How to be competitive in the AFC again

[mgteich]

I think the offense is pretty close. They need a third down back, a binkie go-to WR for Mac, and minor retooling on the line.

The defense is pretty much a complete rebuild. The have a few pieces like Barmore, Philipps, maybe JC, maybe Judon, Dugger, but that's about it.

You can not function as an offense when every time you get the ball there's another score from the other team. And this was not a limited event.

And you can't win as a defense (and ST's) when the offense can NEVER win when the other team scores 25 points, 0-8 in the regular season.

 

[Boomer B]

On Offense we're not far away actually. 50% will ride on Mac making the 2nd year leap - and I believe he will.
Our OL is still solid if we bring back Karras & Brown. Draft an OT to replace Herron & Cajuste. (which will replace Wynn or Brown in 23)
Our TE's are good. I believe Smith can emerge, and don't forget about Asiasi.
RB's should keep improving. Harris/Rham are going to be a top duo. And if White returns 100% even better.
WR's are better group than given credit for. As long as Harry is gone, we'll be fine with our 3 main guys. And either Agholor takes a big step up or bring in a FA as a replacement or a true JE11 style slot guy. Maybe Wilkerson can prove more too.
To sum up: Draft OT in 3rd-4th. Draft WR in 4th-5th. Sign FA WR like McKenzie away from Bills

Nice write up but our WRs are not a better group than given credit for. We have 3 #3’s. Look at the WR groups left in the playoffs, way better than ours.

 

[captain stone]

Oh, I don't know about that. I seem to remember the Pats going 1-15 and 2-14 in back-to-back years.

Yes those teams were talent-deficient, especially at QB (hello Scott Zolak) as Grogan's career was winding down, but they were never totally bereft of it as those records indicated... They were basically a rudderless ship...

 

[libra957]

I'm more concerned with being able to compete adequately in the AFC east. We are clearly the 3rd best team, some work needs to be done to get over the hump.

 

[captain stone]

Simply put we need better personnel across the board.

And better men to coach them, especially on OL, defense & STs.

 

[Urgent]

The Pats currently hold about $20M in cap space, without JC Jackson, McCourty, Hightower, Bentley, Collins, Trent Brown, Karras, James White, Hoyer, etc.
They put a lot of money on the 2022 cap - with Agholor $15M, Henry $15M, Judon $16.5M, Jonnu Smith $14M, Godchaux $10M. That's $70M for those five; none All Pro.

So the Patriots are going to have to pare back the roster to have a chance to improve. Agholor, Godchaux, and Van Noy each offer $5M in cap savings if they are cut.

Then, as so many have said, "they need a great draft." So does every team. The Patriots had a good draft in 21, they've had a bunch of very poor drafts for the past decade, and haven't had a great one in years. So relying on "let's have a great draft" as a strategy is tough.

Is this defense the #2 scoring defense in the league? Or a defense that can't get a stop against Indy, Miami, or Buffalo - only the COVID-decimated last place Jags? There are a lot of holes to fix on defense - a line that can stop the run, speed at LB, and replacing their #1 corner and safety.

They splurged bigtime on free agency; got the sour taste of missing the playoffs while Brady won another Super Bowl out of their mouth. But constrained themselves in 2022. They have a QB who outplayed all the other rookies, and seems dedicated to improving. That's the best long-term asset. I think the best thing to do is ensure they protect and develop Mac Jones - good OL, improved WR corps - and think long-term about improving the defense.

I'd resign Brown and Karras, keep Agholor, release Godchaux and Van Noy, and accept the departures of Jackson, Hightower, Bentley, and potentially McCourty. Then focus on WR, DL, CB, and LB in the draft.

If the Pats can go 10-7 or 9-8 with this team, and a big re-stock in 2023 (26 players currently signed), that puts Belichick in position to wrest the all-time wins record from Shula in four years, as Mac establishes himself as smart, experienced, accurate QB.

 

[captain stone]

1.) our defense needs to get faster.

2.) We need to be able to stop the run

3.) we need a legit #1 receiver.

Fix those three things and we're good. QB is good and young, RB is good and young, TE are signed for a few years.

Our defense also needs At least One, possibly TWO starting-caliber Outside CBs... I wonder if Bill sees Shaun Wade as the FS of the Future...

We also need to fix the Left side of our OL.

 

[palialka]

Yes those teams were talent-deficient, especially at QB (hello Scott Zolak) as Grogan's career was winding down, but they were never totally bereft of it as those records indicated... They were basically a rudderless ship...

What?? You don’t think that ra-ra **** McPherson and Rod Rust were great coaches? Lol!

 

[FCB02062]

all this talk about defense.....but it's been the SOS for the last 3 years. folks don't think coach bill has tried to address the issues - not making stops on third down when the offense needs the ball back, getting gashed on the ground, no pass rush, difficulty vs mobile QB? they have great #s on D but vs good teams, w good QB, and competent coaches it's failure, after failure, after failure ...perhaps bills solutions aren't the right solutions....let's not forget, coach bills defense also had a historically bad game in the SB vs Philadelphia. that game let the cat out of the bag w how to beat coach bills D...
I'm at the point where I say F the D and just all in on offense because your best players are there - Jones, the backs, the line is decent....enough w the conservative crap....win on offense bc the defense is beyond repair unless there's a philosophy change/coaching change ..
also, I'm convinced 2021 Coach Bill would take a knee w 1:21 left in SB 36

 

[mgteich]

The Pats currently hold about $20M in cap space, without JC Jackson, McCourty, Hightower, Bentley, Collins, Trent Brown, Karras, James White, Hoyer, etc.
They put a lot of money on the 2022 cap - with Agholor $15M, Henry $15M, Judon $16.5M, Jonnu Smith $14M, Godchaux $10M. That's $70M for those five; none All Pro.

So the Patriots are going to have to pare back the roster to have a chance to improve. Agholor, Godchaux, and Van Noy each offer $5M in cap savings if they are cut.

Then, as so many have said, "they need a great draft." So does every team. The Patriots had a good draft in 21, they've had a bunch of very poor drafts for the past decade, and haven't had a great one in years. So relying on "let's have a great draft" as a strategy is tough.

Is this defense the #2 scoring defense in the league? Or a defense that can't get a stop against Indy, Miami, or Buffalo - only the COVID-decimated last place Jags? There are a lot of holes to fix on defense - a line that can stop the run, speed at LB, and replacing their #1 corner and safety.

They splurged bigtime on free agency; got the sour taste of missing the playoffs while Brady won another Super Bowl out of their mouth. But constrained themselves in 2022. They have a QB who outplayed all the other rookies, and seems dedicated to improving. That's the best long-term asset. I think the best thing to do is ensure they protect and develop Mac Jones - good OL, improved WR corps - and think long-term about improving the defense.

I'd resign Brown and Karras, keep Agholor, release Godchaux and Van Noy, and accept the departures of Jackson, Hightower, Bentley, and potentially McCourty. Then focus on WR, DL, CB, and LB in the draft.

If the Pats can go 10-7 or 9-8 with this team, and a big re-stock in 2023 (26 players currently signed), that puts Belichick in position to wrest the all-time wins record from Shula in four years, as Mac establishes himself as smart, experienced, accurate QB.

Yes, the team will judge whether each of Agholor, Van Noy and Godchaux is worth $5M. These decisions don't need to be made until at least draft time. My guess is that all three will be in training camp.

 

[VrabelJr]

I don’t know if you want a Bills fan perspective or if it’s still too fresh, but I wouldn’t pay JC if I were the Patriots. I keep hearing how good he is and then he routinely gets abused by Diggs for at least a couple plays whenever we play him.

I’d rather have 2 quality depth players than 1 overrated starter (for the same money).

That’s just Diggs being Diggs. The NFL “Competition Committee” has eliminated the Shutdown CB position. Which is also a reason to not pay one CB more than 15 mil a year.

 

[captain stone]

I'd agree with pretty much all of this. Like 2009 and onward though, the rebuilding D will have a lot of growing pains. Remember how it was in 2011-2013? We had the horses we were going to need, but it took time. I feel like we're already ahead of the curve with Barmore, Dugger, Judon, and (inshallah) JC. It's going to be interesting to see where things wind up.

We didn't have the horses at CB during 2011-13.

 

[‘Mondre]

Agree. Now that 2 days are past and everyone is a little bit more at peace with the loss, let's think realistically what can be done to move the needle forward.

Firstly I think we need to cut dead wood.

Collins, hightower, joejuan and nkeal Harry.

Mccourty should be a backup and not the main one. The only reason I would have him is for his leadership and the dead cap we might hit if he leaves. As a player I don't think it's of much value.

With the way our ST is performing, should we invest so many resources in ST.

Now coming to draft, get the best Nose tackle who is available when we draft.

For a change draft Wr in second / third round .

Get 2 -3 DBs in lower rounds and in UDFA and let them fight out for spots in pre season.

Now the more I think about agholor interception I feel agholor slowed as Mac's ball was not traveling that fast. He had a huge leg up over the CB. So maybe Mac goes for throwing sessions with House to bring slight improvement to arm mechanics.

Hopefully Jonnu is able to get the scheme better in second year or they limit Jonnu routes to around 20 or something that he can absorb. I believe we will see better production from Jonnu and agholor in season 2.

Get a NT who demands double coverage and paired with barmore that should be enough for offenses who try to run it down us and pair Judon with mcgrone/uche/wino on the other side. McMillan should also be back next season.

If we can retain JC J great. If not, just get 3 solid linebackers with that savings.

Yup. Going by this plan, if we hit on some of the cbs, transfer jcs money to lb help, and go ol/lb/nt with the first picks… maybe we end up younger and slightly better next year.

maybe Jonnu, agholor, Mac improve

 

[ashley]

This is a spot we really haven’t been in for the last 20 years. We can’t even get out of our division, this year it seems like we’re the 3rd best team in the afc east behind buffalo and Miami. The defense looks painfully slow and it was a mistake not to get a #1 receiver.


The 2010s patriots had success because they had offensive playmakers. At first it was Gronk and Hernandez and then it was Edelman and gronk. Defenses had to account for gronk and use up extra resources because he was that physical and could burn any safety or corner they put on him. That opened up someone in the slot like welker or Edelman to get open, they couldn’t stop both of them most of the time.


Right now we don’t have anything like that, Jonnu smith and hunter Henry were supposed to be that but it didn’t pan out that way at all. There needs to be some physicality on offense. Let’s be real, Kendrick Bourne and Nelson aghlor would be maybe 3rd or 4th options on any other team.


I think there was an improvement from 2020 because that was one of the least talented rosters we’ve ever had and that’s part of a rebuild. We need to go after a receiver in the offseason like davonte adams or Allen Robinson. Every other afc contender has that number 1 guy but we don’t. Having Bourne, aghlor and meyers and a number 1 wideout is key.



Also the defense is just painfully slow. BB needs to evolve with the game and stop using those bigger and slower linebackers. Josh Allen carved them up twice this season and twice last season and the way things panned out at the end of the year is just not the standard this franchise has 20+ years under bill and Kraft. So we need to draft a stud for the defense, maybe someone like Nakobe dean from Georgia

A few weeks ago we were the number 1 seed and the favorites to go to the Super Bowl...we had just beaten the Bills in Buffalo and everything was great!!! Then the last few games hit....

I understand there is going to be overreaction after we weren't competitive in a playoff game but where was everybody after we were the top seed in the AFC a few weeks ago? Nowhere to be found, that's where....now, do we have work to do? Yes, but we have young talent, especially on the offensive side of the ball and some good young defensive players as well. I think poster overreact after a loss, which is understandable, but it's not like we're Jacksonville or the Jets. We were a playoff team with a rookie QB, he'll get better and so will our defense.


What are some. needs in my opinion:

cb
lb
a fat body
number 1 wr

Where are we very good:

qb
rb
safety
kicker

Where do we need some tweaking, but aren't far:

wr
o-line
tight end
d-line



Just my thoughts


Ash

 

[ashley]

Yup. Going by this plan, if we hit on some of the cbs, transfer jcs money to lb help, and go ol/lb/nt with the first picks… maybe we end up younger and slightly better next year.

maybe Jonnu, agholor, Mac improve

I hope Jonnu gets used properly next year, he has talent. Agholor may not have had the stats, but just his speed a lone helps Meyers, Bourne and Hunter. Mac should get better, but as far as a rookie goes, when was the last time a rookie had a better season than Mac? I think we have a lot to look forward to with him as our future qb.....he was impressive in the playoff game.

 

[‘Mondre]

I'm more concerned with being able to compete adequately in the AFC east. We are clearly the 3rd best team, some work needs to be done to get over the hump.

Second best actually.

 

[mosi]

Said it in another thread, but this has the 2009 feel to it, with the difference being we're starting over at QB. We've got some older legends on the roster from the last dynasty, some stop gaps covering critical areas, and a need for a strong couple of drafts. We had an epic 2010 draft, and we need something like that again.

I like our QB, and we've got a lot of things going well enough for this stage of the rebuild. It's going to take time. Fan expectations probably should reflect that, but you know...we're a fickle bunch

To me, it is even worse. I mean, who on this defense is someone that absolutely you have to keep? In 2009, you had Mayo, Nick, Ty Warren and even A. Thomas had turned to 100% turd yet. Chung was new and had shown promise. Barmore maybe but beyond him, I just don't know.

 

[Steve102]

I'd agree with pretty much all of this. Like 2009 and onward though, the rebuilding D will have a lot of growing pains. Remember how it was in 2011-2013? We had the horses we were going to need, but it took time. I feel like we're already ahead of the curve with Barmore, Dugger, Judon, and (inshallah) JC. It's going to be interesting to see where things wind up.

Yeah, I think we are on the same page. One of my concerns is if they part with DMC, High, and KVN, there's no one there who's got it done at the highest level. Who do the young guys turn to?

 

[Toofy]

I hope Jonnu gets used properly next year, he has talent. Agholor may not have had the stats, but just his speed a lone helps Meyers, Bourne and Hunter. Mac should get better, but as far as a rookie goes, when was the last time a rookie had a better season than Mac? I think we have a lot to look forward to with him as our future qb.....he was impressive in the playoff game.

Agreed. I think there was an analysis which showed Jonnu ran the wrong routes on few instances and he was a bit injured . So all those factors and having elevated to a blocking role negated him.

We just need to beef up front 7 and it will look vastly different from this year. At least we have our QB. And I believe Josh will also adjust to more aggressive play calling once Mac gets the full playbook .

Mac was really impressive in playoffs. So many drops and blown coverages .

The big problem we had was too many passengers on team . It really caught up to us. We should be competitive in 2023. We would have got 8-10 playmakers from 2021,2022 ,2023 draft by then.

McMillan and McGrone should help us this year.

 

[PaulThePat]

The state of alabama wants to help us with 4 guys in this draft that could be upgrades over our current group of clunkers, provided they run well:

Williams - alabama. Pure speed.
metchie - alabama. Option route experience and experience with jones.

2 busted knees. Will either play next season? Metchie more likely as he's been out since the Iron Bowl.