick Too Much Blame and/or Credit

2) BB has a headset on to listen to the chatter between OC/DC/upstairs and can overrule at any time, but does NOT call plays, otherwise he'd be covering his lips when he talks.

Okay, so how many plays on average does he overrule in a game?

 

[SVN]

Re: Giving Bill Belichick Too Much Blame and/or Credit

I'm far from trying to absolve Belichick from any blame or credit.

I'm showing that his coordinators are worthy of portions of credit and blame, that they aren't merely robots following something Belichick told them exactly to do, in excruciating detail, for every possible situation.

Ask Pioli, Dimitroff, Mangini, McDaniels, Crennel, Weiss how much micro managing Belichick did, if they made any decisions or insights themselves, and if they were worthy of the jobs they got after working for Bill.

Well..i havent seen you giving them any worthy portions of credit much...only blame them all the time and posting that bb is not micromanaging and not responsible for what is happening . Two different things really. If you think o'brien came up with this brilliant idea of the no huddle with boards for the jet game and BB just said "thats a cool idea,why dont you try it and see if it works." then i think you are mistaken.
BB maybe not call every play but the general layout of the game/the scheme/the personnel is all him. Otherwise he wouldnt be able to explain why they didnt screen much during the jets game. He knows what they are doing what is happening and has been credit as a master of adjustments . If it was just the coords then they wouldve all built successful nfl resumes like crennel and mangini.

 

[Patspsycho]

Again micro-manager was not my term.

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson
Everything I have ever seen says that BB is absolutely a control freak, totally a micromanager, and involved in everything.

This is a contradiction.

 

[maverick4]

Everything I have ever seen says that BB is absolutely a control freak, totally a micromanager, and involved in everything.

Just wanted to re-paste this since the OP has self-deception over his own lies and claims.

 

[maverick4]

Again micro-manager was not my term..

Re-pasting this since the OP has a problem with consistency and self-deception.

 

[Ring 6]

Once again, you're basically playing earmuffs to how you're wrong about Belichick's supposedly god-like influence on every aspect of the team.

If we do it on the football field, it doesn't mean Belichick wanted it done that way every single time.

Why do you keep acting as if his coordinators have ZERO power or decision-making ability over their respective units?

Because they are carrying out what he has trained them to do.
I am not saying he does their job for them.
I am saying he trains them, explains to them what he wants, monitors what they are doing, and corrects what he sees wrong.
Like any good manager in any organiation in the world.

You don't seem to understand that BB LIKES the spread offense, and the shotgun. It is consistent with what he wants to do for us to throw a lot, and he feels we do it better from the shotgun. BB did not want to blitz a lot against the Jets.
If either of those were wrong, he would have gone to his employee and told them that they are not doing their job correctly.
This isnt a matter of if he and the coordinators disagree, its the coordinators job to make the decisions. The coordinators are charged with doing their job BBs WAY. His job is to make train them, monitor them, and correct them.

 

[maverick4]

Re: Giving Bill Belichick Too Much Blame and/or Credit

Well..i havent seen you giving them any worthy portions of credit much...

BB maybe not call every play but the general layout of the game/the scheme/the personnel is all him.

1. Read page 1 of this thread, it's clear you didn't about giving credit to coordinators.


2. Belichick goes over every game with his assistants, likely about what the opposing teams weaknesses are, how to attack them, etc. He isn't telling the coordinator to barely blitz against a rookie QB, or use shot gun every single play and pass all the time. It's also not his style to ever criticize his coordinators that anyone publicly knows about, so silence over past games does not mean he was in support of it.

 

[maverick4]

Why are you now pretending you weren't just caught in a lie?

Read the previous page. I know you did and purposely ignored it, but others can see that you're just pulling things out of your arse on the fly right now.

 

[maverick4]

You don't seem to understand that BB LIKES the spread offense, and the shotgun. It is consistent with what he wants to do for us to throw a lot, and he feels we do it better from the shotgun. BB did not want to blitz a lot against the Jets.
If either of those were wrong, he would have gone to his employee and told them that they are not doing their job correctly.

Based on what evidence? He didn't do diddly to Mangini when the defense was being managed horribly in 2005. Please cite ONE INSTANCE of Belichick going to an assistant and being a micro-manager dictator to them, in his 9 years as head coach.

 

[SVN]

Re: Giving Bill Belichick Too Much Blame and/or Credit

1. Read page 1 of this thread, it's clear you didn't about giving credit to coordinators.


2. Belichick goes over every game with his assistants, likely about what the opposing teams weaknesses are, how to attack them, etc. He isn't telling the coordinator to barely blitz against a rookie QB, or use shot gun every single play and pass all the time. It's also not his style to ever criticize his coordinators that anyone publicly knows about, so silence over past games does not mean he was in support of it.

1.I have read enough posts on this whole board from you about mcd/pees/obrien to know that you think they suck all the time.
2.yup. he waits 4 quarters to go inside and then ask the coords about why they went no huddle and why they didnt call a blitz. after they lost the game and let them do what they want on the field. sure.if he is doing this as you say then he is even worse. I dont believe so.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Giving Bill Belichick Too Much Blame and/or Credit

How many of these types of threads are we going to have?

Belichick is the head coach. If something isn't working right, it is his job to correct it by telling his coordinators to fix it, or as he has done in the past (well, at least rumored with Mangini), start calling the plays himself. If a coordinator shows certain tendencies that he doesn't think is right, it is Belichick's job to correct them or get rid of the coordinator. He isn't responsible for individual play calls per say, but he does have control over the overall gameplan and any weekly tendencies.

Since this is thread for a way to continue to bash McDaniels, I will use him for an example. If McDaniels overrelied too much on shotgun to the team's detriment, I blame Belichick more than McDaniels because as head coach it is Belichick's job to recognize what is working and not working with the team and make sure it is fixed.

I look at it like a business. When a company flounders, the shareholders don't absolve the President or CEO because a VP of a certain division screws up. The shareholders blame the President or CEO and rightfully so. Take Chrysler for example. Chrysler had divisions that were fairly profitable and others that were seriously draining the company. I blame the president of Chrysler for that because it is his job to recognize that one of his divisions is draining the company and either make them find a way to fix it or shut them down.

So if a single play doesn't work or a single gameplan doesn't work, it isn't neccessarily Belichick's fault. But if it is an ongoing thing that isn't corrected, the blame is primarily Belichick's. Belichick gives his coordinators a certain level of autonomy, but he also holds them accountable. If his coordinators are accountable, it means that Belichick needs to make them make changes when things don't continue to work.

 

[Ring 6]

This is a contradiction.

Read the post I waqs responding to:
I used 'micro-manager' in response to it being used by Maverick, hence 'not my word'. The purpose of that statement being that I didnt chose the word and bring it into the discussion, someone else did, and I would probably have used one that better described what i was saying, because micro-manager is a poor word that is misunderstood to begin with.

Originally Posted by maverick4
That's not even the main issue though.

Belichick, like ANY other head coach in the league, isn't on top of every single thing his team does. It's impossible, there's too much to do. He delegates much of it to assistants.

Belichick isn't a mico-manager, though some here try to paint him that way.

Trying to give all blame or credit to Belichick the head coach, is as silly as saying Belichick didn't have any influence when he was rinning rings for Bill Parcells as the Giants coordinator.

 

[maverick4]

Re: Giving Bill Belichick Too Much Blame and/or Credit

I look at it like a business. When a company flounders, the shareholders don't absolve the President or CEO because a VP of a certain division screws up. The shareholders blame the President or CEO and rightfully so.

See, almost all the posters here have absolute confidence in Belichick, including myself. It doesn't mean that it's taboo or inappropriate to point out clear problems with the team right now, which are often the direct responsibility of the coordinators.

You keep talking about how it's ultimately all about Belichick. The guy has NEVER fired a coordinator of his. He believes in coaching up his own assistants. The fact that he isn't publicly firing or criticizing his staff, doesn't mean that there isn't something wrong which is not his direct fault.

 

[Ring 6]

Just wanted to re-paste this since the OP has self-deception over his own lies and claims.

Um, no. I just pasted in the post by you that first used the term, which is pasted in to the respone where I used it for the first time.
Now, wouldn't it be deceptive for you to claim I was lying when I said it was my word, when you know you used it first. Acutally you probably didnt know that, because I had to look back, and was doubting my memory before it proved accurate, so I'm just making a point, but lighten up. This isnt a matter of agreeing or insulting. I think your point of view is incorrect. I think you are one-sided in what you see and dont see and ignore what doesnt support your belief. That doesnt make you a liar, a jerk, or an *********.

 

[apple strudel]

Re: Giving Bill Belichick Too Much Blame and/or Credit

If something isn't working right, it is his job to correct it ....

Pretty much.

 

[Ring 6]

Why are you now pretending you weren't just caught in a lie?

Read the previous page. I know you did and purposely ignored it, but others can see that you're just pulling things out of your arse on the fly right now.

I think you owe me an apology. Especially since it was YOUR word.

 

[maverick4]

Re: Giving Bill Belichick Too Much Blame and/or Credit

mcd/pees/obrien to know that you think they suck all the time.

This is very interesting. First of all it tells me you're too lazy to even read the first page of a thread.

Second, it's true I do give more CREDIT and blame to the coordinators or personnel staff who work for Belichick. I don't consider Belichick a superhuman, he's merely the best HC who delegates a lot.

It's funny how hypocritical you are. People like you love to give tons of credit to Weiss, McDaniels, Crennel, Pioli, and yet any time something goes wrong it's all Belichick's fault.