Howe: Pats not close to trading Gilmore

[TheRainMaker]

I thin the Mills signing might be tied to McCourty and the Safety position. Could be wrong, just get that vibe based on guys like McCourty or a guy like Slater possibly retiring at any time. Wasn't Mills moved to S in Philly from CB?

Yes.

 

[Bill Lee]

I am telling you do not trust Mills as a potential starter. JC Jackson is just a CB2 and and I think his value raises when a legit CB alike Gilmore is next to him.
IMO the best team interest is to keep Gilmore pay him a reasonable money and make our secondary a real deal.

Gilly is asking for DPOY money, not "aging CB coming off an injury" money.

Personally I don't blame Gilly, but I don't think he's gonna sign for "reasonable money".

He's already made lots of money. He'd be better off resting/healing as much as he can this season, and seeing what others will offer him for next season. If he doesn't get major dollars, then he can decide to either play for less money or do something else with his life. Signing for "reasonable money" now prevents him from seeing if there isn't a team out there that will offer him DPOY money, or something close to it.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Yes.

Ok, so when that happens, I think it means you stay at Safety. I don't think you go back. I think BB is tinkering right now anyway. Right now, Mills comes off like another version of an Adrian Phillips chess piece, but I would agree he doesn't appear to be a long term option at CB. Reminds me of Ellis Hobbs in style, but I do think he has good football IQ which is why I think it may make sense to put him maybe in a Harmon role type thing.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Yes.

JC, Jones, and Mills at CB will not cut it.

 

[Pape]

Bill probably wants a 1 or a 2 + 4 and no one is paying anything until Gilmore gets on the field.

what people want is often not what they get. A 3 three would do the trick, but is anyone really going to give up a third for half a seasons rental?

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Harmon 2.0 (similar to Phillips). Safety with coverage chops.

We literally just said the same thing. Exactly. Agree.

 

[Pape]

Pats are mixing incongruent strategies. If you were going for a ring, then sure spend big money on FA's but also should keep Gilmore happy. If you are just going for a development year because your QB is a rookie, then OK maybe move Gilmore but then also consider old vets like Hightower or McCourty, give multiple young guys a lot of snaps then at CB, LB, FS.

Right now the team spent huge money but is making Gilmore unhappy, and so this team is in a weird thing.

The team spent huge in FA to get back to par. They shed bad contracts in 2020... The influx of talent, with new contracts, gives them some financial flexibility they might not have had before because of short years left on tenured player contracts and prior bonus conversions etc...

Going forward, we are going to see some (a lot?) of veteran players like the aforementioned Hightower & McCourty possibly move on, and then there's Slater & White who will either retire or move onto other teams. With a revamp like that going forward, guys who haven't progressed beyond a one dimensional role (like baby thor) might also be on the outside looking in. Though, there is a need for role players, so I'm not too sure about that thought.

While I would like to see Gilly stay here for a few more seasons, i think this is his last season in New England.

 

[Froob]

He didn't trade Thuney because Bill tried to re-sign him during FA.

Yeah Mills is bad. Bizarre signing. Jackson is not taking advantage of his opportunity to make big money. He gets INT's against non #1's, but continues to get beat by the #1's.

Yeah but it never seemed close to happening.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

The team spent huge in FA to get back to par. They shed bad contracts in 2020... The influx of talent, with new contracts, gives them some financial flexibility they might not have had before because of short years left on tenured player contracts and prior bonus conversions etc...

Going forward, we are going to see some (a lot?) of veteran players like the aforementioned Hightower & McCourty possibly move on, and then there's Slater & White who will either retire or move onto other teams. With a revamp like that going forward, guys who haven't progressed beyond a one dimensional role (like baby thor) might also be on the outside looking in. Though, there is a need for role players, so I'm not too sure about that thought.

While I would like to see Gilly stay here for a few more seasons, i think this is his last season in New England.

Yep.

Hightower, McCourty, Slater, etc, could be in their last year here. White is likely gone after this year. Maybe not. If JJ Taylor ascends, I would say he probably is.

BB just needs to keep hitting on his drafts here to keep costs down, because they do have a lot of possibly favorable long terms deals on the books. This myth that he's not drafting well is absolutely hilarious. I look up and down the roster and see multiple names from recent drafts who are good players so far. I only expect about 3 quality players, preferably 2 key starters from each draft. I don't do this thing where I childishly think every draft pick needs to hit and be on the roster, where somehow that could happen with only 53 spots.

One step at a time, but this is the start of what 2010/2011 was, just 10 years later and by not paying your own guys in house like he did with Brady, Mankins, Wilfork, Mayo and Welker (tagged at 11.5), but importing them. But, the recipe is the same. People whined about the drafts of 2009, 2010 and 2011 early on, too, but all those drafts yielded key players to help win SBs.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

The team spent huge in FA to get back to par. They shed bad contracts in 2020... The influx of talent, with new contracts, gives them some financial flexibility they might not have had before because of short years left on tenured player contracts and prior bonus conversions etc...

Going forward, we are going to see some (a lot?) of veteran players like the aforementioned Hightower & McCourty possibly move on, and then there's Slater & White who will either retire or move onto other teams. With a revamp like that going forward, guys who haven't progressed beyond a one dimensional role (like baby thor) might also be on the outside looking in. Though, there is a need for role players, so I'm not too sure about that thought.

While I would like to see Gilly stay here for a few more seasons, i think this is his last season in New England.

I prefer if we extend Gilmore. Elite cornerbacks are more valuable than left tackles now in my opinion and they are very rare. The entire Pats man-1 cover (press) scheme which has basically been what we did for all 6 rings, does not work without an elite CB1. You saw in game1 already we're playing more of that crappy zone or CBs based 8 yards off the line of scrimmage where we simply cannot make a key stop when we need to now.

.

 

[50-yard-line]

Yeah but it never seemed close to happening.

Reportedly, they were in the fight with KC until the very end.

But KC gave him a bucket-load of $$$$$. I can only guess that BB felt they had the answer with Onwenu compared to the price.

 

[PScottman]

which has basically been what we did for all 6 rings

????????????

No. It wasn't. I'm just going to give two examples of how you're incorrect, but there are others:

2001 Super Bowl - mix of man and zone - the plan was to chip, hit, hold and otherwise stop Marshall Faulk while playing alot of inside leverage to force the Rams outside the hashes. "When New England was in nickel or dime coverage, especially in a zone, Patriots cornerbacks got in their faces at the line of scrimmage, then pushed them onto the second level, which gave them more rough treatment. Sometimes, it seemed like the Patriots were wearing the jerseys of Rams receivers. It was a gamble because the officials could have called it more closely, but they didn't."

Underdog Patriots push around Rams, pull off upset

www.baltimoresun.com

Super Bowl LIII - "As McVay noted after the game, the Patriots played plenty of zone coverage throughout the game, including quarters looks on early downs. Quarters helped the Patriots keep the intentions and depths of their safeties disguised before the snaps, while simultaneously allowing New England to flood the box with defenders to stop the run. The Pats used what amounted to a 5-1 over front with Patrick Chung as a strongside linebacker to try to penetrate into the backfield against outside zone. Here's a play -- animation courtesy of NFL Next Gen Stats -- where we see both the over front and quarters coverage behind, with Dont'a Hightower dropping into coverage and knocking away the dig route to Josh Reynolds."

Barnwell: A defensive masterpiece, and the play that won the Super Bowl

Take a bow, Bill Belichick and Brian Flores. This Pats win over the Rams was fueled by the greatest defensive performance in Super Bowl history.

www.espn.com

The Patriots don't just play one defensive style and never have. Now if you said they relied upon a #1 CB to play multiple styles allowing for a highly flexible defense - you'd have been correct, but they haven't just used #1 CBs to play Cover -1 to win their Super Bowl titles.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

2001 Super Bowl - mix of man and zone - the plan was to chip, hit, hold and otherwise stop Marshall Faulk while playing alot of inside leverage to force

Your 2 examples are bad. 2001 Pats absolutely played extremely physical man and beat up the Rams pass catchers at the line of scrimmage. Slants and in cuts, they maximized hits and pain on receivers abd basically played such physical defense Polian had to whine and get rules changed later. So... Wrong.

Also 2018, nope again. They played physical defense at the line and also stayed close to WRs at the LOS.

When the Pats play zone or soft coverage giving WRs quick slants and easy 3rd down conversions, the defense is not good.

 

[captain stone]

I am telling you do not trust Mills as a potential starter. JC Jackson is just a CB2 and and I think his value raises when a legit CB alike Gilmore is next to him.
IMO the best team interest is to keep Gilmore pay him a reasonable money and make our secondary a real deal.

Sounds good to me...but will it sound good to Gilmore?

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Your 2 examples are bad. 2001 Pats absolutely played extremely physical man and beat up the Rams pass catchers at the line of scrimmage. Slants and in cuts, they maximized hits and pain on receivers abd basically played such physical defense Polian had to whine and get rules changed later. So... Wrong.

Also 2018, nope again. They played physical defense at the line and also stayed close to WRs at the LOS.

When the Pats play zone or soft coverage giving WRs quick slants and easy 3rd down conversions, the defense is not good.

Did you not actually read the articles that were posted, written by football analysts, where it explicitly stated they were playing zone? You realize it’s possible to play physical zone coverage, right? Which is what they were doing. Zone isn’t necessarily passive, just like man isn’t necessarily physical; we’ve seen plenty of non-press man coverage through the years.

If you want to say that the Patriots defense is at its best when they play press coverage and that won them Super Bowls, that’s a fair view. But the issue isn’t between man and zone coverage. PScottman is right, they generally played mix man and zone all Super Bowl years, with 2014 being the closest to them going predominantly man out of all of them. But they absolutely were playing lots of physical zone coverage in 2001 against the Rams, 2003 against the Colts, 2004 against the Eagles, and 2018 against the Rams.

 

[captain stone]

Yeah but it never seemed close to happening.

I would've tried to move Mason's contract so there would be room to sign Thuney, then move Onwenu to RG where I think he's a better fit.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Did you not actually read the articles that were posted, written by football analysts, where it explicitly stated they were playing zone? You realize it’s possible to play physical zone coverage, right? Which is what they were doing. Zone isn’t necessarily passive, just like man isn’t necessarily physical; we’ve seen plenty of non-press man coverage through the years.

If you want to say that the Patriots defense is at its best when they play press coverage and that won them Super Bowls, that’s a fair view. But the issue isn’t between man and zone coverage. PScottman is right, they generally played mix man and zone all Super Bowl years, with 2014 being the closest to them going predominantly man out of all of them. But they absolutely were playing lots of physical zone coverage in 2001 against the Rams, 2003 against the Colts, 2004 against the Eagles, and 2018 against the Rams.

He has no idea you can press while playing zone, what pattern matching is ...

I'm not even trying to be mean but he has no idea what he's talking about. And it shows in every one of his post.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Did you not actually read the articles that were posted, written by football analysts, where it explicitly stated they were playing zone? You realize it’s possible to play physical zone coverage, right? Which is what they were doing. Zone isn’t necessarily passive, just like man isn’t necessarily physical; we’ve seen plenty of non-press man coverage through the years.

If you want to say that the Patriots defense is at its best when they play press coverage and that won them Super Bowls, that’s a fair view. But the issue isn’t between man and zone coverage. PScottman is right, they generally played mix man and zone all Super Bowl years, with 2014 being the closest to them going predominantly man out of all of them. But they absolutely were playing lots of physical zone coverage in 2001 against the Rams, 2003 against the Colts, 2004 against the Eagles, and 2018 against the Rams.

I'm aware of the sh-tty analysis that made it sound like the 2004 Pats didn't need man press defense and did it with Law hurt with smoke and mirrors. Then proceeded to go ringless for 10 years. The soft zone defense flat out sucks. To play press man cover-1 you need an elite CB1, and great FS and SS

 

[TBR]

Send him to the Bucs for a 2nd.

 

[PScottman]

we’ve seen plenty of non-press man coverage through the years.

In fact, just last weekend against the Phins where they played off-man coverages.