I Don't Get It

[Patters]

Re: I Dont Get It

At the risk of starting another Moss thread, the thing I cannot understand is the pleasant attitude toward Moss. I don't understand why people who are unhappy that he is no longer here aren't plssed at the reason he is not here: Randy Moss.
His entire season to date was an attempt to not be part of this team. His production was less than half of his production level since he has been here. Isn't it obvious he quit on the team?
Moss was traded becaue he made himself unwanted on the football team. The 3rd round pick was just what someone would pay to get him instead of waiting in line for waivers.
Randy Moss was never going to give an all out effort to the 2010 Patriots. Any anger for what might have been with a productive Moss as part of this team should be directed at the cause of that failure, and it is 100% Randy Moss.

When you read about how much people liked Moss and how much of a team player he was, it makes you wonder if the media served us the wrong impression of Moss. In the end, it just may have been nothing more than a contractual dispute that the Patriots addressed out of respect for Moss or because Moss used the tools at his disposal to press for either a long term contract or a trade to another team.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

You're not really in any position to determine that.

As far as why they decided not to throw at Moss, probably a combination of "he was doubled and there were open receivers", "the Pats were in ball control mode for most of the game since the ST gave them a huge lead to work with for the second half", and "they knew they were about to trade him." Take your pick.

It wasnt just one week, his production over 4 weeks is far below any point during his Patriot career.

If he was giving 100% and his attitude was fine, why would BB just dump him?

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

When you read about how much people liked Moss and how much of a team player he was, it makes you wonder if the media served us the wrong impression of Moss. In the end, it just may have been nothing more than a contractual dispute that the Patriots addressed out of respect for Moss or because Moss used the tools at his disposal to press for either a long term contract or so that he would be traded.

I can not accept that 'out of respect for Randy' the Patriots decided to trade away and all-pro player.
I also cannot accept that Moss' production would be less than half what it normally is, and also below the level of a bad starting WR, just because the Patriots decided they didn't want to throw to a top 5 guy and would rather throw to first year players instead.

 

[Patters]

Re: I Dont Get It

I can not accept that 'out of respect for Randy' the Patriots decided to trade away and all-pro player.
I also cannot accept that Moss' production would be less than half what it normally is, and also below the level of a bad starting WR, just because the Patriots decided they didn't want to throw to a top 5 guy and would rather throw to first year players instead.

I think maybe it's bs or some sort of backstabbing by people who don't like Moss for reason or another when they claim he was giving less than 100%. He was heavily covered and it's quite possible that the Pats did not use him as effectively because they had to quickly develop a new game plan. That would certainly make sense in the Miami game, where Moss wasn't really needed.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: I Dont Get It

When you read about how much people liked Moss and how much of a team player he was, it makes you wonder if the media served us the wrong impression of Moss. In the end, it just may have been nothing more than a contractual dispute that the Patriots addressed out of respect for Moss or because Moss used the tools at his disposal to press for either a long term contract or a trade to another team.

Somewhere in between. It started out as a contractual dispute (team's fault) and ended in him getting cut because he was apparently acting like an ass (his fault). Sure, the team could have given him an extension to make him feel better. But Moss certainly shouldn't be excused for the way he acted, either. Like he says continuously, it's a business. If you understand that it's a business then you should also act like a professional. Just my two cents...

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: I Dont Get It

I can not accept that 'out of respect for Randy' the Patriots decided to trade away and all-pro player.
I also cannot accept that Moss' production would be less than half what it normally is, and also below the level of a bad starting WR, just because the Patriots decided they didn't want to throw to a top 5 guy and would rather throw to first year players instead.

Well Andy with all due respect I can accept that Bill Belichick knows the blueprint ... which is what we don't know. We can kind of guess the blueprint but we don't know it.

What we really don't know is how many plays are we not running with Moss vs how many we will run without him ... we will be finding out soon.

 

[Patters]

Re: I Dont Get It

Somewhere in between. It started out as a contractual dispute (team's fault) and ended in him getting cut because he was apparently acting like an ass (his fault). Sure, the team could have given him an extension to make him feel better. But Moss certainly shouldn't be excused for the way he acted, either. Like he says continuously, it's a business. If you understand that it's a business then you should also act like a professional. Just my two cents...

How else could have gotten what he wanted? Clearly he wanted either a long term contract or to be traded. I'm sure he indicated that early on, but when the Patriots didn't listen, what was he supposed to do? It's a business.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Re: I Dont Get It

Somewhere in between. It started out as a contractual dispute (team's fault) and ended in him getting cut because he was apparently acting like an ass (his fault). Sure, the team could have given him an extension to make him feel better. But Moss certainly shouldn't be excused for the way he acted, either. Like he says continuously, it's a business. If you understand that it's a business then you should also act like a professional. Just my two cents...

Curious as to what you mean in bolded.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: I Dont Get It

How else could have gotten what he wanted? Clearly he wanted either a long term contract or to be traded. I'm sure he indicated that early on, but when the Patriots didn't listen, what was he supposed to do? It's a business.

A three year contract could have done it. The Patriots would have had to pay him somewhere around what he was already making but, given what he's done for us, I don't think most of us would have had a problem with that if that's how it played out. As it turns out, he was already under contract and the Patriots, for whatever reason, didn't feel comfortable with paying him. What was he supposed to do? Play football. Not whine to the press about his role in the offense. Not walk away and scream racial profanities during the Star Spangled Banner (something which you, of all people, should have a problem with). Not scream at Bill O'Brien in the locker room. Not give the head coach enough headaches that he has to call him into his office.

Yes, it is a business. He apparently understands that. That's why it was surprising to see that he was having trouble acting like a professional. In all, both sides could have done more to prevent this. Both sides have blood on their hands over this one. But at least both sides have been respectful toward each other in the media afterward.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: I Dont Get It

Curious as to what you mean in bolded.

He made it clear that he wanted an extension or a new contract in the offseason. He had caught 50 TD's for us over a three year period. In order to avoid what happened, the team could have given him said extension. Instead, they chose not to. They could have avoided this entire thing. And they certainly had the money to do so.

 

[Yfz01]

Re: I Dont Get It

Because Moss played hard all season. That much was visible. Ask Vontae Davis. Don't ask the two stooges in Jets land though.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: I Dont Get It

Because Moss played hard all season. That much was visible. Ask Vontae Davis. Don't ask the two stooges in Jets land though.

Maybe you were just being sarcastic, but Davis had him blanketed all game long. A lot of the time, it was without safety help.

 

[MassPats38]

Re: I Dont Get It

I have defended the organization, but I also see Moss's side. The guy is 33 years old, got banged up last season, and is looking at a potential lock-out next season. He can watch T.O. and where his career is now and see himself without a deal. Moss is no spring chicken, so there is an urgency to getting a deal done and that simply would not happen with the Pats. Playing out the year throws him into uncertainty, far more so than the typical 20-something player.

I don't buy that his numbers over 4 games indicate he has been phoning it in with the Pats. There are lots of reasons for that, including game scenarios, vulnerabilities of opponents, etc. that would suggest 25% of a random season is a poor measure of a complete season. His performance on the field looks pretty much like typical Randy Moss to me. If you are psychologically projecting ongoing trade discussions into what you are seeing on the field, I would submit you are seeing something that simply isn't there.

Moss played for the Pats over 3 seasons and he played well. I won't hate on him for this move, any more than I will hate on the organization for doing what it did in the end.

 

[Yfz01]

Re: I Dont Get It

Maybe you were just being sarcastic, but Davis had him blanketed all game long. A lot of the time, it was without safety help.

What I meant was, Vontae Davis said Moss didn't give him a break the entire game.

I also saw a few plays where Moss was open enough to get a reception but for the most part it is difficult to get open when every route you run is 20+ yards downfield. It is equally stupid that they kept that gameplan when Vontae Davis started playing more then ten yards off of him. Throw a quick pass and let Moss get YAC for heavens sake.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: I Dont Get It

I have defended the organization, but I also see Moss's side. The guy is 33 years old, got banged up last season, and is looking at a potential lock-out next season. He can watch T.O. and where his career is now and see himself without a deal. Moss is no spring chicken, so there is an urgency to getting a deal done and that simply would not happen with the Pats. Playing out the year throws him into uncertainty, far more so than the typical 20-something player.

I don't buy that his numbers over 4 games indicate he has been phoning it in with the Pats. There are lots of reasons for that, including game scenarios, vulnerabilities of opponents, etc. that would suggest 25% of a random season is a poor measure of a complete season. His performance on the field looks pretty much like typical Randy Moss to me. If you are psychologically projecting ongoing trade discussions into what you are seeing on the field, I would submit you are seeing something that simply isn't there.

Moss played for the Pats over 3 seasons and he played well. I won't hate on him for this move, any more than I will hate on the organization for doing what it did in the end.

We'll see. If he comes out and blows the doors in on the Jets, even through double coverage, then he was mailing it in with us. If he struggles getting separation from Revis/Cromartie/whomever, then he's lost more than a step.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: I Dont Get It

OK. Thank you for the blind love of Randy viewpoint.

Just a qick question. If Moss gave the same effort this year as every other year, why did Belichick not want him around?

Why would I answer a question that is worded intentionally to mislead into believing there are only 2 options. Unless you are suggesting every single person BB has ever traded has lacked effort, then your forced questions are useless.

Ar you sayng Belichick is one of this people who did not deserve to watch him?

Obviously not.

By the way no one is crticizing the Randy Moss that was here from 07-09, but if you saw the same player on the field this year, you are not being honest with yourself.

I am being completely honest, effort did not change the 3+ years he was here.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: I Dont Get It

First of all, we don't know if Minnesota signed him for more than a year. Secondly, he was under contract here and all he had to do was be true to his word: that he was going to give it 100 percent this season and let the chips fall where they may.

He DID EXACTLY THAT! For goodness sakes, NFL players hold out in the last year of their contract ALL the damn time. Moss, a HOF player in desire of a new contract did NOT. Yet you still can't see your double standard anti-Moss bias.

He went back on his word by acting out and forcing the Pats' hand. Had he played hard this season and put up good numbers, his future would've taken care of itself, lockout or no lockout. I agree with the OP that the onus was mostly on Randy.

He did not act out nor force the Patriots hands. BB could easily have decided to keep him and let him play out the entire year with diminished statistics and left him in a crappy situation. Moss was not holding out, he was not causing a ruckus in the locker room, he was playing hard, he was taking the top off the defense. Deion Branch forced the Patriots hands, Moss did not. Of course, we can keep using the media's words as gospel and ignore the media's words that Moss was SHOCKED and IN DENIAL when he first heard of the trade. A guy deliberately attempting to get traded is not IN DENIAL when he gets traded.

I think the reason so many fans have gone easy on Moss or even blame BB/Kraft for the falling out is simply that Moss is a dazzling player and people get seduced by that. It's like the gorgeous babe who gets away with being a nasty b!tch just because she's gorgeous.

You can think what you want, and btw I'm not BLAMING anyone for this. It is simply an unfortunate situation where both sides have understandable cases and neither one is at FAULT. I don't know why people always need to BLAME someone.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

I think maybe it's bs or some sort of backstabbing by people who don't like Moss for reason or another when they claim he was giving less than 100%. He was heavily covered and it's quite possible that the Pats did not use him as effectively because they had to quickly develop a new game plan. That would certainly make sense in the Miami game, where Moss wasn't really needed.

Why would players say that about Moss but never about anyone else if they are just making it up?
Moss wasnt any more heavily covered this year than any other year.
From 07-09 per every 4 games Moss averaged:

20.8 catches
314 yards
4 TDs

This year it was
9
135
3

That is less than 45% of the catches for less than 45% of the yards that he has average as a Patriot.
Are you seriously saying that defenses just decided to cover him tighter after those 3 years?

 

[emoney_33]

Re: I Dont Get It

I dont understand how you can conclude that he gave his best effort when his production was less than half of what it has been. In fact it is very subpar for any starting WR.
The exact point is that he wasn't honoring his obligations, he did not give 100% effort.
Ask yourself this. If Moss was giving 100% why would they change he offense from one that worked, and why would they give him away in week 5 for essentially nothing? Are you really saying that the Patriots just decided that a player like Randy Moss giving his all was useless to them?

When the offense is on the field, what is BB doing? Why is it out of the ordinary to desire more ball-control focus with a young defense vs. a quick-strike offense that gives the defense less time to rest even when the offense is great at their job? Unless you believe that the longterm goal of a developing defense is meaningless and the goal should be to win now at all costs, I don't see why you would not WANT a ball control offense?

Also with actual options after Moss (and Welker), why would you NOT want to throw elsewhere when Moss is double teamed and the focal point of the defense. Why wouldn't you throw to him less?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Re: I Dont Get It

We'll see. If he comes out and blows the doors in on the Jets, even through double coverage, then he was mailing it in with us. If he struggles getting separation from Revis/Cromartie/whomever, then he's lost more than a step.

So basically no matter what happens he's in a no-win situation with you? Either he's over the hill and it was a good decision to trade, or he wasn't trying hard on the Patriots and it was a good decision to trade.

Just admit you're a Moss hater Kool-Aid drinker no matter what, and stop pretending you're being objective about this.