If Jimmy Looks a Franchise QB, Would You Trade Brady?

[Mountain_Commando]

 

[manxman2601]

Assuming Jimmy looks like a starting NFL QB in the first four games, one has to think that the minimum we'll get for him would be a (now tradeable) 3rd round comp pick. Would obviously like more, but that's not terrible.

 

[VJCPatriot]

If Jimmy looks good, we either trade him for a 1st round pick, or we extend him to a long term deal. That's pretty much the choices. Look at Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay and also Joe Montana and Steve Young in San Francisco. It's not always an either/or situation.

 

[aluminum seats]

Matt Flynn reminder.

Yeah, see that's what I mean, I don't really see that as being analogous.

Flynn had one monster game the last game of the season and Seattle was foolish enough to throw $20 million at him for that. I don't think that equals a guy who would play the first four games of the season and excel.

 

[manxman2601]

Yeah, see that's what I mean, I don't really see that as being analogous.

Flynn had one monster game the last game of the season and Seattle was foolish enough to throw $20 million at him for that. I don't think that equals a guy who would play the first four games of the season and excel.

It was only meant as a joke response to a previous post. I think Jimmy can be way better than Flynn. I don't know if he can be a franchise QB, but I think he's, at worst, an average to good NFL starter.

 

[reflexblue]

We all know that time waits for no man, and there will come a time where Brady goes. At that point, we will need a franchise QB, and when you are so strong elsewhere, they aren't going to fall into your lap.

Jimmy has a chance to shine. If, and it is a big if, BB thinks that Jimmy is a franchise QB, would you, in much the same way as SF and GB moved on from JM and BF to SY and AR, get rid of Brady and let the new era begin?

If not, Jimmy may well be gone at the end of the year, as he is due to get paid.

The option may well be watching Brady retire in a couple of years, and having a decade of useless QB's, and watching the Jets pound us!

Off to the practice squad with ya.

 

[Off The Grid]

Also this is a conversation for 2 years from now.

Funny you say that, because I've been assaulted by this "Conversation" for 8 Years.

 

[Tunescribe]

By my math, the QB franchise tag could be over $22 million in 2018. Do people actually support using that on Garoppolo and having $44 million in cap space allocated to the QB position, or am I taking this "whatever it takes" too literally?

Is it correct to assume Garoppolo would have to be franchised?

 

[Ivan]

Getting rid of the greatest player in the history of pro football while he is still playing like the greatest player of all time in the hopes his successor will become great is crazy talk imo. Many young QBs start out great only to drop off sharply once coordinators have had a year to figure them out. If Garrapolo plays well and they can get a decent first for him then do it. I believe Brady has every intention of playing until he 45 and I don't think we will see much dropoff any time soon.

The only caveat to this would be if Brady has informed Belichick that he will only play two of three more seasons, in which case I would discuss it with Garrapolo and his agent and extend him so he succeeds Brady.



Brady has done more for this franchise than any player has ever done for any franchise and he deserves to finish his career here on his terms. He won't abuse that privilege in any way. Class act who will go out with the same class he has always shown.

 

[Brit patriot]

By my math, the QB franchise tag could be over $22 million in 2018. Do people actually support using that on Garoppolo and having $44 million in cap space allocated to the QB position, or am I taking this "whatever it takes" too literally?

That is how I am reading what is being said, and I don't think that is realistic. If I have taken it too literally also, I apologise. Jimmy's contract is up next year. I can't see them letting him walk in FA if they like him, but i also can't see them paying him franchise level to sit around holding a clipboard for a bit longer.

 

[Sciz]

Is it correct to assume Garoppolo would have to be franchised?

If it's between the franchise tag or bidding against the Browns, then I'm thinking the tag might be necessary.

 

[manxman2601]

If it's between the franchise tag or bidding against the Browns, then I'm thinking the tag might be necessary.

This is the question. How many teams are in need of a starting QB next year? Browns, 49ers, Cowboys(?), Jets, Redskins (?), Bears(?), Lions (?). Any more?

 

[RobertWeathers]

We all know that time waits for no man, and there will come a time where Brady goes. At that point, we will need a franchise QB, and when you are so strong elsewhere, they aren't going to fall into your lap.

Jimmy has a chance to shine. If, and it is a big if, BB thinks that Jimmy is a franchise QB, would you, in much the same way as SF and GB moved on from JM and BF to SY and AR, get rid of Brady and let the new era begin?

If not, Jimmy may well be gone at the end of the year, as he is due to get paid.

The option may well be watching Brady retire in a couple of years, and having a decade of useless QB's, and watching the Jets pound us!

Here are a ton of caveats...

If he kicks ass the first four games...based on just that no.

If he kicks ass the first four games and TB12 experiences a serious injury (ACL, shoulder) and it's uncertain how well he will recover, yes.

If he kicks ass the first four games, TB12 has a minor injury in December and JG plays well in the playoffs, yes. He just proved it.

With all that said, it would take a minimum of 1-2 1st rounders and/or other picks to pry Brady from NE. If hes damaged goods then it'll be conditional of course.

 

[rookBoston]

Straight answer to OP. Brady will almost certainly retire as a Patriot, among the best to ever play the game at any position, in any era.

To start, Brady would retire rather than play elsewhere-- much in the mode of Jerod Mayo and Matt Light, who each might have played a few more years elsewhere, but chose for the exit. Brady has his rings, he has all the money he'll ever want, he has his family, he's devoted to Robert Kraft and, most importantly, his Legacy as an NFL legend is secure. Favre, Manning, Montana all fought to play for a few years longer than their teams needed them. Brady's motivations are different. He's already talked about his ambitions when he stops playing. Mentally, he won't cling to the sport beyond his time.

The other side of it is, unlike the Colts ownership, who disrespected Peyton Manning who had been the face and anchor of their franchise for a decade, the Pats ownership have class. And they think of Tom as their own flesh and blood. Robert Kraft was a fan before he was the owner. Belichick is as unsentimental as they get when it comes to personnel, but he is also a Historian of the sport-- Brady gets a special chapter in the book of Football in America.

As for succession planning, I think, more than likely, Brady's successor is not on the roster today.

Maybe it's Garrapolo or Brisset, but there's no reason to assume that's the case, and I'm sure BB is not thinking of them in those terms. They're on the roster today to backup Brady. Brisset provides some optionality in handling Garrapolo's impending contract negotiation. We've seen little enough from either of the kids to know if they can lead the offense and anchor a franchise.

If, hypothetically, Brady decided to quit football today, I think Jimmy would get his shot. But the starting role wouldn't be handed over to him on faith alone. I think BB would also likely signed an undervalued free agent in the mode of Ryan Fitzpatrick or Brian Hoyer and then make him successful in the system. If Jimmy rises to the challenge, great. But having someone like Fitz on the roster puts a floor under the quality of the QB play, while BB spends the time kissing a bunch of frogs to find his new franchise QB.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

No. Never.

 

[Brit patriot]

Straight answer to OP. Brady will almost certainly retire as a Patriot, among the best to ever play the game at any position, in any era.

To start, Brady would retire rather than play elsewhere-- much in the mode of Jerod Mayo and Matt Light, who each might have played a few more years elsewhere, but chose for the exit. Brady has his rings, he has all the money he'll ever want, he has his family, he's devoted to Robert Kraft and, most importantly, his Legacy as an NFL legend is secure. Favre, Manning, Montana all fought to play for a few years longer than their teams needed them. Brady's motivations are different. He's already talked about his ambitions when he stops playing. Mentally, he won't cling to the sport beyond his time.

The other side of it is, unlike the Colts ownership, who disrespected Peyton Manning who had been the face and anchor of their franchise for a decade, the Pats ownership have class. And they think of Tom as their own flesh and blood. Robert Kraft was a fan before he was the owner. Belichick is as unsentimental as they get when it comes to personnel, but he is also a Historian of the sport-- Brady gets a special chapter in the book of Football in America.

As for succession planning, I think, more than likely, Brady's successor is not on the roster today.

Maybe it's Garrapolo or Brisset, but there's no reason to assume that's the case, and I'm sure BB is not thinking of them in those terms. They're on the roster today to backup Brady. Brisset provides some optionality in handling Garrapolo's impending contract negotiation. We've seen little enough from either of the kids to know if they can lead the offense and anchor a franchise.

If, hypothetically, Brady decided to quit football today, I think Jimmy would get his shot. But the starting role wouldn't be handed over to him on faith alone. I think BB would also likely signed an undervalued free agent in the mode of Ryan Fitzpatrick or Brian Hoyer and then make him successful in the system. If Jimmy rises to the challenge, great. But having someone like Fitz on the roster puts a floor under the quality of the QB play, while BB spends the time kissing a bunch of frogs to find his new franchise QB.

Hey, As I said myself I don't know. This is absolutely moot if BB doesn't think JG is franchise level. He will have that view already, but would never tell us either way.

My point was mainly about the dearth of franchise QB's, our likelihood of not being in the top 5 of the draft, and the fact that IF you have one, you need to realise that Brady is not young anymore.

One comment earlier, and some I have seen elsewhere say that they quit supporting when Brady retires. Therefore life after Brady doesn't matter to them. For me it does as I am avid until death. Therefore having a good QB is a big thing for me, and a convo about how we get that is important.

 

[rookBoston]

Hey, As I said myself I don't know. This is absolutely moot if BB doesn't think JG is franchise level. He will have that view already, but would never tell us either way.

My point was mainly about the dearth of franchise QB's, our likelihood of not being in the top 5 of the draft, and the fact that IF you have one, you need to realise that Brady is not young anymore.

One comment earlier, and some I have seen elsewhere say that they quit supporting when Brady retires. Therefore life after Brady doesn't matter to them. For me it does as I am avid until death. Therefore having a good QB is a big thing for me, and a convo about how we get that is important.

Drafting a QB top-5 is no certainty... even top-2 is a crapshoot. Just look at the history of the draft and all the washed out QBs at the top of the first round. And Brady himself coming in the 6th.

The thing with developing a QB is that you can never know until you see them play in those definitive situations. I don't think BB knows for sure what he has in Jimmy. He knows a lot about the kid's mobility and arm strength, the patterns that he prefers, his read progression. But how can he know how Jimmy will react to a 4th and 15 obvious passing situation with the season on the line? No one can know-- there's no way to test for that in advance. Even hard to see that in practice.

Cam Newton was a stud all year, but mentally collapsed his tent during the Superbowl. Millions watched as he melted under the pressure. Not that he isn't still a legitimate franchise player, but in that moment, we all saw the ceiling of what he can be. I would take Russell Wilson's brain over Cam Newton's, because I think Russ has that special something. We've seen it.

Not sure yet how Jimmy's brain is wired.

BB finds QBs anywhere, not just in the top-5 of the draft. Cassell at the end of the draft. Hoyer on the junk heap. Jimmy in the 2nd. Brisset a bit later. I'm quite sure, it will all be okay. BB is a magician.

 

[sb1]

I don't think 4 games against at least 3 weaker teams is nearly enough of a sample size to determine if JG looks like a franchise QB.

It would depend on what they would get back of course. If a team offers the Patriots, say, their entire draft for a 39 year old Tom Brady of course they are not going to say no to that. That won't happen though.

 

[aluminum seats]

It was only meant as a joke response to a previous post. I think Jimmy can be way better than Flynn. I don't know if he can be a franchise QB, but I think he's, at worst, an average to good NFL starter.

Oh, ok. Using Flynn isn't a ridiculous example though.

But people are saying there's lots of examples of QBs playing great then not panning out...I'm just not really sure that's true. I think a quarter of a season is going to be a pretty reliable indicator of who the guys is.

 

[Tunescribe]

BB finds QBs anywhere, not just in the top-5 of the draft. Cassell at the end of the draft. Hoyer on the junk heap. Jimmy in the 2nd. Brisset a bit later. I'm quite sure, it will all be okay. BB is a magician.

Or, BB has been amazingly lucky, as defined by the GOAT falling into his lap from the sixth round and lasting 16 years.