Idle thought...retrospective...

[RobertWeathers]

True, but then again I don't think Wilhite has the same upside that Asante had. That's not necessarily a bad thing; if he develops into a good #2, I will be pleased.

Agreed. At this point, I'd be happy with Willhite as a good #3!

I remember Asante making similar mistakes as Willhite in coverage, but Asante had better ball skills in years 1 and 2. (as indicated by the number of passes defensed).

 

[chevss454]

I'd like to think that in their second year in the league, Asante was better than Willhite. However, I think Asante benefited from a better pass rush and Rodney to help put him in better positions to succeed.

That's because, at least in part, Rodney had Samuel's back, unlike Meriweather who jumped the run too soon too often and left Wilhite on an island. The wide open NO receiver for the td comes to mind quickly.

 

[JFK]

That's because, at least in part, Rodney had Samuel's back, unlike Meriweather who jumped the run too soon too often and left Wilhite on an island. The wide open NO receiver for the td comes to mind quickly.

I agree. If Meriweather was a bit smarter, our secondary play would be way better.

 

[DW Toys]

Re: Idle thought....retrospective...

Uh, what? Wilhite and Wheatley were drafted in 2008.

I stand corrected sir. 2 years going on three.
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

Re: Idle thought....retrospective...

yea, and to continue pointing out some errors....springs signed a 3 yr contract....1 yr ago....so we have him for 2 more years

You are right but he has indicated he would like to come back for another year.
DW Toys

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Idle thought....retrospective...

You are right but he has indicated he would like to come back for another year.
DW Toys

Springs contract is manageable if he is cut. I don't consider it a bad contract.

 

[DW Toys]

That's because, at least in part, Rodney had Samuel's back, unlike Meriweather who jumped the run too soon too often and left Wilhite on an island. The wide open NO receiver for the td comes to mind quickly.

I think the key word is "playmaker". Asante had that. This is not Wheatley or Whilhite. Serviceable? (in other words JAG?) perhaps. Anyone here want to say that Wheatley was worth a second round pick? Anyone here say that Wheatley was even worth a second on Draft day? He was way overdrafted IMO. What could the F.O. have remotely seen? I agree Safety has been an issue since Rodney had health issues.

The Vikings have just two healthy or roster CBs in 2010. They have a huge need at CB. Griffin blew out his knee in the Championship game (see Welker) and Winfield has been hurt and a target at the end of 2009. I would love to have Ray Edwards DE/OLB who was scouted hard by BB. 8.5 sacks. 6'5" and 268lbs. Can play up. He is a RFA. He got a knee too but not that bad. How about we swap our #22 down to the Vikes #30 and give our 4th #119 plus Whilhite because the Vikes need a CB and consensus here appears that he is more than serviceable?
I like this kid from VA CB Chris Cook who is jumping up the boards up from a 4th. He is 6'2" and can move. (How do you stop a Colson or a Marshall with a 5'9" CB? Answer: You can't. Quick twitch my buttocks!) He can fight it out for #3 with Wheatley if we keep Bodden.
DW Toys

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Idle thought....retrospective...

In general, I like your thoughts as always. But - while I like Bodden as much as the next guy, I wouldn't go too far. If we can re-sign him for something reasonable, sure - but he did lose his starting job for few games for his play in the Denver game. This isn't Ty Law or Asante Samuel we're talking about here.

Bodden didn't start for 1 game. The Tennessee game. So, I think that you are going too far in your downplaying of Bodden.

Bodden had 1 bad game. Other than that, he was pretty damn good every week. And if he was beat, it was because of a damn perfect pass.

Bodden may not be Ty Law, but he's as good as Samuel and, in my opinion, a better tackler.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Idle thought....retrospective...

With Bodden gone we have exactly one CB. I don't know who you see as a NFL caliber CB from perhaps Butler. Wheatley and Whilhite have had three years and that is the telltale indicator. Nobody ever says it but Wheatley was and is a major bust...... but wasn't he a second rounder? He has had a series of injuries that plagued him in his college career and we overdrafted him in the second. No spin on that pick Cousins. He wasn't worth a second healthy.

Whilhite is NOT a starting NFL CB in this league.That leaves Springs who is that capable veteran so check that off. He made some plays and he has one year left on his contract. He knows the system so what the Helsinki.... How are we o.k. at CB if Bodden leaves?

These are not opinions. These are just facts.
DW Toys

They are facts, huh? I have news for you, they aren't. If they were, they'd be mentioning that Wilhite and Wheatley have only had 2 years on the Pats. Not 3. [EDIT: I saw after this post where you admitted to being wrong about them]

How do you figure that Wheatley is a major bust? You have your facts wrong about his injuries in college. He had ONE injury. His right wrist. Or are you seriously going to hold him accountable for the defective titanium rod that was put into his arm during the 1st surgery that busted on him?

Wilhite clearly earned BB's trust in being at the #2 CB position. Saying that he's not a starter when he's been there is a bold-faced lie on your part. Could Wilhite be upgraded upon? Sure. Dunta Robinson is out there. But what is the likelihood of the Pats going for him?

Your entire premise on Wheatley and Wilhite has been wrong. So, for you to claim it to be fact is wrong as well.. Seems like you have problems with most of the DBs the Pats have picked up in the past few years.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Idle thought....retrospective...

Bodden didn't start for 1 game. The Tennessee game. So, I think that you are going too far in your downplaying of Bodden.

Bodden had 1 bad game. Other than that, he was pretty damn good every week. And if he was beat, it was because of a damn perfect pass.

Bodden may not be Ty Law, but he's as good as Samuel and, in my opinion, a better tackler.

Bodden may be better in man coverage than Samuel, but he isn't as good down the field nor does he have the playmaking abilities. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Bodden back, and it would certainly stabilize the secondary. But I wouldn't want to see them go more than 16 mill over 4, or something like that. I think that'd be a fair deal for him.

Oddly enough that'd average out to the same deal as Springs, but with one more year. In hindsight, it seems like we overpaid for Springs for what he is. I was excited by the deal at the time, but I'm still not sure what his role is and why he was AWOL for a few weeks.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Idle thought....retrospective...

Bodden may be better in man coverage than Samuel, but he isn't as good down the field nor does he have the playmaking abilities. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Bodden back, and it would certainly stabilize the secondary. But I wouldn't want to see them go more than 16 mill over 4, or something like that. I think that'd be a fair deal for him.

Oddly enough that'd average out to the same deal as Springs, but with one more year. In hindsight, it seems like we overpaid for Springs for what he is. I was excited by the deal at the time, but I'm still not sure what his role is and why he was AWOL for a few weeks.

16 million over four years? Are you freaking kidding me?

Look at what Foxworth and Greer got and tell me Bodden wouldn't and shouldn't be insulted by such a pathetic offering.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Idle thought....retrospective...

I can't keep up with the position du jour of the Patriots fans. Are we now supposed to be suggesting that Bodden get megamillions because he deserves it, even though he doesn't, or are we still supposed to be angry with Wilfork because he deserves more money than the Patriots have offered him and considers being franchised an insult, the same as most players who've been tagged have felt about it?

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Idle thought....retrospective...

I can't keep up with the position du jour of the Patriots fans. Are we now supposed to be suggesting that Bodden get megamillions because he deserves it, even though he doesn't, or are we still supposed to be angry with Wilfork because he deserves more money than the Patriots have offered him and considers being franchised an insult, the same as most players who've been tagged have felt about it?

1) I'm not suggesting Bodden is worth "megamillions," but he certainly deserves as much (likely more) than Jabari Greer and Domonique Foxworth.

2) Do we know exactly how much the Patriots have offered Wilfork? I haven't seen any reports that suggest they've been lowballing him, though to be honest I haven't been paying too close attention.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Idle thought....retrospective...

1) I'm not suggesting Bodden is worth "megamillions," but he certainly deserves as much (likely more) than Jabari Greer and Domonique Foxworth.

2) Do we know exactly how much the Patriots have offered Wilfork? I haven't seen any reports that suggest they've been lowballing him, though to be honest I haven't been paying too close attention.

My post was general and not aimed at you, so I'm sorry if you took it that way. Having said that.....

If you're going to play the "he deserves what ______ made", you're not following the Patriot way.

Also, supposedly there was talk around today (rumored report of a radio host claim) that Wilfork has been offered a contract with something between $20-23 million in bonus money, but no further breakdown was given, so the numbers aren't really all that helpful.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Idle thought....retrospective...

My post was general and not aimed at you, so I'm sorry if you took it that way. Having said that.....

If you're going to play the "he deserves what ______ made", you're not following the Patriot way.

Also, supposedly there was talk around today (rumored report of a radio host claim) that Wilfork has been offered a contract with something between $20-23 million in bonus money, but no further breakdown was given, so the numbers aren't really all that helpful.

Fair enough.

I was just responding to the poster who thought 4 yr/16 million would be enough to retain Bodden's services.

I'm not sure if he'd be worth that much to the Patriots, but from his perspective I'm sure he feels that he is. So unless the Patriots are willing to offer him something in in that ballpark, it's unlikely that he stays.

I think Felger was reporting that the Patriots offered Vince 3/29 with 23 million guaranteed. Not sure if I would consider that a lowball offer, but I'm not too heavy into the financial aspects of the game.

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Idle thought....retrospective...

2) Do we know exactly how much the Patriots have offered Wilfork? I haven't seen any reports that suggest they've been lowballing him, though to be honest I haven't been paying too close attention.

He has not yet been franchised which suggests that they are at least talking to him.

In contrast, last year, they franchised Cassel on the first day they could.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Idle thought....retrospective...

He has not yet been franchised which suggests that they are at least talking to him.

In contrast, last year, they franchised Cassel on the first day they could.

That's because trade was the first choice, not the fall-back plan.

 

[slash83]

Re: Idle thought....retrospective...

Fair enough.

I was just responding to the poster who thought 4 yr/16 million would be enough to retain Bodden's services.

I'm not sure if he'd be worth that much to the Patriots, but from his perspective I'm sure he feels that he is. So unless the Patriots are willing to offer him something in in that ballpark, it's unlikely that he stays.

I think Felger was reporting that the Patriots offered Vince 3/29 with 23 million guaranteed. Not sure if I would consider that a lowball offer, but I'm not too heavy into the financial aspects of the game.

The length of the contract seems short but the money part of the deal seems a hefty amount right?

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Idle thought....retrospective...

That's because trade was the first choice, not the fall-back plan.

Thanks for the reiteration. Really, that's all anyone can assume at this point, including me; e.g., they are at least talking to Wilfork.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Idle thought....retrospective...

16 million over four years? Are you freaking kidding me?

Look at what Foxworth and Greer got and tell me Bodden wouldn't and shouldn't be insulted by such a pathetic offering.

That's how much I think he is worth. He wasn't insulted when we offered him a ONE YEAR 2.25 MILLION contract when he signed here in the first place.

4 million a year would put him around the 6th highest average per year on this team, alongside Light & Welker. He is certainly not one of our 5 best players. He probably wouldn't be one of our top 10. I think that's plenty fair.

If he's worth that much more, he wouldn't have played for 2.25 million this year. Certainly his play wasn't worth of turning a guy who had to settled for that deal and turning him into one of the higher paid CBs in the league.