I Don't Get It

[BritPat]

Re: I Dont Get It

That's simply incorrect.

Not from my tv screen.

Davis himself even alluded to it after the game.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: I Dont Get It

Not from my tv screen.

Davis himself even alluded to it after the game.

Davis was being classy toward a guy that he even admitted that he was friends with before the game. I was at the Miami game and had all 22 view. "Continually blowing by Davis" is something that is totally incorrect. Did he beat him a couple of times? Yes. Did he beat him badly enough to classify it as "blowing by him"? No. Did he do it continually? Definitely not.

 

[BritPat]

Re: I Dont Get It

Davis was being classy toward a guy that he even admitted that he was friends with before the game. I was at the Miami game and had all 22 view. "Continually blowing by Davis" is something that is totally incorrect. Did he beat him a couple of times? Yes. Did he beat him badly enough to classify it as "blowing by him"? No. Did he do it continually? Definitely not.

I think your definition of blowing by him and mine are different.

I wasn't referring to him actually beating him man on man, I was referring to him going full pelt, even when it was obvious the play wasn't going anywhere near him. Several times Randy had full afterburners switched on and the play was either a draw, or a screen or even a run up the gut.

Davis had every opportunity to pile on, but he didn't, and that's largely because what Revis and The Alimony kid are different to what was actually going on.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: I Dont Get It

I think your definition of blowing by him and mine are different.

I wasn't referring to him actually beating him man on man, I was referring to him going full pelt, even when it was obvious the play wasn't going anywhere near him. Several times Randy had full afterburners switched on and the play was either a draw, or a screen or even a run up the gut.

Davis had every opportunity to pile on, but he didn't, and that's largely because what Revis and The Alimony kid are different to what was actually going on.

Fair enough. You're right, our two definitions differ very much. To me, "blowing by" somebody refers to when both of you are running your hardest and you create some real separation from them. But I'm not going to get into that. I've put people on ignore for making such pointless and dumb arguments.

 

[Water Boy]

Re: I Dont Get It

There's a huge double standard in the NFL that nobody seems to talk about.

Teams can cut players whenever they want.

But when a player asks for a raise/extension or doesn't want to play for a particular team anymore, he's the bad guy.

Would you rather see guaranteed contracts in the NFL? It would absolutely ruin the league.

In this case, the Patriots payed Moss $27 million ($9million this season) to play football. Moss signed the contract on the dotted line. Honor your damn contract.

 

[Patters]

Re: I Dont Get It

Are you saying you support Moss tanking on the Patriots so he could get traded? And as a Pat fan you aren't pissed off at him for that?

I liked Moss as much as anyone and am disappointed to see him go. (But, I remember thinking BB was an idiot for sitting out Terry Glenn during the Superbowl, thinking that without him we would not have had a chance.) Both sides operate like businesspeople. The Patriots model for all it's strengths has a downside; it teaches players to be businessmen and look out for their own interests first. The Patriot model does a better job at building professionalism than team loyalty, though it certainly doesn't do badly at the latter.

And as far as Moss tanking, the jury is still out on that. If the Pats knew he was leaving, they might have adjusted their game plan against Miami. Up until all the Special Teams achievements, BB was playing that game like the final score would be 13-10. Randy was not a central part of that offensive game plan, I felt. The Jets was a poor overall performance, and Randy did okay against the Bengals and Buffalo. Also, Randy is getting older, and has had games short of spectacular before.

 

[Iron Helmet]

Re: I Dont Get It

He didn't want to be a 35 y/o WR looking for a new contract who hadn't played in a year. If the Pats weren't going to give him a contract, he wanted to play for someone who would. I'm not going to begrudge him that: he wouldn't have foreseen the lockout when he signed his extension with the Pats, and that changed things. If the Pats had given him a better alternative, we can only guess that he probably would have been fine.

It's a business when the Pats cut a player who's under contract, and I don't hold that against the team. Likewise, I don't hold it against Moss that he has a family and a post-football career to look out for. He gave us one historic year and 2 other great ones, so I'd much rather thank him for the 50 TDs and hope the team can pull together and do fine without him.

Exactly. Well put. Considering Randy's situation, I believe he played it perfectly. He is a man of shrinking options, and is under no duty to sacrifice them for the likes of the Patriots. Likewise, for the Patriots in this situation.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: I Dont Get It

2. The more likely thing going on has nothing to do with Randy Moss's work ethic, any supposed diminished skill set, or supposedly being an under the radar locker room cancer. It's far more likely that the Patriots have made a major shift in offensive scheme/philosophy, as evidenced by the fact that they currently use multiple TE sets more than anyone in the NFL, twice as many as the next highest team. Moss is valued less by the team because of this lower reliance on the vertical spread offense. They are not willing to pay him for his value this year, and do not want to resign him. They followed the same basic process they used to justify trading Richard Seymour last year.

Casserly (the guy that broke the Brady ribs story and Spygate well before it ever became a scandal) is now reporting that there was a locker room confrontation between Brady and Moss, FWIW...

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Re: I Dont Get It

Would you rather see guaranteed contracts in the NFL? It would absolutely ruin the league.

In this case, the Patriots payed Moss $27 million ($9million this season) to play football. Moss signed the contract on the dotted line. Honor your damn contract.

Actually, I'd love to see guaranteed contracts in the NFL, and I think it'd make it a much better league, but that's a different thread. But on that note, I think a guaranteed contract would change how players worked towards new contracts.

You say he should honour his contract, but the team doesn't necessarily have to, they could have cut him or pressured him to reduce his salary. With an expiring contract and the desire for a new one, all I can say is Randy Moss is a human being.

As a fan, I'm not happy about it, but as an employee, I totally understand. Most of us don't have expiring contracts, but if you did, you'd probably be way more focused on your future than your present too. It'd be wrong of course, and unfair to your current employer. But it's not an unreasonable thing either.

 

[Water Boy]

Re: I Dont Get It

Actually, I'd love to see guaranteed contracts in the NFL, and I think it'd make it a much better league, but that's a different thread. But on that note, I think a guaranteed contract would change how players worked towards new contracts.

How would it make it better? How much could you expect from a player getting guaranteed money? Look at baseball. Time and time again players have a career year, get a 5 year $17 million dollar deal and then mail it in until its time for their next contract.

What about injuries or players who are a bust like Adaliaus Thomas? How would it be better knowing teams are stuck with overpaid underperforming players. Are you for blowing up the salary cap and risking the competitive balance that has made the NFL the most watched sport in the Nation?

Most of us don't have expiring contracts, but if you did, you'd probably be way more focused on your future than your present too. It'd be wrong of course, and unfair to your current employer. But it's not an unreasonable thing either.

As Tom Curran would say. Right isn't Wrong. Wrong is Wrong.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Re: I Dont Get It

How would it make it better? How much could you expect from a player getting guaranteed money? Look at baseball. Time and time again players have a career year, get a 5 year $17 million dollar deal and then mail it in until its time for their next contract.

What about injuries or players who are a bust like Adaliaus Thomas? How would it be better knowing teams are stuck with overpaid underperforming players. Are you for blowing up the salary cap and risking the competitive balance that has made the NFL the most watched sport in the Nation?

If there's one sport that should have guaranteed contracts, I'd argue it is football. Due to the violent nature of the game and the risk of injury on every single play, it makes a lot of sense.

As for how it could improve things, you have to think of how teams would respond to this. Obviously things would not stay the same way. There would be fewer long-term contracts, and the need for a massive signing bonus would be reduced. The last few years of a contract, which tend to be the highest money years, would force players to play out their contract.

Look at the Haynesworth deal. While it is 7 years for $100 million, it's really 4 years for $48 million, and $41 million of that guaranteed. But $36 million of that guarantee was payable within the first year and a half, and once paid out, Haynesworth has no incentive or interest in playing out the rest of the deal. If that was re-structured to a 4-year deal worth $41 million, they would have only paid him for the first year. The current system requires a huge portion of the money be paid up-front to compensate for the lack of guarantees on the back-end. In this scenario, Haynesworth has to continue to play hard to earn the full amount in the deal.

Obviously there's the concern for people dogging it after a big deal, but the big deals would be fewer and for smaller amounts if they were fully guaranteed. At the same time, there could (and should) be additional protections for the owners on these contracts, such as termination for just cause if the player refuses to honour the deal. And there would have to be scenarios where players might get cut due to deteriorating skills or injury settlements. But guaranteeing contracts wouldn't ruin football.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

Exactly. Well put. Considering Randy's situation, I believe he played it perfectly. He is a man of shrinking options, and is under no duty to sacrifice them for the likes of the Patriots. Likewise, for the Patriots in this situation.

So a player in the last year of his contract should give up on his team to get sent somewhere else, and you applaud that?

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

Are you kidding me? I've already listed a dozen people saying OPPOSITE things. You list 2 idiots on the Jets saying he "dogged" it in 1 half of 1 game as your proof that he quit on the team to get traded.

Anyway I'm tired of your act, you ignore all logic and reasoning and claim videos show something you've made up in your mind alone. Your logic is atrocious and I'm done pointing that out.

I wouild expect someone who is wrong and defending indefensable actions to think my logic is flawed. Here you have actually confirmed I am correct.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: I Dont Get It

I wouild expect someone who is wrong and defending indefensable actions to think my logic is flawed. Here you have actually confirmed I am correct.

Your logic isn't "flawed", it's HORRENDOUS.

You are accusing Moss of QUITTING on a play that he KNEW was coming to him (while in a contract year).

You use Revis/Cromartie's words about 1 half of 1 game to prove that Moss QUIT, all the while ignoring Davis' words in a MORE RECENT game that he did not dog it even while being targeted once all game.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: I Dont Get It

Is the moral of this thread that someone was wrong or in the wrong?

No, I think we are debating whether or not Moss got traded. Half the posts give reasons why he was traded and the other half say those reasons are bogus.

Me, put me on the side that says BB believed in was in the best interest of the team to trade Moss, and in fact DID trade him.

 

[USCPatriot]

Re: I Dont Get It

Your logic isn't "flawed", it's HORRENDOUS.

You are accusing Moss of QUITTING on a play that he KNEW was coming to him (while in a contract year).

You use Revis/Cromartie's words about 1 half of 1 game to prove that Moss QUIT, all the while ignoring Davis' words in a MORE RECENT game that he did not dog it even while being targeted once all game.

emoney, you are not going to be able to reason with this guy. Clearly he believes that he is always right and knows the Moss trade in & out. He knows when Moss decides to try and when he "doesn't". He might very well be Charlie Casserly. I mean, it would make sense.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

Your logic isn't "flawed", it's HORRENDOUS.

You are accusing Moss of QUITTING on a play that he KNEW was coming to him (while in a contract year).

You use Revis/Cromartie's words about 1 half of 1 game to prove that Moss QUIT, all the while ignoring Davis' words in a MORE RECENT game that he did not dog it even while being targeted once all game.

I STATED that Moss did not go 100% on that play.
I said that the day after. I also said I recognize that can be part of his game.
I didnt bring Cromartie and Revis into the discussion, I simply pointed out that to throw them out as unreliable is shaky when they have never said that about others, and MANY including Moss himself have said that about Moss.
The bottom line is that if Moss was 100% committed to this team he would be here. A moron could figure that out. BB would NEVER in a million years trade Moss in season for a 3rd round pick if he believed Moss was committed to the team. Why you can't see that I don't know, but I'm glad your are happy for Randy that his ploy to screw the PAtriots to get $$ somewhere else worked out for him.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Re: I Dont Get It

emoney, you are not going to be able to reason with this guy. Clearly he believes that he is always right and knows the Moss trade in & out. He knows when Moss decides to try and when he "doesn't". He might very well be Charlie Casserly. I mean, it would make sense.

He's debating with a half dozen different people but not really persuading anyone else. He has never criticized this management ever, and always makes threads supporting management after any big move.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

emoney, you are not going to be able to reason with this guy. Clearly he believes that he is always right and knows the Moss trade in & out. He knows when Moss decides to try and when he "doesn't". He might very well be Charlie Casserly. I mean, it would make sense.

Are you saying that Moss was giving 100% and after 3 years of making him the center point of the offense, BB decide the best role for him was to not be on the team? You can't really think that Moss was bought into this team but BB saw no value in him, can you?

 

[skinnydog]

Re: I Dont Get It

So a player in the last year of his contract should give up on his team to get sent somewhere else, and you applaud that?

So far this season Moss has been on the field for more plays than any other skill position player (beside Brady of course). So our coach continues to give the most playing time to an obvious quitter? Are you saying BB is is afraid to sit down a guy who is quitting on the team? If you are correct then Moss shouldn't have been on the field at all against Miami let alone in for the most plays.