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Idle thoughts - the "pregame" edition


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patfanken

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I have given this game a lot of thought. On Monday I started a thread about strategy and how to attack the Jags potent defense. It was typically very long, rambling, and disjointed since I was writing it very late. I was going to go back to it later and clean it up before I posted it, but there have since been two excellent threads from Nikolai and BaconG that not only made my post redundant but did it better, so I deleted it just about the time reports came out about Brady's injury. Since then I have avoided all the frustratingly predictable noise coming out of local and national media and focused my reading here. So here are my pregame thoughts

1. Brady's injury is real and relatively serious. But based on the fact they didn't bring in another QB leads me to feel comfortable that Brady will be out there on Sunday. However, I DO expect it to affect his performance in some ways. Can he take a direct snap from C? Will his accuracy and velocity be affected? Will he be able to take hits and fall without reinjuring the hand?

All these are legitimate questions that can only be answered on Sunday. I hate all the speculative crap that is being thrown around. My media tolerance level is about at 4 minutes and dropping. This injury simply " is what it is". Nothing can be done about it.

I also believe if Brady can't go or gets knocked out, people will be surprised how effective Brian Hoyer is within his skill set. He obviously can't do everything Brady does, but Josh will give him a game plan that is within his skill set and the team will be competitive with the Jags. This isn't going to be a shootout so merely competent QB CAN win

2. Amid the omnipresence of the media coverage, our defense remains a well-kept secret. Yes, the Jags present a very difficult challenge to the offense, BUT they have to score too.

I read somewhere that PFF did a side by side comparison between the Pats defense and the Jags defense based on their scores over the course of the regular season using a standard 4-3-4 alignment of starters. If you asked the question, how many Pats players had better scores, the answer was ZERO.

Now granted guys like Chung, McCourty, TFlowers, and Brown were all very close to their counterparts, but the rest weren't. So why aren't I worried? Because of something I've said many times this season. The SUM of this defense is better than it's individual parts. Over the last 10 games of the season, no team allowed fewer points than the Pats defense. You don't have to defend individual players or compare them to the great talent that is on our opponent's team. In the end, it comes down to which defense allows the fewest points. Right?

3. Game planning. (one man's opinion)

a. Offense- This is NOT going to be a fun game for the game day thread crowd, especially at the start. I think it will be prudent for Josh to come out of the gate very cautiously. Ball security and field position should be paramount in the first 2 or 3 drives. By then you can see what the matchups are vs various formations and motions, and who is winning individual battles and who's not. The Jags are a lot tough team to deal with, with the lead. It would be great to come out of the box and "fling it". just not prudent.

So those guys will have their heads exploding much like they did last week at the start of the game. Brady's injury situation makes this strategy even more important.

b. Key in that will be to determine how they intend to deal with Gronk. From some talk from Ramsey, it looks likely that when Gronk goes outside the hash Ramsey might get the nod. Inside it will be a combination of their fast LB's and S's Likely in some kind of double.

Comebacks or hooks might be good routes when he's outside. Even Ramsey will have a hard time getting around Gronk to defend those types of routes. Also, Brady can't be afraid to throw the ball to Gronk even when he's apparently covered, especially if he isn't being doubled.

c. Motions and getting in Bunch formations are a good way to free up Cooks and get him a running start into the Jags secondary. Leaving him out wide against the Jags bigger physical CB's isn't going to work if we want Cooks to have an impact in this game beyond being a decoy. The same goes for Hogan and Amendola.

d. Running the ball, especially given Brady's situation, is key. Like always, the number of the rushes are just as important as the yards gained. 25-30 would be a total we should look for. Over 30 would be better.

The Jags DL like to penetrate, so traps and wham schemes could work. More importantly, getting guys out to the 2nd level to attack their mini-OLB's should be a huge goal for that OL. The TE's ability to stay with those guys will be big. The more effective the run game is, the more open RB's will be in the passing game.

The Steeler's 2nd TE had a HUGE game last week. Wouldn't it be ironic if Dwayne Allen broke out now?

e. Defense- Again just like with the offense, I'm guessing that Patricia will go pretty vanilla for the Jags first few series to see what they will do an then adjust to what worked for them. I will be very surprised to see the Jags run game have much consistent success on Sunday, but the run defense has improved greatly since week one, and James Harrison's addition will boost it even more.

f. So I see the Pats start the game with 2 deep safeties and playing mostly zone coverages until they see what the Jags have planned. As the game moves along, I expect more blitzing, more DL stems, more man with a single high safety look.

g. Home field gives the Pats a real edge if the place is rocking, and there is no reason why it shouldn't be.

h. In a game where its possible that the defenses are controlling the action, special teams will be critical. With scoring at a premium whichever team makes a big play on ST's will create a huge edge for his team. One shank, one muff, or one missed tackle on a return can turn this game around in a moment.

i. I avoided stating the obvious but it is so important I HAVE to do it. Turnovers will ultimately dictate the winner. They are among the best in creating them, and we are among the best in avoiding them. IIRC they are +11 and we are +6. I think it will be more important to NOT turn over the ball to them, that it is to create TO's by them.

j. I was pretty disappointed in the ref assignments mostly be this crew has a history of throwing a LOT of flags. It makes me nervous. The Pats have been on the right side of some calls this season. If I'm thinking conspiracy, the NFL probably doesn't want to leave the impression that the Pats are getting all the calls, but wouldn't mind that much if the impression was that a few calls went against them. The stat that the Pats are 3-5 with this ref fills me with a bit of dread.

k. If I hear about Tom Coughlin's "impact" on this game one more time, I will scream. What a non-story. Tom Coughlin didn't cause the helmet catch or the Manningham/Eli prayer that got answered. His planning didn't allow the Giants to recover all 3 fumbles in 2011 or cause the refs to swallow 3 obvious flags in 2007. Tom Coughlin is a very good HC who led 2 very hot teams to a title but is NOT in BB's head in the least, and neither are the Giants who have been essentially irrelevant in this century EXCEPT for those 2 years.

l. I can't wait for the game to start if only because the media circus will finally be over, and I can go back to listening to something other than music or NPR longer than 4 minutes when I'm stuck in the car. ;)
 
Great post, especially all the rational expressions of concern. Brady's hand and Clete Blakeman could very easily influence this game, but we really can still win with Hoyer.

My biggest fear is definitely Blakeman. Is he not the guy who picked up the obvious holding flag against Kuechly in 2013 that ultimately cost us the game, home field, and the right to get blown out by Seattle? This scares me primarily because of how pivotal Gronk's performance will be. If mauling him is fair game and this offense makes any mistakes at all...we aren't playing in the Super Bowl.
 
This is also something I think you were getting at: the game should be decided when the Patriots have the ball, not the Jaguars. I think it's a safe bet that the Jags will score a low-medium amount. All the Patriots need is to score more than that. This is what virtually every recent Pats playoff loss has boiled down to (exception being any time we play BAL). This means no turnovers and Gronk needs to affect the game as a receiver/decoy and blocker.
 
It is refreshing to read about the game instead of hearing about TB12's thumb. As always, thank you for taking the time to break down the game. Go Pats!
 
I'm a big fan of Cooks but not so much of the possible matchup with Buoye. Cooks is going to need to beat him at the press and I'm not sure he can do that. Bouye was very impressive vs Brown last week, even with the perfectly thrown td.

If somehow Ramsey does draw Gronk and has success (we haven't seen it yet) then others will have to step up. On the flip side the Pats have so many different weapons they can beat you in other ways such as the running backs. I expect Amendola and Hogan to get open with the emphasis on Gronk and Cooks.

A lot of uncertainty regarding how this contest will go but I think in the end they find multiple gameplans/matchups that work as the game goes along.
 
I'm interested about something. Keep in mind, I didn't get to see much of the Jags/Steelers game. You said the Steelers 2nd TE had a big game? That is very interesting. What did they do exactly? Is that a game plan we could realistically follow? When open, I feel Allen and Hollister could catch some passes. Possibly Develin too. Maybe we need an unsung hero like that
 

So do we believe the DC or the player himself? Granted, Ramsey never explicitly said he would cover Gronk, but it seemed heavily implied.

To put a corner on a TE seems high risk-high reward. Worst case, you get thrown out the club. Best case is Talib vs. Graham. I wouldn't be surprised to see either approach or a mix of the two. But if they do put Ramsey on Gronk, that means they're abandoning their system to an extent and that can be exploited.
 
I'm interested about something. Keep in mind, I didn't get to see much of the Jags/Steelers game. You said the Steelers 2nd TE had a big game? That is very interesting. What did they do exactly? Is that a game plan we could realistically follow? When open, I feel Allen and Hollister could catch some passes. Possibly Develin too. Maybe we need an unsung hero like that

I definitely remember #89 Vance McDonald getting open a lot, I think down the seam which we don't see Allen try much but we do see Hollister try.
 
My only difference with your great post is to take some chances early by the Pats defense.

Maybe its based on last week's 8 sack performance but I would like to rattle Bortles confidence early to convince Blake that the Pats D is much better than the Steelers.
 
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Usually, I agree with the OP, but in this case, I think the Pats should come out of the gate in a hurry-up put these guys on their heels and make them play from behind.

I don't see that Jaguars defense as a real issue. They just coughed up 42 points and nearly 500 yards passing to the Steelers. They lost twice to the Titans who were what Shaughnessy thought they were. They gave up 44 points to the 49ers and old friend JAG. They lost to the Jets.

Two big reasons for a fast start: 1) Jimmy Garoppolo put 10 points on the board in a hurry and proceeded to bury these guys even though the Jags had a big second Q including a pick 6. Garoppolo did so with underneath stuff to TEs and a couple of tosses to running backs out of play action. 2) Burkhead, Hogan, White, Amendola, Lewis: with all five of these guys available to Brady, there's no reason not to step on the throttle from the first snap. The Jags can double Gronk all they want and tell their front to get to Brady. They can't possibly control an offense like this that will come at them from every level of the defense. Go fast.

I agree on defense. Start vanilla and let the game come to the Patriots. Bortles was the 3rd least sacked QB in the league. I'm not sure how big a deal that is in the AFC South and the fact that teams focused on stopping the run against the Jags. I'd argue that this is best secondary Bortles has seen this season. Let's see what he can do. Butler plays his best when the hot lights are on, so I see him and Gilmore having solid to great games.
 
1. I hope the Pats come out uptempo from the start. I don't know why they get away from that for long periods this season. With the smaller back 7 and a DL that doesn't substitute much it will pay dividends later.

2. I think quick misdirections will be effective. Brady in the gun looks left and then a delayed hand off to a back. Play action mid level slants. I do not think reverses, flea flickers, screens that take a long time to set up will go well against this fast D.

3. I think the Pats were going to run a lot against the Jags anyway but with Brady's injury Lewis will have a big day. I think they'll run White out of the gun a lot as well.

4. If they don't turn it over I don't think the Jags hit double digits. The Steelers were just idiots. I'd say their game plan was bad but that would be giving them the credit of having one. They went in with that usual Steeler mentality of we'll just push the other team around. They didn't and the Jags had the better game plan.

5. I agree with Ken that the TEs should have a big game. The thing that scares me about Allen is he never catches a ball cleanly. Those are the ones the Jags end up picking off. In this type of game Brady would also put it low to protect the receivers and so that balls deflected generally go to the ground. With the bad thumb I worry about the accuracy. I sprained my thumb and although it was 80% after a month it took a year to get to 100%. I was constantly dropping water bottles while cycling because of it. I didn't use the other hand because I was more worried about using the bad hand to depend on for steering by itself. A water bottle is a lot smaller than a football and I wasn't trying to chuck it 60 MPH.

6. I can see a lot of double RB looks with Brady in the gun to help chip their DL. If there's a place they have a big advantage it's their DL vs the Pat's guards.

7. I wonder if they'll run Cooks and Hogan out of the slot and Gronk and DA wide a lot to put the Jags defenders where they are less comfortable.

8. I think Van Noy has another big game as a spy and run stuffer.

9. Butler and Gilmore better have shut down games. There's really no excuse. Mediocre at best WRs and an inconsistent at best QB.

10. In watching all the media coverage it's amazing what people are talking themselves into. In a poll a Jags/Eagles SB was the one people most wanted to see. There's no way if I was an unaffiliated fan I wouldn't want Pats vs Vikings. That has the most excitement and story angles. I think it's Pats vs Eagles but that's another story. Then you have the players in studio all taking the Jags. Guys like Demarcus Ware it's pure bias. Others seem as sick as the fans of the Pats winning. I'm not saying the Jags can't win but a lot of these guys talk up that defense vs Brady and ignore the Pats defense vs Bortles even when called on it. Embrace the hate because Eagles or Vikings it will be a lot worse if the Pats win.
 
I think a big key will be to force Bortles to "make throws" particularly early. Seemed like last week the vast majority of the throws he completed were to wide open players as the play call seemed to really confuse the Steelers. Biggest example was the TD to the FB. If the Pats can avoid biting on the play action fake and make Bortles complete throws into tight windows against our secondary it seems unlikely they will be able to put together many scoring drives.
 
Usually, I agree with the OP, but in this case, I think the Pats should come out of the gate in a hurry-up put these guys on their heels and make them play from behind.

I don't see that Jaguars defense as a real issue. They just coughed up 42 points and nearly 500 yards passing to the Steelers. They lost twice to the Titans who were what Shaughnessy thought they were. They gave up 44 points to the 49ers and old friend JAG. They lost to the Jets.

Two big reasons for a fast start: 1) Jimmy Garoppolo put 10 points on the board in a hurry and proceeded to bury these guys even though the Jags had a big second Q including a pick 6. Garoppolo did so with underneath stuff to TEs and a couple of tosses to running backs out of play action. 2) Burkhead, Hogan, White, Amendola, Lewis: with all five of these guys available to Brady, there's no reason not to step on the throttle from the first snap. The Jags can double Gronk all they want and tell their front to get to Brady. They can't possibly control an offense like this that will come at them from every level of the defense. Go fast.

I agree on defense. Start vanilla and let the game come to the Patriots. Bortles was the 3rd least sacked QB in the league. I'm not sure how big a deal that is in the AFC South and the fact that teams focused on stopping the run against the Jags. I'd argue that this is best secondary Bortles has seen this season. Let's see what he can do. Butler plays his best when the hot lights are on, so I see him and Gilmore having solid to great games.

Actually, if the Pats come out in pedal-to-the-metal mode on both sides of the ball, that would break a lot of tendencies.
 
Not sure JAX can play at the same level in back-to-back weeks.

As per RJ Bell of pregame.com; since 1980, playoff teams that score 40 points or more in a single game are 5-25 against the spread the very next game. Doesn’t bode well for JAX.

Also, when a playoff underdog is -2 or more in TO margin, they less than a 10% chance of victory.

The Herd with Colin Cowherd
 
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So do we believe the DC or the player himself? Granted, Ramsey never explicitly said he would cover Gronk, but it seemed heavily implied.

To put a corner on a TE seems high risk-high reward. Worst case, you get thrown out the club. Best case is Talib vs. Graham. I wouldn't be surprised to see either approach or a mix of the two. But if they do put Ramsey on Gronk, that means they're abandoning their system to an extent and that can be exploited.
Ramsey would only be on Gronk when they use him out wide. They would never put him on Gronk when he was lined up next to the OT or even in the slot. But out wide as a Y or Z, he could definitely see Ramsey
 
Great breakdown on the strategy with some Xs and Os talk that is sorely missed around these parts the last couple days.
 
Ramsey would only be on Gronk when they use him out wide. They would never put him on Gronk when he was lined up next to the OT or even in the slot. But out wide as a Y or Z, he could definitely see Ramsey

Thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated coming from the godfather here.

Agreed on above statement. I think we see a mixture, depending where he' s at. And frankly I would prob go that way as well if Jax.

You think we'll take advantage w/ motion, audible him out etc to see if they switch or can handle that?


I thought by attacking horizontally with some misdirection, motion etc would really open up underneath. When watching Jax I noticed their LB's are further than most consistently from the los. About 6 yards away when I see 4.5-5 from most teams. Seemed to stick out.

In terms of spacing, they almost give up some easy, short yards to mobile QB weekly bc of this.

Specifically, bc Brady isn't Wilson. How do see us taking advantage of this with 2 back sets?

Have my own thoughts but I'd like to hear yours?
 
I'm curious as to what we will see from Hogan. I feel like last week he was shaking off some rust. I would expect him to improve this week. With him, he would line up out wide or in the slot, I think he is versatile enough. If they double Gronk and potentially take Cooks out, Hogan should have some opportunities. Obviously, I expect a lot from the RBs and 'Dola.
 
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