Idle thoughts - the much ado about nothing edition

[Oswlek]

A few other thoughts that I forgot to mention before.

* I was disappointed to not see Amendola just slant towards the middle on the 3rd down play by the GL. That was as easy a TD as could be. I suppose that his route could have been done to free up the other WR who seemed to go for that vacated area once Danny slipped past. Either it was an overly complex play or a basic read mistake by the WR, though I suspect the latter.

* There'd be more railing against the officials if that game meant anything. Somehow the DB was able to hit Tyms at about the 10 yard mark, hold on to him, then literally shove him out of bounds with the ball in the air. It was the ultimate trifecta of coverage penalties, yet not a flag was thrown. And then Casillas was flagged for RTP when his helmet made no contact, and Orton was neither hit in the head or even ended up on the ground. It was a total WTF? moment. These guys really need to pull their heads out of their asses.

* Vereen was going to get some healthy yardage had he broken the tackle on 3rd down, but I really wish he had just cut upfield and plowed into the defender, taking the easy 3 yard conversion.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

* Vereen was going to get some healthy yardage had he broken the tackle on 3rd down, but I really wish he had just cut upfield and plowed into the defender, taking the easy 3 yard conversion.

I had the same exact thought as you (with regard to that play). worst case, the defender would have wrapped him up and ended up throwing him to the first down mark (given Vereens momentum). I guess he just saw that extra 10-15 yards of space should he manage to get by that 1 defender.

 

[Canuck]

1: I wonder if Solder's problems stem from the lack of consistency at LG. He seems fine when Connolly is in there but struggles when Kline is there.

2: I know the Pats are game plan specific but I wish they would spend more of their time developing a good running game in the future. The problems with an inconsistent OL really effect our running game.

3: I have no problem with our receivers. It would be nice to get a true no 1 wide receiver but they don't come cheap and the ones that do have them, have no better success then the Patriots. Tyms was being thrown to by Jimmy G in training camp and preseason. Brady was working with LaFell to get him up to speed and to develop chemistry. Even with all the time spent with LaFell and him being in the starting line-up, it still took a few games for Lafell to get comfortable. Just think how much Tyms would improve if Brady was paying as much attention to him as he did to Lafell.

 

[BradyManny]

A few other thoughts that I forgot to mention before.

* I was disappointed to not see Amendola just slant towards the middle on the 3rd down play by the GL. That was as easy a TD as could be. I suppose that his route could have been done to free up the other WR who seemed to go for that vacated area once Danny slipped past. Either it was an overly complex play or a basic read mistake by the WR, though I suspect the latter.

I agree, it looked like an easy TD there. But given how Tyms ran his route (he ends up going towards the middle), I can't see how Amendola could've run into the middle too - it looked like they both ran it how it was drawn up.

 

[supafly]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I was down on LaFell without it being due to lack of recognition or being a semi-casual fan. Brandon is legitimately playing at a level he hadn't in Carolina.

I'm not sure why? As I stated, he was a 3rd round pick with a big range + excellent RZ target who continued to show progress in each and every one of his previous four years in number of catches, targets, yardage, and touchdowns.

To take it one step further, the one and only thing to really change has been the fact that he's seen more targets here, which was to be assumed in my opinion.

He progressed from 5 TDs last season to 7 TDs this season.

He averaged 17.0, 15.4, and 12.9 YPC in three previous seasons---and 12.8 YPC this year. Seems pretty consistent to me.

He has shown completion percentages of 56-57% in the past two years, which was slightly raised to around 61% this year. This too, seems to be easily explained.

Actually, through 13 games here, he was almost exactly on the same pace in targets, catches, completion percentage, yardage (within 150 or so), and touchdowns as last season....so I don't think it's that odd to assume that he'd have 20-25% better numbers with Tom Brady as his QB vs. Cam Newton.

 

[supafly]

Well sup, I don't think anything I say is going to change your opinion. However I will attempt to at least point out exactly where and why our views conflict. Fair enough?

1. You look at the back end of the WR group (Tyms, Dobson, Boyce) and see it as a weakness. I look at it and see potential development for one or more of that group. If we just look at what those 3 guys offer in a combination of size, speed and quickness, I see 3 guys who in different ways, all might turn out to be the "deep threat" people are calling for.

2. I have to wonder if we might be better off dealing with with these 3 guys who at least have some familiarity with the system and QB's, than adding another crop of new faces who will need time to adjust.

3. I think we might value "continuity" differently. I feel that giving Brady another season to work with the same group will only benefit Brady and the offense as a whole. I fully expect better play from LaFell as well with another season to work with Brady.

4. Assuming LaFell, Edelman, and Gronk are fine with you as our front line receivers, just how many targets are really going to be available to anyone else?

5. So where we ultimately disagree, is your assertion that at WR we have LaFell, Edelman and nothing else. Where I see a LOT of potential quality depth and additional skill sets that won't be greatly improved by simply adding new bodies.

6. Then we have the wild card of Tim Wright and what he might bring to the receiver table next year. BTW- Given that our #1 target is a TE, I don't think we should separate the receivers into 2 groups, when they are essentially all equally "receivers" JMHO.

9. So in the end, we currently have what amounts to 3 1000 yd receivers and at least 3 very young guys who all have show skills that COULD make them valuable assets ready to develop....plus Amendola (if the price is right) and Wright. So I have to wonder, who could be added in the draft who would make this group THAT much better that it would be worth investing high end draft capital, or a lot of cap space in the FA market. There is only one ball for every snap, Sup.

10. All that being said, I have no problem with adding low cost additions to the WR group in the way of draft picks or FA's for competition. You never know who might emerge. Just look at Chris Osowasu

All fine points, Ken. I'm just pointing out the fact that we currently have a group of (actual) WRs who don't contribute much of anything, in terms of production, or even adding a decoy factor at times.

Amendola, Tyms, Dobson, Boyce, Slater....there's FIVE right there.

I'm all for keeping 2 or 3 as "developmental" players to attempt to see some continuity, which I agree is important. Those 2 or 3 players can also offer ST value, such as the case with Tyms, Slater, etc. That said, there are still at least 1-2 actual wide receiver positions that need improvement, in case of injury + to actually show production at the WR3-WR4 positions, even if they don't see many targets in the long run. Just to give an example, our WR3 typically sees about 45-50 targets per year. While they don't produce much, there are plenty of situations where they can contribute in key times.

Just remember Rex Ryan's words in the 17-16 victory last week when he was asked why he felt the Jets have been able to play the Patriots much tougher than the majority of other NFL teams (4/5 past games have been decided by 3 points or less). He claimed that the NYJ coaches felt that the Jets CBs (which basically suck) matched up extremely well with the Patriots receivers on the outside. This allowed the Jets to dictate the defense how they wanted, while playing to the team's strengths and preying on the opposition's weakness. Just something to keep in mind, even though I don't agree with overreacting and paying someone good money to fill that role. Either way, I believe that at least 1-2 of those options need to be improved. We'll see what Belichick thinks.

 

[meatface]

I still think I would like to have the Steelers win and have them and Denver beat the tar out of each other. I would prefer to see the bengals but I can't imagine the patriots losing to the colts or Bengals.
I was also really disappointed that Cannon did not become the starting guard I had always wanted him to be

 

[supafly]

Assuming we get all our key FAs back there will not be enough cap space to get a WR that is much better than LaFell. Going through the draft will not result in a WR that will be ready day one. The only chance that I see to significantly upgrade at WR is to trade one of our 3rd/4th picks for a WR on a rookie contract. Apart from Josh Gordon who might still be a headcase I am not sure if there is anyone available that would improve our situation.

To those who dream of Andre Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald.. even if they would become available, I don't think they would take a big enough discount to fit into our budget. Again, all of this is based on the idea that we extend most of our key FAs.

Fair point, but my position is just that we need to address it by utilizing resources to attempt improvement on the depth issues---nothing more.

In other words, my argument would be to find some quality/value signings + maybe an additional draft selection, due to the fact that the 3 rookies from last year haven't seemed to work out too well.

Like I said in another thread, it's not necessarily "black and white," like many posters are attempting to make it. There's horrible value with Amendola, so right there that would free up some decent money to be used on the position. A couple of lower/middle tiered FA signings + maybe a mid-round draft pick should do it.

 

[supafly]

I still think I would like to have the Steelers win and have them and Denver beat the tar out of each other. I would prefer to see the bengals but I can't imagine the patriots losing to the colts or Bengals.
I was also really disappointed that Cannon did not become the starting guard I had always wanted him to be

I'm quickly coming around to the idea that PIT may be DEN's toughest matchup, so I agree.

I'd also love to beat the tar out of Cincinnati. I think they're terribly limited offensively.

 

[luuked]

Fair point, but my position is just that we need to address it by utilizing resources to attempt improvement on the depth issues---nothing more.

In other words, my argument would be to find some quality/value signings + maybe an additional draft selection, due to the fact that the 3 rookies from last year haven't seemed to work out too well.

Like I said in another thread, it's not necessarily "black and white," like many posters are attempting to make it. There's horrible value with Amendola, so right there that would free up some decent money to be used on the position. A couple of lower/middle tiered FA signings + maybe a mid-round draft pick should do it.

I understand what your are saying. It is just the question if we can get anyone that really upgrades the position for the money we save by cutting Amendola.

There is only so much time on each play for Brady to go through his progressions and Gronk, Edelman and LaFell are here to stay. I am not sure how much another mid level WR4 will be able to help relative to Amendola or Dobson.


While the contract Amendola got is obviously too big, I doubt that everyone appreciates the number of significant blocks he throws on a lot of plays.

If he would take a pay cut to avoid being released I'd be very comfortable with him in the role he plays right now.

Finally I am sure we will draft 1-2 WR but most probably not as early as some people here want.

 

[supafly]

I understand what your are saying. It is just the question if we can get anyone that really upgrades the position for the money we save by cutting Amendola.

There is only so much time on each play for Brady to go through his progressions and Gronk, Edelman and LaFell are here to stay. I am not sure how much another mid level WR4 will be able to help relative to Amendola or Dobson.


While the contract Amendola got is obviously too big, I doubt that everyone appreciates the number of significant blocks he throws on a lot of plays.

If he would take a pay cut to avoid being released I'd be very comfortable with him in the role he plays right now.

Finally I am sure we will draft 1-2 WR but most probably not as early as some people here want.

Great point re: the excellent blocking of Amendola. I have been a big supporter of his blocks over the past 2 yrs. Much like you, I'd love for him to come back on a lesser pact for a ST and WR depth role. We could do worse, although I think there's a need for an outside receiver at the WR3 spot, so I'd want Amendola to fill the WR4 role this time around.

 

[Kasmir]

6. Then we have the wild card of Tim Wright and what he might bring to the receiver table next year. BTW- Given that our #1 target is a TE, I don't think we should separate the receivers into 2 groups, when they are essentially all equally "receivers" JMHO.

Agree about Wright's potential. Those of you who follow Football Outsider's stats might be interested to know that he was #13 in the league in total production by a TE and (by far) #1 in production/play:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te

Gronk was #1 in total production and #7 in production/play.

No doubt part of Wright's productivity/play vs Gronk relates to Gronk drawing redzone coverage away from him, but still, he really produced when he was in there.

I think the anti-front-office crowd here doesn't want to acknowledge that Wright might have been worth trading Mankins for so tends to ignore him. I'm really wondering what his ceiling is in this offense next year.