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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Joey007, Oct 1, 2017.

  1. venecol

    venecol The FRG has a little **** PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yup, refs were responsible for all the dropped passes, missed blocks, poor protection, missed receivers, interception thrown, pathetic running, etc., etc., etc.

    Which game were you watching?
     
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  2. PatriotSpy

    PatriotSpy In the Starting Line-Up

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    Your post is TERRIBLE. Those bad calls were directly related to scoring.
     
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  3. venecol

    venecol The FRG has a little **** PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here you go. 17% 3rd down conversions, 33% on 4th downs, that has more to do with the loss than the refs. Yes they made bad calls (Harry scored), but it was hardly a biased game. Notice KC got 10 for 136 yds on penalties to 5 for 25 on the Pats.

    SmartSelect_20191208-235848_Firefox.jpg
     
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  4. dreighver

    dreighver 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Yeah, the whole "offense sucked, officials don't matter" argument is ridiculous.

    The offense, per the rules that govern the game, scored at least 3 - likely 4 - additional points that were not counted due to objectively incorrect decisions by the officiating crew.

    The FACT is that the offense, per the rules that govern the game, scored at least 19 points, likely 20. But those points were not counted, so how can anyone possibly argue that the officiating is irrelevant or ancillary to the Patriots offensive production?

    This was not a subjective decision. The call was objectively wrong, and per the rules of football, in a factually verifiable manner, the Patriots scored more than 16 points today.

    This is not an offense issue. On that particular play, the offense did their job and scored 6 points (likely 7) per the rules. This is exclusively and entirely an officiating issue.

    It's as if a receiver made a legitimate catch in the endzone, with possession/two feet inbounds, the play was ruled incomplete, and people argued, "yeah, the officials were bad but the offense was awful, so the officials are irrelevant". Well, no, because the offense scored legitimate points per the rules of the game, and those tasked with enforcing the rules were incorrect in their judgment(s).
     
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  5. TB_Helmet

    TB_Helmet In the Starting Line-Up Weekly Picks Winner

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    I get what you’re saying and I never like blaming the refs. I hate when fans do that because there are a ton of games where they do it and it’s not warranted and it sounds like whining. It also happens on this board a lot and it’s whiny here too.

    BUT there are occasionally some games where, despite the Pats playing badly, they still very likely would have won except for some really, really bad calls. There are probably fewer than 5 of those in the Belichick era. This was one of them. These were a series of egregious whiffs by the refs in a short timespan. There were three horrible calls and any of the three being different would have dramatically changed the outlook.

    I think it's fair to put this one on the refs. Even if the Pats didn't play that well, they played well enough to win against a very good opponent. That's why it's important to not be one of those fans who criticize the refs after every loss, because you lose credibility for times like this when it's very well deserved criticism.
     
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  6. Adam Seward

    Adam Seward Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I agree the team has looked horrendous however the officiating took legitimate points off of the board with the Harry TD and blew other critical calls that were painfully obvious.

    I never get on the refs and find it grating to read also when fans do it in a win or loss on a call here or there, but this exceeds the threshold of real time uncertainties and crosses into what the **** are we watching territory.
     
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  7. cmasspatsfan

    cmasspatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

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    The offense could have done better but its a team game, the defense held them to 3 pts in the 2nd half and the offense did enough to get back in the game and tie or win the game if it wasn't for incompetent refs. If the defense holds a team to 10 pts we only need the offense to score 11, its not hard.
     
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  8. cmasspatsfan

    cmasspatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

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    So what, they still should have at least tied the game if not for the bad calls. We get it, they didn't play great but the D did enough, or should have.
     
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  9. TB_Helmet

    TB_Helmet In the Starting Line-Up Weekly Picks Winner

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    This post was good, they're basically saying the same thing I did above (that there are bad calls in every game but these ones unduly influenced the game):

    Boger’s crew with several misfires casts a shadow over Chiefs-Patriots clash

    I didn't even notice that the refs ASSIGNED THE WRONG PENALTY YARDAGE to the Chiefs for an illegal use of hands. It should have been 10, but they were given 5. Was this noticed in the game thread? IMO this is even worse than the out of bounds call on Harry given that was just poor eyesight as opposed to, you know, the referee not knowing the rules.

    Actually, surprised that Belichick didn't pick up on that either. Does anyone have more context?
     
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  10. cmasspatsfan

    cmasspatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

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    The game should be decided on the field between the teams, all 3 phases, a mistake here or there by the refs is expected but today was a whole nother animal.
     
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  11. condon84

    condon84 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    It wasn't him that missed calls. It was his entire crew.

    Blowing that fumble dead.

    Non TD call on Harry.

    Bad spot placement on KC (bad challenge imo which caused had a bad domino effect on the Pats).
     
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  12. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Excellent ad abrsurdum simple minded thinking in this post and in other posts in this thread:
    Of course, the Patriots didn't do well in other areas so that negates the importance of officiating. Yea, sure.
    Of course, the Chiefs had a number of penalties so it wasn't fair for them either. Everyone knows the same amount of penalties are committed, called, declined in every game. It's always gonna be about 50/50. So in other games if the Patriots are flagged notably more than it affected the game? Or does officiating not matter unless you play a stellar game? Yea, sure.
    My favorite, you identify the one bad call (then segue into the total number of penalties as a counter argument. Good one). I'd point out 2 TDs taken off the board and how that directly cost the Patriots points and valuable clock. Or does clock not matter if you aren't playing well on offense and defense? Yea sure.

    You don't like calling out officiating, ok. You then work backward from there with false, glib posting, with your one genuine statement of 'it didn't cause the patriots to lose'. Officiating didn't absolutely decide this game because we don't know what would have happened, it's a theoretical now. But the officiating deducting points off the board did, factually, slant it in favor of the chiefs in a conspicuous manner. And anyone not using backward built logic actually should be appalled by that officiating. A bad, points altering call can happen but repeated egregious officiating like that shouldn't happen to or for the Patriots as it factually does cause a conspicuous slant to one team. The Patriots had 2 TDs, among other negatives, taken off the board (and notable and needed clock then used) because of egregious officiating.
    None of those statements are really in dispute except by you and those who choose to disregard the obvious. Now please go back to your excellent posts of 'I don't like whining that the officials hurt our cause' with your backward logic to prove it (such as 'they didn't play well -- with the takeaway that officiating doesn't matter)
     
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  13. Ras-IR Dowling

    Ras-IR Dowling Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The refs were responsible for blowing the whistle and taking away a fumble and a likely scoop and score because they thought the ground caused the fumble. They also were responsible for ruling the wr out of bounds when they could’ve just called the td and reviewed the scoring play if they weren’t 100% sure he was out. As well as multiple missed PIs.

    I’m not going to just say this was a bad day for this crew. This crew is consistently one of if not the worst crew in all of the football and shouldn’t be working any more games.
     
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  14. venecol

    venecol The FRG has a little **** PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not defending the officiating. Harry should have been given the TD. All I am saying is that the play of the offense was more responsible for the loss than the officiating bad calls. It is assumed that this would've happened or that would've happened as if it were a sure thing (recovered fumble going for a TD).

    How much more certain is scoring a TD on a 1st and goal at the 3 yard line? Yet, this happened after the Harry blown call:

    SmartSelect_20191209-024244_Firefox.jpg
    That's correct, they lost 8 yards on a 1st and goal at the 3! Come on guys, these are the Patriots! Other fan bases cry about these things. It's a waste of time, it won't make a difference. They had plenty of chances to win this. They didn't. Unfortunately.

    I guarantee you BB isn't focused on officiating, but why they can't score from the 3!
     
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  15. Soliel

    Soliel PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    14 points were taken away. Nothing else needs analysis
     
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  16. PP2

    PP2 Pro Bowl Player

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    Worst instance of officiating that I have ever seen in 30 plus years of being a fan of this team.

    It was so bad that @footballzebras who are pretty neutral did something they've never did before, and criticized Boger and his crew.

     
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  17. PP2

    PP2 Pro Bowl Player

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  18. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Florida Man PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, I’ve never been one to fault the refs but those two blown calls were awful. Cost the team the ability to get into OT. Boger’s crew needs to be relieved of their duty in the offseason.
     
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  19. QuantumMechanic

    QuantumMechanic Burn it all down! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    4, not 14. Both TD-eliminating mistakes were on the same possession. And NE got a FG, not zero.
     
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  20. 1960Pats

    1960Pats PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not waiting for Bill.
     
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