PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

If Vontae or Jenkins are Around at 23?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hell yes Jenkins would be a great addition to the team, take him at 23 and draft the best available pass rusher at 34.
 
Whatever you're smoking, I want some--and the quality seems to be getting better and better as we approach the actual draft.

Barwin is a HUGE risk at 23; Jenkins is the closest to a sure thing future pro bowler as anyone in the draft. With the stellar Hobbs as our #1 CB and FA in 2010, plus nothing but question marks on the other side (like last year) you'd pass on Jenkins for your binkie? Really is a moot point though, as no way in hell Jenkins falls to us at 23. Period.

Glad you approve.

I said that mostly in jest, as the opportunity was too good to pass up and I figured I would provoke a nice response. However, there is a grain of serious thought here.

First, I assume the FO will make their board and stick to it, regardless of what the pundits think. They didn't hesitate to take Mayo at 10 when he was rated a mid-to-late 1st rounder, Warren at 13 when he was a late 1st/2nd rounder, and Mankins at 31 when he was a 3rd round pick on most boards. And they won't hesitate to take ****** or anyone else they want if that's who they think is the best value, regardless of what big names are available.

Second, there are some legitimate concerns about Jenkins as a CB for the Pats. His 40 time is one thing, but he didn't look particularly good flipping his hips or in agility drills at the combine. If the FO doesn't like what they saw from his visit and he falls to 23, they may pass. As a safety he'd be a pure FS, and I'm not sure he would be a particularly good complement to Meriweather.

Third, they may have other prospects rated similarly and choose to pass at 23 to take someone else. Sean Smith comes to mind as one possibility. Here's what Gosselin had to say about Sean Smith yesterday:

"The NFL loves big cornerbacks who can run. That's a key reason Ohio State's Malcolm Jenkins sits atop the cornerbackback board in the 2009 draft. He's 6-0, 204 pounds and runs a 4.51 40. That gives Jenkins the chance to compete against both big and small receivers at the next level. But Sean Smith is bigger and faster than Jenkins. At 6-3, 214 pounds, he's huge by NFL cornerback standards. He also has the longest arms on the cornerback board at 34 5/8 inches. So even if he gets beat on a deep route -- he has 4.50 speed -- the arm length buys him an extra step because the quarterback still must clear his reach with the pass for a completion. Smith reminds me of Bobby Taylor, another 6-3 cornerback who entered the NFL in the second round. He became a Pro Bowler at Philadelphia and teamed with Troy Vincent earlier this decade to give the Eagles a formidable cornerback tandem. Smith is leaving his senior season on the table at Utah to turn pro early. He was an All-Mountain West selection last season with his five interceptions. Size doesn't slide very far on draft day at any position."

Smith actually looked more fluid with better hips than Jenkins at the combine. And he may have a higher ceiling. And he may be a better complement to Meriweather at S than Jenkins. May. And he'll probably go in the 2nd round.

I don't think Jenkins falls to 23, and I don't think we pass if he does. And I think he'll be excellent. But I'm not 100% convinced, and if the FO sees something to make them pass then it's fine with me. IBWT. That's all.
 
2) I think Davis gets a bad rap from the press because of his brother, and has a greater chance of turning into an impact player. Yes, he's been a bit arrogant and resistant to coaching. Yes, he's had a few issues. Yes, he's inconsistent. But he's also very young (only twenty, I believe), and seems like he's learning from his brother's mistakes. Let's judge the person, not the aggregate of his past or the specter of his kin.

At one point I said I thought Davis was suffering from a case of "Reverse Manning Effect" -- cast in his brother's tarnishing glow. But since then, there have been more and more reports that Vontae is earning his own kind of question marks separate from the workout warrior label. Ever since he started interviewing, you've seen a steady trickle of raised eyebrows and words like "uncoachable" and even "unstable."

So Jenkins and Davis seem like near-opposites at #23, the safest and riskiest picks.
 
If Jenkins fell to 23 I would go back the the board and stay true to My pre-draft ratings. Jenkins is probably a guy that should go before 18. I still think he will be gone. More likely a team like the Steelers would watch for him to fall-possibly moving ahead of Pat's to grab him.I do not believe Pat's would change their board the day of the draft to move up to get him. Is Jenkins worth more than Evander Hood, Alex Mack, Rey Maualuga? I don't think he is a need/value more so than an ILB or OLB.
 
Yes to Jenkins, no to Davis. I'm leery of Davis because of the reported character red flags. Haven't heard anything bad about Jenkins.

PS Yes, I like Sean Smith too. But will he play CB or S at the next level?
 
Last edited:
Grab Jenkins at #23 if he falls there even if it means passing up ****** or ********.

Davis - no.

Jenkins fit into Belichick SAFE and a producer criterion ofr a first round pick.

DAvsi is off the Pats board. How irresistable was Pacman's talent ? With what result?
 
I do not believe Pat's would change their board the day of the draft to move up to get him.

This is an important issue to address. First the facts:

NE does target players, and has traded up. BB has mentioned that in an effort to save time, pre-draft, they will attempt to find trading partners. If they do, then a trade is pre-arranged so when a targeted player slides to that slot -- the trade becomes quickly finalized.

Of course if NE's unable to find a trading partner pre-draft, then they'll start working the phones when it becomes apparent that the targeted player will be within reach of what they're willing to spend (trade value chart). And part of the overall draft management going in is, KNOWING exactly how far you'll be able to move up.

Another factor regarding draft strategy is scenarios. The Pats have their own mock of where they think each player will be selected, based on their list of other team's needs. This is a crucial element to the trade up/trade down options as they need to know if a targeted player would even reach their slot, or will they have to leapfrog another team to get that player.

Finally, there's the Pats main board. In this draft, there may or may not be anyone worthy of a trade-up in round one (according to BB). We've been speculating for months now, and we still don't KNOW who sits atop the Pats board, and certainly who a tradeup target may be. Jenkins is one who may be highly ranked by NE -- but still only one of several possibilities to consider.
 
You seem to be comparing value boards weeks before the draft with our pick. Or perhaps, you are implying that the players were high on Belichick's value board because of the fact that they were picked. If your point is that Belichick uses different sources than publicly posted mocks and value boards, that is obviously true. Belichick pays for evaluation of players that goes only to the patriots and has private interviews. Has anyone ever suggested that the patriot use public mocks or value baords or care about them?

MAYO
Most had Mayo in the 10-20 range by draft day. Most congratulated the patriots on the pick at the end of Saturday, one even predicting that he would be the DROY. Belichick wasn't exactly reaching in the mids of the pundits.

WARREN
Belichick did reach for a NEED when he drafted Warren. Is that a good thing? Belichick drafted Warren because there was an early run on top DE's and he wanted to make sure to get one. The next two picks were also DL's. If we (and the next two teams) hadn't reached, the next choice was Polamalu. Did we get better value with Warren? Should we be congratulating Belichick on this pick?

MANKINS
Mankins was a 3rd rounder? Again we're mixing early value boards with draft day reality. Mankins had moved up to be among the top guards and would have been gone in the next couple of picks.

Glad you approve.

First, I assume the FO will make their board and stick to it, regardless of what the pundits think. They didn't hesitate to take Mayo at 10 when he was rated a mid-to-late 1st rounder, Warren at 13 when he was a late 1st/2nd rounder, and Mankins at 31 when he was a 3rd round pick on most boards. And they won't hesitate to take ****** or anyone else they want if that's who they think is the best value, regardless of what big names are available.
 
Jenkins at #23. Davis... #47 should be OK.

Raji at #23 ahead of Jenkins.

But most of all : Pettigrew at #23... let's stop assuming BB is going to do something we expect. Did we expect Seymour, Graham, Warren, Wilfork (though he was falling so NO one expected that), Mankins, Watson, Merriweather, Mayo... ??? Maybe you guys did, but I didn't.
 
WARREN
Belichick did reach for a NEED when he drafted Warren. Is that a good thing? Belichick drafted Warren because there was an early run on top DE's and he wanted to make sure to get one. The next two picks were also DL's. If we (and the next two teams) hadn't reached, the next choice was Polamalu. Did we get better value with Warren? Should we be congratulating Belichick on this pick?

Many have asked why BB traded up only one slot for Warren. Word was, Chicago at #13 was open to moving down to any buyers. NE heard or knew that SD at #15 wanted one of the D-linemen, and could leapfrog the Pats at #14 to grab Warren. So with four DL off the board, moving up was a no-brainer for NE, leaving no one for SD, who ended up trading out of the round. Sound draft strategy for the Pats.

MANKINS
Mankins was a 3rd rounder? Again we're mixing early value boards with draft day reality. Mankins had moved up to be among the top guards and would have been gone in the next couple of picks.
Post draft, we received word that SF, at #33, was targeting Mankins. NE nabbed him at #32, and sure enough SF drafted an OG next.

A reach is only a reach to those who don't invest in a roster.
 
The surprises below include Graham and Watson. The others were not really surprises at the time they were picked.

If you asking which of those were predicted before the draft, I'd say only Mayo and Seymour. I don't expect to be able to pick the particular player on a particular round, just the positions and players I think we might be targeting. So, Warren wasn't predicted, but we all probably had DL high on our boards.

So your predicting Pettigrew because we aren't?

Jenkins at #23. Davis... #47 should be OK.

Raji at #23 ahead of Jenkins.

But most of all : Pettigrew at #23... let's stop assuming BB is going to do something we expect. Did we expect Seymour, Graham, Warren, Wilfork (though he was falling so NO one expected that), Mankins, Watson, Merriweather, Mayo... ??? Maybe you guys did, but I didn't.
 
What's fun is following the link to their "expert's" mocks and seeing Rob Rang didn't have NE in the April 10 mock...but he did at CBS on the 10th.
 
Last edited:
I would even trade up for Jenkins, as high as the early teens. He's going to be great.

I agree with the unanimous opinion that Vontae is persona-non-grata in Foxboro. I'm hoping someone takes him off the board to remove all question of whether we'd take him in the 2nd.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Key Questions Remain After Patriots Mini Camp: Little Margin For Error at Several Positions
Patriots News 06-14, Patriots Wrap Up Spring Workouts
Patriots Rookie Lomu Reveals “Weird” First Days at Right Tackle
Vrabel’s Goal For Christian Barmore in 2026: “Being able to finish”
MORSE: Day 3 of Patriots Mini-Camp
TRANSCRIPT: Mike Vrabel Press Conference 6/11
MORSE: Day 2 of Patriots Mini-Camp
TRANSCRIPT: Caleb Lomu Media Interview 6/10
TRANSCRIPT: Ashton Grant Press Conference 6/10
TRANSCRIPT: Drake Maye Press Conference 6/10
Back
Top