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ivanvamp

In the Starting Line-Up
They were a laughingstock in THAT GAME, THEIR PLAYOFF GAME. Do you not agree? Blown out. Historically bad.

You homers could have 0-17 seasons and you'd still be talking about their "top 3" defense. How'd that great defense look in the playoffs? No stops. No punts. All TDs. Top 3 huh?

It's a conundrum, right? Because that performance against Buffalo was, I contend, the worst defensive performance of all time. Didn't get one single stop. Not even a FG. Just one touchdown after another. Moreover, Buffalo only had to convert six third downs the entire game (there was a 7th third down, but it was when Buffalo was kneeling to run out the clock at the end of the game). In other words, they cut through the Patriots so easily that they barely even had to go to third down. That's how bad it was.

Of course, as bad as that was, it wasn't reflective of how they played during the regular season. There is no defense in the history of the league that ever played worse than the Patriots did in the WC game. It was so bad it almost doesn't even "count". It was such a statistical outlier that it almost shouldn't be considered a data point. I mean, the Pats' D was HORRIFIC in the second Eagles' Super Bowl (Phi had 41 points and 538 total yards). But even then, Philly didn't score a touchdown EVERY TIME. They threw one interception, had one punt, and kicked three FGs. So that was an atrocious defensive performance but even they got SOME stops (or "stops" if you count field goals as a "stop" in quotes). What happened against Buffalo was just crazy off the charts impossibly bad that you'll never see that again in your lifetime, even when the best team plays the worst team.

I mean, here's what a "normal" HORRIFIC defensive performance looks like. When your defense allows 42 points and 552 total yards, letting the other team convert 8 of 13 third downs, and allows the other team, when you've taken the lead TWICE in the last two minutes of the game, to come back and either take the lead or tie the score immediately afterward.

Who am I talking about? Oh just the #1 ranked Buffalo Bills' defense.

The point: Even great defenses can have abysmal nights. None have ever had as bad a night as the Patriots did, but Buffalo's even HIGHER ranked defense didn't do much better this past weekend.

Who has an impervious defense? The Rams? LOL. They gave up 37 points and 465 yards to Arizona, 36 points to the Packers, and were ranked #15 in points allowed, and #17 in yards allowed this year. They were consistently...meh, though they obviously have star talent that can show up big in certain spots.

The 49ers? They gave up 33 to the LIONS this year. 30 to the Packers. 30 to the Colts. 31 to the Cardinals. 30 to Seattle. Five times they gave up 30+ points this year. That's nearly 1 out of every 3 games they were getting lit up.

I think the Patriots' defense wasn't as good as their ranking. That much should be obvious. They were missing some key people in the WC game which didn't help. Not having Jones or Mills, and then losing Bentley early in the game, really wasn't good for them. And then it was just a frigging steamroller. They do need to fix some things though, and I don't want them to ignore their needs on D.

- They need some better run stoppers. The guy I want them to get is the Jets' Foley Fatukasi. Big, strong, awesome against the run, just 26 years old, and improving against the pass. He'd be awesome here.

- They need speed at LB. Painful to watch Van Noy, Hightower, and Collins chase and be unable to make the play. I love those guys and they've been great Patriots, all contributing to SB championships, but they need guys like Winovich, Uche, McMillan, Jennings, Perkins, and McGrone to step up. At least SOME of them. And they still need to draft for speed at LB.

- They need to shore up the defensive backfield. Things get a lot dicier if they lose Jackson, as he's a premier corner. If they keep him, they still need another corner. If they lose him, then they need TWO quality corners, which is hard to get. Expect more of these guys in the draft.
 

Sciz

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
There's definitely been a change in the local media coverage of the linebacker position compared to past years. They used to suggest adding a faster linebacker to complement the guys in place, but there's now a push for faster linebackers who are worse players overall to play full time and essentially replace the whole off-the-line linebacker group. As Curran put so eloquently last week, "they might have to get younger and dumber to get faster."
 

StrawHatPatriot

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
  1. A true #1 receiver. The Pats dynasty made people think that you don't need an elite wideout, but as we've seen since then (and even before then), you need a real #1 receiver that can stretch the field and break the defense with his versatility
  2. Get faster, more athletic linebackers. Our run defense was horrific. Our linebackers were slow and old.
  3. Improve secondary. It's slow.
  4. Improve defensive line. The pads rush is non existent. That alone can win you games against QBs that are not top 4 (mahomes, Allen, Burrow, etc.)
  5. Mac Jones has to take a leap. Improve arm strength, and be more willing to throw downfield.
  6. Change up the coaching staff. I swear to God if belichick plugs in Matt Patricia if Jerod Mayo leaves...
But the issue is that that's a lot to fix in one year.... which is why 2023 is the year for us to make a real super bowl push.

I feel like we'll be outmatched this year and miss the playoffs. Bills, Bengals, Chiefs, Titans, healthy Ravens, healthy Browns, and Raiders + Chargers with improved coaching are 8 teams right there - 4 of them are guaranteed to have a better record than you, and 1 of them is in your division. The other 4 will at least match your record.

Luckily, our schedule isn't too difficult.
 

50-yard-line

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
They were a laughingstock in THAT GAME, THEIR PLAYOFF GAME. Do you not agree? Blown out. Historically bad.

You homers could have 0-17 seasons and you'd still be talking about their "top 3" defense. How'd that great defense look in the playoffs? No stops. No punts. All TDs. Top 3 huh?
It's funny how miserable people think being a "fan" means something lesser. As if being a self-professed expert critic somehow elevates you above the people who have risen to the level of actually playing or coaching the sport.

What a crappy existence.

To your (lack of a) point: they were a playoff team with a rookie QB, and on the second year of a complete overhaul. To think that makes a team a laughingstock is, in itself, laughable. The arrow is clearly pointing up.

Yeah, that game was bad - Josh Allen, when he's on, is as good as any QB in the league, and he was amazing in that game, throwing darts all night long. The other guys get paid, too. The Pats defensive weaknesses were exploited - and they were the same weaknesses we all saw here, and that most people here understood when the season started: slow LBs, no proper spy on Allen, and a depleted secondary. Anybody rooting for any of the 18 teams that was sitting home, planning for next year, and were "laughing" at the Pats is a loser.

The teams ahead of the Pats this year, for the most part, are deeper into their window of opportunity than the Pats. Bills fans had a great moment, particularly since they've had 20 years of New England misery. So give them their day - you think any of them were happy to see New England back in the playoffs already? Or to see that the Pats have very possibly already solved their QB issue? Now they're going to start losing coaches. Soon enough, Allen's big bucks start kicking in, while the Pats have a kid on a rookie deal.

It's always amazed me how so many people have such short-term memory, in life and in sports. In this case, the fans of the Patriots have just gone through an unprecedented, nearly impossible two decades of dominance in a sport with a hard salary cap, a draft system designed for parity, and the pains for the good teams of an extended, brutal season. You got to live something that will probably never happen again. And here we are, on a board filled with the miserable.

For a team that is ALREADY back in the playoffs.
 
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50-yard-line

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
It's a conundrum, right? Because that performance against Buffalo was, I contend, the worst defensive performance of all time. Didn't get one single stop. Not even a FG. Just one touchdown after another. Moreover, Buffalo only had to convert six third downs the entire game (there was a 7th third down, but it was when Buffalo was kneeling to run out the clock at the end of the game). In other words, they cut through the Patriots so easily that they barely even had to go to third down. That's how bad it was.

Of course, as bad as that was, it wasn't reflective of how they played during the regular season. There is no defense in the history of the league that ever played worse than the Patriots did in the WC game. It was so bad it almost doesn't even "count". It was such a statistical outlier that it almost shouldn't be considered a data point. I mean, the Pats' D was HORRIFIC in the second Eagles' Super Bowl (Phi had 41 points and 538 total yards). But even then, Philly didn't score a touchdown EVERY TIME. They threw one interception, had one punt, and kicked three FGs. So that was an atrocious defensive performance but even they got SOME stops (or "stops" if you count field goals as a "stop" in quotes). What happened against Buffalo was just crazy off the charts impossibly bad that you'll never see that again in your lifetime, even when the best team plays the worst team.

I mean, here's what a "normal" HORRIFIC defensive performance looks like. When your defense allows 42 points and 552 total yards, letting the other team convert 8 of 13 third downs, and allows the other team, when you've taken the lead TWICE in the last two minutes of the game, to come back and either take the lead or tie the score immediately afterward.

Who am I talking about? Oh just the #1 ranked Buffalo Bills' defense.

The point: Even great defenses can have abysmal nights. None have ever had as bad a night as the Patriots did, but Buffalo's even HIGHER ranked defense didn't do much better this past weekend.

Who has an impervious defense? The Rams? LOL. They gave up 37 points and 465 yards to Arizona, 36 points to the Packers, and were ranked #15 in points allowed, and #17 in yards allowed this year. They were consistently...meh, though they obviously have star talent that can show up big in certain spots.

The 49ers? They gave up 33 to the LIONS this year. 30 to the Packers. 30 to the Colts. 31 to the Cardinals. 30 to Seattle. Five times they gave up 30+ points this year. That's nearly 1 out of every 3 games they were getting lit up.

I think the Patriots' defense wasn't as good as their ranking. That much should be obvious. They were missing some key people in the WC game which didn't help. Not having Jones or Mills, and then losing Bentley early in the game, really wasn't good for them. And then it was just a frigging steamroller. They do need to fix some things though, and I don't want them to ignore their needs on D.

- They need some better run stoppers. The guy I want them to get is the Jets' Foley Fatukasi. Big, strong, awesome against the run, just 26 years old, and improving against the pass. He'd be awesome here.

- They need speed at LB. Painful to watch Van Noy, Hightower, and Collins chase and be unable to make the play. I love those guys and they've been great Patriots, all contributing to SB championships, but they need guys like Winovich, Uche, McMillan, Jennings, Perkins, and McGrone to step up. At least SOME of them. And they still need to draft for speed at LB.

- They need to shore up the defensive backfield. Things get a lot dicier if they lose Jackson, as he's a premier corner. If they keep him, they still need another corner. If they lose him, then they need TWO quality corners, which is hard to get. Expect more of these guys in the draft.
Great post.

Especially this:
"I mean, here's what a "normal" HORRIFIC defensive performance looks like. When your defense allows 42 points and 552 total yards, letting the other team convert 8 of 13 third downs, and allows the other team, when you've taken the lead TWICE in the last two minutes of the game, to come back and either take the lead or tie the score immediately afterward."
 

sb1

Hall of Fame Poster

LOL at these articles. Like anyone other than the writer really thinks those guys are the moves to make for the Patriots.

Also love the assumption that we would get anything more than a bag of footballs for Mac Jones in a trade. What GM would see Bill F'n Belichick dump a young QB that he just drafted and helped his team to the playoffs and not think that this means something was very wrong with that QB.
 

borg

Pro Bowl Player
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
2022 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
horrific... letting the other team convert 8 of 13 third downs....
More horrific:
Week 6 vs Dallas, the Cowboys converted 14 first downs (practically unheard of)

The ease with which Dallas abused NE's base defense was astonishing
1st and 10.....chunk play....1st down
1st and 10.....chunk play....1st down
etc
etc
etc
etc
etc
etc
etc
etc
etc
etc
etc
1st and 10...chunk play....1st down
 
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VrabelJr

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
There's definitely been a change in the local media coverage of the linebacker position compared to past years. They used to suggest adding a faster linebacker to complement the guys in place, but there's now a push for faster linebackers who are worse players overall to play full time and essentially replace the whole off-the-line linebacker group. As Curran put so eloquently last week, "they might have to get younger and dumber to get faster."
This is entirely correct which is why I like your idea of getting Demario Davis. Another option is to move Hightower OLB like Ninkovich so we can keep his smarts but reduce his liability.
 

Scotty

In the Starting Line-Up
Demario Davis from the Saints ?....that would be a good start. I think at the moment we only have 5 draft picks and quite a lot of positions scrambling for most attention. Looks like a bit of wheeling and dealing will also be required. Quite an interesting period coming up.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Demario Davis from the Saints ?....that would be a good start. I think at the moment we only have 5 draft picks and quite a lot of positions scrambling for most attention. Looks like a bit of wheeling and dealing will also be required. Quite an interesting period coming up.

Yeah if I were Bill, I would make Multiple trade-backs for extra picks during the draft, beginning with #21.
 

‘Mondre

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
“The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy “

- Sun Tzu

for us defeat (going 7, 5 wins with no core), is still very possible.

that means building the defensive core, waiting for cincy (I think they’re fraudulent) and the other peacocks to fall off, then if we know macs solid, thats you go WR in the draft.

If you have top-5 lines and defenses and an average qb, getting the #1 is the attack, the killing stroke.



That doesn’t mean ignore the offense. That means not sending trade offers that you lose draft capital on for a name. That means not ignoring a good ILB in round 1 for an ok WR
 
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mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
PatsFans.com Supporter
They were a laughingstock in THAT GAME, THEIR PLAYOFF GAME. Do you not agree? Blown out. Historically bad.

You homers could have 0-17 seasons and you'd still be talking about their "top 3" defense. How'd that great defense look in the playoffs? No stops. No punts. All TDs. Top 3 huh?
and you have a playoff team that you discuss as if they were 4-13.
 

Steve:Section 102

A lion isn't concerned with the opinion of sheep
PatsFans.com Supporter

Confused Always Sunny GIF by It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
 

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