Idle thoughts - the "GOAT" edition

[PScottman]

Fairly successfully, but what does it mean of the state of the offense in general?

Unfortunately it means things the team has routinely "saved" for the playoffs are now on tape. I don't know this, but think this is one of Ernie Adams' primarily roles - strategic longer term thinking across an entire season (think 2-3 games ahead and the playoffs).

That's one of the things that the Eagles did well against this team - they unveiled (instead of re-did) some trick plays and then executed them. The alignment game vs Baltimore is a great example - saving "tricks" against a playoff team it's really going to work against.

 

[maineman209]

And that's more like what I meant. I should have prefaced it with a 90-95% where he seems just that tick off. Vs Gronk who feels like he's been playing at 75-80% all year.

I know that Gronks hasn't looked the part this season. However, before missing his second game of the season last night, he was on pace to make at least four of his five incentives fairly easily (TDs being the only only for which he was way behind).

 

[tasmlab]

Hogan’s disappearance is puzzling. When Edelman was out it wasn’t surprising, but he’s still MIA, and I don’t think he’s hurt. Weird.

Had to look it up, but his last three games he had 78, 63 and 49 yards and is still on pace to have as many or more for the year than any other year. Maybe just a bad day at the office last night.

 

[PatsFan37]

c. Greg Bedard did a great piece on some of the differences between Rodgers and Brady and why he thinks there is no question that Brady is the GOAT. BTW- Bedard covered Rodgers for 4 years before he came here, so he got to know him up close. Since it's 3:30 now I won't get into the details, but I will if anyone is interested tomorrow.

Ken, if you don't mind doing that, I'd enjoy hearing your thoughts. As always!

 

[maineman209]

Had to look it up, but his last three games he had 78, 63 and 49 yards and is still on pace to have as many or more for the year than any other year. Maybe just a bad day at the office last night.

Or part of the game plan (Hogan running clearout/decoy). Or maybe the Packers' D was focused on taking Hogan away. Once Gronk, Michel and Burkhead are back healthy, I'm not sure how any opposing D is going to succeed by trying to take 1-2 guys away.

Of course, some weeks a guy will see a lot of action, and the next week he won't. This week wasn't Hogan's week to see action, for whatever reason.

 

[upstater1]

If you listen to the talking heads this morning ("Belichick beat Rodgers and Brady is just in the sidecar next to Belichick") they'd think the whole criticism of Patriots' coaching is crazy.

But I absolutely agree that the coaches made this game closer than it needed to be.

Some crazy things I heard this morning:

1. Rodgers had a better game until the Packers fumble (they base this on his stats, TDs thrown, and seem to totally neglect running TDs from the Patriots).

2. The great coaching kept the Patriots in the game (Patriots were ahead practically all game, the coaches screwed up a 1st and goal and kept the game closer than it should have been).

Everyone seems to have forgotten the Patriots didn't get in on 1st and goal.

I agreed with the personal foul on running into the kicker because the guy ran into the very top of the plant leg and he buckled it, dangerously. The ejection was ridiculous. But I also think that Gordon's catch early in the game was a good one, and I think a slow review would have overturned the call.

3. Everyone is exclaiming that the Patriots have never run as fast of an offense as they did on the first series. This is totally wrong. They used to do this often between 2010-2013, especially when they had Aaron Hernandez.

 

[maineman209]

3. Everyone is exclaiming that the Patriots have never run as fast of an offense as they did on the first series. This is totally wrong.

Agree. But perhaps one of the most important takeaways from last night's performance was that the first drive was by far the fastest tempo they've run this season (successfully), and that subsequent drives peppered throughout the game, though slower than the first drive, were also faster than in previous games this season.

Perhaps a good indicator of the offense having integrated the new guys (Gordon, Patterson) pretty well now, and they're beginning to hit their stride, synchronization-wise. They're getting close to being able to turn it on at will.

 

[everlong]

I know that Gronks hasn't looked the part this season. However, before missing his second game of the season last night, he was on pace to make at least four of his five incentives fairly easily (TDs being the only only for which he was way behind).

I know his numbers look good but he doesn't seem to be separating the same way and he's not getting up from hits the same way. At 29 he has taken a pounding and it's to be expected. Hopefully he can get healthy for a playoff run.

 

[sean10mm]

I think Rodgers needs to take a ton of heat he's not really getting for how lackadaisical the Packers last offensive drive was. That was some Andy Reid tier "Do a 2 minute drill in 2-3x as much time when down 2 scores in the 4th to ice your own team." You can (rightly) blame Fat Mike for that too (I mean the Andy Reid reference is right there), but the QB is still the one on the field letting play clock wind down before every snap and not audibling out of inside runs at midfield in that scenario.

Beyond that though the Packers offensive coaching is really just fundamentally dumb. They just gave the same looks over and over to the Pats D, and they were getting 5+ YPC on the ground in a game that was a dead heat until the 4th, but threw >2x as often as they passed anyway. If any QB could copy the plays the Chiefs dialed up for Mahomes in that nutty shootout it would be Rodgers, but the Packers are still trying to party like it's 2010 or something.

 

[maineman209]

I know his numbers look good but he doesn't seem to be separating the same way and he's not getting up from hits the same way. At 29 he has taken a pounding and it's to be expected. Hopefully he can get healthy for a playoff run.

Gronk's been dealing with an ankle issue since the practice week leading up to the Miami game. And, more recently, he's also been dealing with back spasms (according to reports). He was a game-time decision last night, so it seems like he was close to playing.

OTOH, the Pats have now gotten two "tough outs" without him. If he's not necessary to getting another W in TEN, it seems like it might be prudent to rest him for another game, after which he'll also have the BYE week to heal and be ready for the final run to the post-season.

 

[raduray]

Regarding the running game, particularly short yardage situations such as at the GL, I found it odd that they didn't use Develin in the FB position to lead block. That's had great success in earlier games and they seem to have strayed away from that, with ill effect.

 

[everlong]

Gronk's been dealing with an ankle issue since the practice week leading up to the Miami game. And, more recently, he's also been dealing with back spasms (according to reports). He was a game-time decision last night, so it seems like he was close to playing.

OTOH, the Pats have now gotten two "tough outs" without him. If he's not necessary to getting another W in TEN, it seems like it might be prudent to rest him for another game, after which he'll also have the BYE week to heal and be ready for the final run to the post-season.

Agreed, more or less. I don't think his back has been right all year though.

 

[maineman209]

Agreed, more or less. I don't think his back has been right all year though.

Gronk's back issue (whatever it is) didn't show up on the official injury report until the practice week leading up to the Bears game.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Gronk's back issue (whatever it is) didn't show up on the official injury report until the practice week leading up to the Bears game.

Report were that it was back spasms, at least back then.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Is it me, or have we been routinely diving into the gadget playbook a bit more than usual these last 2-3 games. Fairly successfully, but what does it mean of the state of the offense in general? Is it a way to make up for the lack of a proper ground game (seems to make the most sense)? or just giving future opponents more to think about (never a bad thing).

We've used it in the past when the situation required a comeback, but we've been doing it more when the game is neutral. Just an observation and I fully expect BB to explain it in his next presser .

Perhaps, in answer to my question, this article?

Tom Brady talked trick plays, Mike Vrabel, and the fastest Patriot on WEEI | Boston.com

During his weekly radio interview on WEEI’s “Kirk & Callahan,” Tom Brady gave some background on what the Patriots have to see before offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels calls for a trick play.

“It’s good to be an aggressive defense, but also if you get too aggressive,” Brady said, “that’s when offenses take advantage.”

That’s exactly what the Patriots did in their 31-17 win over the Packers on Sunday night. Multiple trick plays helped Brady and New England move the ball at critical moments.

 

[SEA_Pat]

Always enjoy your write-ups (typos and all), but have to take issue with what you said about Collinsworth. He's just awful; everyone is the "greatest", he'll contradict himself in the same sentence and he stuck to that horrible script that basically was designed to make this the "GOAT Bowl" while angling the discussion to intimate that Rodgers was clearly the best due to his physical tools. That continued right up until the 4th quarter, when Rodgers disappeared with the game on the line and suddenly we're talking about the disappointing Packers and their team, what's wrong with their defense and playcalling. What happened to the GOAT Bowl? What happened with the fawning discussion of Rodgers as he went 2 for 7 and 15 yards with it all on the line while Tom was marching down the field (again). I feel similarly to the poster who noted in the lead up to this game that the BS hype was making him dislike Rodgers even though there's not really much to dislike.

We bloody settled the GOAT question, it was between Manning and Brady. Brady won. It wasn't that close. Rodgers is a great player who will never achieve his potential because he doesn't have the great mind to go with it. He sees himself as the saviour who has to do something amazing to win a game. Brady sees himself as the leader of a team whose goal is to win. If handing it off to Patterson is the most efficient way for that to happen, that's what he does. If the Packers are running at 5 yards per clip, Rodgers will still look to pass first.

 

[archstanton543]

4. I would also like to tip my cap to Brian Flores for a nice job of mixing up the play calling.

That was good. However, he's responsible for not one but two too many men on the field penalties. That's unacceptable for a BB team.

 

[Hyped]

Comments:

1.) You should get some sleep, Ken .

2.) The defense is ahead of the offense at this point, IMO.

3.) Pleasantly surprised by the defense...I had them pegged to allow ~27-34ppg last night...

4.) Yup, Hogan was only targeted once...I started him in one FFL league over Duke Johnson, Jr.....I hate FFL sometimes .

5.) I think Gordon is still suffering from his hammy tweak and will be able to play faster down the stretch. Ditto for Edelman.

6.) Keep Gronk and Michel out until we go to NY for week 12.

 

[TB_Helmet]

Unfortunately it means things the team has routinely "saved" for the playoffs are now on tape. I don't know this, but think this is one of Ernie Adams' primarily roles - strategic longer term thinking across an entire season (think 2-3 games ahead and the playoffs).

That's one of the things that the Eagles did well against this team - they unveiled (instead of re-did) some trick plays and then executed them. The alignment game vs Baltimore is a great example - saving "tricks" against a playoff team it's really going to work against.

Brady addressed that in his interview today. He said they have way more gadget plays than they'd ever run. If they use one up there are four more to take its place. I think we'll be fine from that perspective.

The only thing we wouldn't want to burn unless absolutely necessary is something like we did against the Ravens with the ineligible receiver that we fool the other team into covering. That's less of a 'play' and more of a strategy. But haven't seen anything like that this year.

ETA: RelocatedPatsFan beat me to it a few posts above.

 

[TB_Helmet]

Always enjoy your write-ups (typos and all), but have to take issue with what you said about Collinsworth. He's just awful; everyone is the "greatest", he'll contradict himself in the same sentence and he stuck to that horrible script that basically was designed to make this the "GOAT Bowl" while angling the discussion to intimate that Rodgers was clearly the best due to his physical tools. That continued right up until the 4th quarter, when Rodgers disappeared with the game on the line and suddenly we're talking about the disappointing Packers and their team, what's wrong with their defense and playcalling. What happened to the GOAT Bowl? What happened with the fawning discussion of Rodgers as he went 2 for 7 and 15 yards with it all on the line while Tom was marching down the field (again). I feel similarly to the poster who noted in the lead up to this game that the BS hype was making him dislike Rodgers even though there's not really much to dislike.

We bloody settled the GOAT question, it was between Manning and Brady. Brady won. It wasn't that close. Rodgers is a great player who will never achieve his potential because he doesn't have the great mind to go with it. He sees himself as the saviour who has to do something amazing to win a game. Brady sees himself as the leader of a team whose goal is to win. If handing it off to Patterson is the most efficient way for that to happen, that's what he does. If the Packers are running at 5 yards per clip, Rodgers will still look to pass first.

I know it's unpopular but I like Collinsworth. I agree with you that when he gets into the narratives he's annoying. But from a standpoint of explaining what happens on the field and improving my knowledge of the game, he's probably the best (except maybe for Romo). Most other announcers are just like "huge play coming up here" or "The Packers are losing because they can't stop the run game" or other generic statements.

Collinsworth instead points out how the threat of Brady's QB sneak forces the LB to come up right to the line of scrimmage and prevents him from getting to White. I appreciate the little things like that. And most other analysts do the same dumb narrative stuff; maybe it's orders from above.