If patriots lose out, Travis Hunter could be theirs

[gobesmug]

Drafting a guy #2 in the draft so he can blanket cover Allen Lazard while Gonzalez blankets Wilson when the Patriots play the Jets is far from a no brainer. Drafting a #2 CB with the second pick in the draft is the definition of insanity.

So don’t draft a LT. How about Abdul Carter who might become an elite pass rusher in the NFL. That is far more important to this team than having two All Pro CB. If Carter becomes a 15-20 sack a year player (which is definitely possible), he will far more valuable to this team than Hunter assuming Hunter is a full time CB and part time WR and not the other way around.

Stop focusing on particular positions and focus on this team’s needs. There are plenty of players near the top of the draft (especially if they trade down). The Pats have two positions where they are definitely all set - #1 CB and QB. Hunter appears to be a redundancy to one of the two positions the Pats don’t need help.

I wouldn't be opposed to Carter. The intrigue in Hunter is his ability to play WR.

By all accounts he seems determined to play both CB and WR.

They way I look at it, if you get an elite CB that can also get 700-1000 yards as a WR, that's worth it. If he was purely a CB alone I would be far more interested in Carter or a trade back if the value is there then take Banks or Campbell.

I get it, no one has done that before in the NFL, but no one did it in college either. The dude is a potential Unicorn like Ohtani

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

You can address the oline beyond just drafting a LT regardless of talent with the first pick.

How did drafting a WR with the 2nd round pick regardless of talent work out?

This is a draft loaded with quality OT but no one special.

If this draft had Joe Alt in it, then I think just about everyone would be on board for going LT with pick #1.

If the talent difference for an OT at pick 10 and pick 40 is about the same, then why waste the pick when you have a potential All Pro talent on the board?

There is Hunter, Carter, and Graham. Maybe Johnson the CB? What other All Pro talent is in this draft?

 

[gobesmug]

The problem was NOT using a 2nd round pick or higher to draft WR, the problem is the Patriots decision-making and scouting sucks at WR.

2019 N'Keal Harry over Deebo Samuels, AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, Terry McLaurin, etc. ALL went later.
2022 Tyquan Thornton whom we released recently over George Pickens, Alec Pierce.
2024 Ja'Lynn Polk over Ladd McConkey.

We can go further back for examples but that's just recent history. WR is a premium position in the NFL now and we are the worst organization in football at drafting them. One hit in 20 years, Julian Edelman, is a history of laughable futility.

Belichick sucked at drafting WRs. And no this isn't another bash BB who is the GOAT HC of his generation. You can be the best at one facet in coaching and being a GM and suck at another.

The point is the regime behind the terrible drafts of WR is gone. Wolf doesn't have a good headstart for WR, but I don't think you avoid drafting a position altogether just because the previous guy sucked.

 

[gobesmug]

There is Hunter, Carter, and Graham. Maybe Johnson the CB? What other All Pro talent is in this draft?

Good point. Hunter, Carter or Graham would be great to walk away with. I'd be thrilled with any of the 3.

Just the potential of what Hunter can do is alluring. He could easily be bust or turn into the first NFL player to be both a pro bowl CB and pro bowl WR.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Good point. Hunter, Carter or Graham would be great to walk away with. I'd be thrilled with any of the 3.

Just the potential of what Hunter can do is alluring. He could easily be bust or turn into the first NFL player to be both a pro bowl CB and pro bowl WR.

The point is do you want one All Pro or two non-All Pros? Always pick the one All Pro like Maye and Gonzo. Trade downs seem like a good idea, but usually are not.

 

[Rob0729]

I wouldn't be opposed to Carter. The intrigue in Hunter is his ability to play WR.

By all accounts he seems determined to play both CB and WR.

They way I look at it, if you get an elite CB that can also get 700-1000 yards as a WR, that's worth it. If he was purely a CB alone I would be far more interested in Carter or a trade back if the value is there then take Banks or Campbell.

I get it, no one has done that before in the NFL, but no one did it in college either. The dude is a potential Unicorn like Ohtani

If he is playing CB, he isn’t getting anywhere close to a 1,000 yards at WR. The NFL is probably moving to 18 games in the next few years. That is almost double a college season. He will get like 10-15 snaps on offense a game at the NFL level. Again, his comp is probably a much, much better Marcus Jones.

And being able to pitch and be a DH is far less taxing than playing both ways in the NFL. And who knows how long Ohtani will be able to do both before it affects him negatively.

 

[Rob0729]

The point is do you want one All Pro or two non-All Pros? Always pick the one All Pro like Maye and Gonzo. Trade downs seem like a good idea, but usually are not.

There is no guarantee that Hunter will be an All Pro or that the player(s) that the Pats select if they trade down or select another player won’t be All Pros.

Look at where in the first round Gonzalez was drafted. If they redid the 2023 draft today, he would probably be a top 3 pick, but the Pats selected him 17th. Sixteen teams didn’t see him as an All Pro and/or decided to select a lesser player at a position of need. Some were successful and others failed.

 

[p8ryts]

There is no guarantee that Hunter will be an All Pro or that the player(s) that the Pats select if they trade down or select another player won’t be All Pros.

Look at where in the first round Gonzalez was drafted. If they redid the 2023 draft today, he would probably be a top 3 pick, but the Pats selected him 17th. Sixteen teams didn’t see him as an All Pro and/or decided to select a lesser player at a position of need. Some were successful and others failed.

One team even selected Emmanuel Forbes ahead of him and then cut him last week.

 

[Ray Ray 717]

Sorry, I do not mean equal in terms of current skill, but no one thinks Campbell or Banks has All Pro talent.

Both Campbell and Banks project better as OG than LT. That's not exactly what you want from a top 10 pick.

If a Joe Alt type LT was in this draft, that would be pick hands down

Hands down? If Calvin Johnson was sitting there at 2 and we passed up on him I would lose my ****e

Elite Wide Receivers > Left Tackles

 

[Ray Ray 717]

Drafting a guy #2 in the draft so he can blanket cover Allen Lazard while Gonzalez blankets Wilson when the Patriots play the Jets is far from a no brainer. Drafting a #2 CB with the second pick in the draft is the definition of insanity.

So don’t draft a LT. How about Abdul Carter who might become an elite pass rusher in the NFL. That is far more important to this team than having two All Pro CB. If Carter becomes a 15-20 sack a year player (which is definitely possible), he will far more valuable to this team than Hunter assuming Hunter is a full time CB and part time WR and not the other way around.

Stop focusing on particular positions and focus on this team’s needs. There are plenty of players near the top of the draft (especially if they trade down). The Pats have two positions where they are definitely all set - #1 CB and QB. Hunter appears to be a redundancy to one of the two positions the Pats don’t need help.

Once again, who will Drake Maye throw the ball to?

If we don’t vastly improve our inept wide receivers, maye has zero chance of winning more than 8 games per season

 

[lancerman]

You draft based off two things.

1. What's the floor
2. What's the ceiling.

There's no guarantees. The ideal blue chip prospect is someone whose worst case scenario is solid contributor and who has potential to be All Pro. After the first round you are sort of deciding on one or the other and then it gets to a point where they have no floor and you are just a crapshoot

 

[mgteich]

There is Hunter, Carter, and Graham. Maybe Johnson the CB? What other All Pro talent is in this draft?

Only all-pros are worth drafting?

 

[Huckleberry1]

I am talking about a true year in and year out Pro Bowler. Not a guy who got in once. I am talking a top 4-7 or 8 player at his position rather than a top 1-3. Matthew Judon is a Pro Bowl DE and not an All Pro. He never made an All Pro list. If the Pats decided to draft Carter at #3 and he turned into a Judon type pass rusher, he would be a home run pick.

Again, you can have only one CB play on an island against other team’s #1 WR at a time. That is the benefit of an All Pro CB. That is why having two is a luxury and not necessary.

Once again, we are talking about the difference between a good player and the guys who end up in the Hall of Fame., the All Pro’s.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Only all-pros are worth drafting?

In the top 10 of R1? Yes. You are confused about this?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

There is no guarantee that Hunter will be an All Pro or that the player(s) that the Pats select if they trade down or select another player won’t be All Pros.

Look at where in the first round Gonzalez was drafted. If they redid the 2023 draft today, he would probably be a top 3 pick, but the Pats selected him 17th. Sixteen teams didn’t see him as an All Pro and/or decided to select a lesser player at a position of need. Some were successful and others failed.

Rob, with a top 5 pick, the goal has to be an All Pro selection. Is there a 100 or 1000 other options? Of course, but the team has to follow the stats to try to get an All Pro.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Only all-pros are worth drafting?

Who said that?

What I’m saying is that when Matt Khalil and Aaron Donald are both on the board, and OT is the bigger need, you take Donald and find another way to address tackle that season.

Travis Hunter is clearly the best player in this draft, and the of the top 2 tackles ( Campbell and Banks) are both considered to be prospects that should go between 6-15, with the next teo( Simmons and Ersery) considered to be in the same ballpark as prospects.

To me the goal is to build a Championship team, so you do what’s best for the team long term. And I think you look at the situation come draft day and follow that basic rule.

If they end up at 2 then try to get the Raiders 1st next year and their second this year. Then at 6 take the best OT on the board, then trade back up into the first for Luther Burden WR. Addressing both significant needs, and getting another high first for next year.

If they end up at 3 then take Travis Hunter, then trade up into the first for Simmons or Ersery.

If they end up around 6 take the best OT, then once again trade back for Burden.

It all comes down to the situation, I’m not fixated on any one scenario, just what’s best given their situation. What I don’t believe in is overdrafting an OT with their first pick no matter what. Campbell is now being projected by many as a guard in the NFL, and Banks is having a so so season.

And I guarantee that everyone here will be screaming bloody murder if Wolf drafts Campbell and he can’t play tackle, or Banks and he turns out to be a bust. So be smart about it, not hyper focused on need at any cost.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

There is Hunter, Carter, and Graham. Maybe Johnson the CB? What other All Pro talent is in this draft?

jeanty

 

[KCSVEN]

There is Hunter, Carter, and Graham. Maybe Johnson the CB? What other All Pro talent is in this draft?

The only blue chip prospect is Hunter,
Everyone else has question marks in whether they end up making a second contract,
Campbell as a guard and Jeanty are next most likely to succeed.
Carter may not be a 3 down lineman and just a pass rusher but questions like that are on everyone else in this draft.
You don’t pass on blue chip prospects based on another need. This is exactly why teams fail at drafting.
When half of first round picks fail you increase the odds of failure by drafting a lesser prospect because of need.

 

[gobesmug]

If he is playing CB, he isn’t getting anywhere close to a 1,000 yards at WR. The NFL is probably moving to 18 games in the next few years. That is almost double a college season. He will get like 10-15 snaps on offense a game at the NFL level. Again, his comp is probably a much, much better Marcus Jones.

And being able to pitch and be a DH is far less taxing than playing both ways in the NFL. And who knows how long Ohtani will be able to do both before it affects him negatively.

Fair enough point and I agree with you that the physical toll would be too much to play both spots full-time.

At 10-15 snaps on offense getting 700-1000 yards isn't out of the realm of possibility.

850 yards is only 50 yards/game.

That would only be 4 catches at 12.5 ypc per game.

There is also the possibility that given the weekly matchup, you could use him more on offense and less on defense and vice versa.

Playing the Jets, more snaps at WR, playing the Dolphins, more snaps on Def. Lots of options if he can play both spots equally great.

 

[gobesmug]

Who said that?

What I’m saying is that when Matt Khalil and Aaron Donald are both on the board, and OT is the bigger need, you take Donald and find another way to address tackle that season.

Travis Hunter is clearly the best player in this draft, and the of the top 2 tackles ( Campbell and Banks) are both considered to be prospects that should go between 6-15, with the next teo( Simmons and Ersery) considered to be in the same ballpark as prospects.

To me the goal is to build a Championship team, so you do what’s best for the team long term. And I think you look at the situation come draft day and follow that basic rule.

If they end up at 2 then try to get the Raiders 1st next year and their second this year. Then at 6 take the best OT on the board, then trade back up into the first for Luther Burden WR. Addressing both significant needs, and getting another high first for next year.

If they end up at 3 then take Travis Hunter, then trade up into the first for Simmons or Ersery.

If they end up around 6 take the best OT, then once again trade back for Burden.

It all comes down to the situation, I’m not fixated on any one scenario, just what’s best given their situation. What I don’t believe in is overdrafting an OT with their first pick no matter what. Campbell is now being projected by many as a guard in the NFL, and Banks is having a so so season.

And I guarantee that everyone here will be screaming bloody murder if Wolf drafts Campbell and he can’t play tackle, or Banks and he turns out to be a bust. So be smart about it, not hyper focused on need at any cost.

I agree with you, but at 6 Jeanty would be awfully tempting if still on the board.